EWR 2012 Stats Update: June ***PLEASE USE SPOILER TAGS***

[=BK=]

-I agree with raising Mil Mascara's overness to even higher. I would put him at 76.

-In turn with that I would raise Jushin Liger's overness to 75. Raise his wages to 64,000.

-Check Menacing and Fonz Factor for Junior Fatu.

-Raise Dante Dash's selling to 62.

-Raise James Bronson's technical to 68.

-Check SS Look for Sean Waltman.

-Raise Dolph Ziggler's brawl to 78.

-Raise Finlay's brawl to 85.

-Lower Lobo's brawl to 74.

-I really feel Undertaker deserves at least an 86 in brawl.

-Lower Justice Pain's brawl to 73, speed to 54, and technical to 62. Raise his selling to 75 and charisma to 56.

-Check Booker for Breaker Morant.

-Raise Abdullah Kobayashi's overness to 43. Change his gimmick to Extremist. Raise his wages to 25,000. All regular Japanese wrestlers should have a wage of at least 20,000, to account for flights, in my opinion.

I don't think Mil Mascaras is more over than Jushin Liger in all of North America. Liger's wrestled in Canada, the US, and Mexico, and he's been promoted very highly in all three. He was featured prominently in WCW during his tenure there as a multi-belt holder and Cruiserweight champ, and even though that was a decade or more ago, he's still referred to very highly... when he was in RoH, he was wrestling their champions. When he was in TNA, he was given star treatment for sure. I know Mil is a big star in Mexico, but I don't think his prominence reaches beyond that, and since Liger is known in all three countries (did some work in Canada with UWA when it was around, along with Ultimo Dragon) I think he's more well known overall on the North American scale.

Are we sure Finlay deserves 85 in brawl? I haven't watched his matches since leaving WWE, but it seems kinda high and would make him one of the absolute best brawlers in the world. At this point, I just wanna make sure we aren't basing things off old history.

I disagree with ticking superstar look for Waltman. Really, he's never looked like a superstar... He's always been very thin and even as X-Pac/his current look, he doesn't stick out whatsoever.

I agree about Taker. I'm surprised his brawl is only 81. I'd at least bump it up to around 84.

What? Mil Mascaras is most definitely more over. If you ask someone to think of a masked wrestler or a Luchadore the two people think of are Mil and Rey. Mascaras is a legend who has wrestled all over the world and has been at it since the 70's.

[Mancuerda]

Disagree with Undertaker's brawl being anywhere near 86. Maybe in his absolute prime, but today he's nowhere near that. 61 seems a lot closer to being accurate.

You shittin' me? The guy wrestles once a year and generally has the best match of the year, and it's almost all brawling. Against HHH the last two years, and against HBK the two years before that, it was a lot of brawling/psychology.

[Skummy]

I'd say Liger's more "over" in North America - Mil Mascaras is, undoubtedly, a huge star, but he's not wrestled on pay-per-view since 1997, he's not been a major draw anywhere for even longer, he just pops up part-time here and there. Liger has been more consistently used, and would be more likely to draw a crowd were he booked on a show in the US.

As for Finlay; he's one of the best in the world right now. That brawl stat is definitely deserved.

[Bill1996]

That's what I'm saying. It looks like Kirby Mack was teaming with Stoney Hooker, not TJ.

This would seem to confirm it:

Follow the real Stan Stansky right here -------> @StoneyHooker Because Arthur Rosenberg says so! #Arthur316

— Kirby Mack, or Not. (@NotKirbyMack)

June 5, 2012

Follow the real Stan Stansky right here -------> @StoneyHooker Because Arthur Rosenberg says so! #Arthur316

I've also just read that Kamala has had both of his legs amputated in recent months. Obviously, this means he can't wrestle anymore, but his Wiki page states that "Since 1993, he has been writing, performing, and producing his own music. He has written over 100 songs." The question is, should we make him a staff member (under production) or just remove him from the game entirely?

-Bill

Edited June 6, 2012 by Bill1996

[Guest The Phenomenal Red]

I'd say Liger's more "over" in North America - Mil Mascaras is, undoubtedly, a huge star, but he's not wrestled on pay-per-view since 1997, he's not been a major draw anywhere for even longer, he just pops up part-time here and there. Liger has been more consistently used, and would be more likely to draw a crowd were he booked on a show in the US.

Jushin Liger is a bigger draw in America while Mil Mascaras is bigger draw in Mexico. I would say make them equals.

[RandomnessX100]

I'd remove him.

[Guest mr. potato head]

Disagree with Undertaker's brawl being anywhere near 86. Maybe in his absolute prime, but today he's nowhere near that. 61 seems a lot closer to being accurate.

You shittin' me? The guy wrestles once a year and generally has the best match of the year, and it's almost all brawling. Against HHH the last two years, and against HBK the two years before that, it was a lot of brawling/psychology.

The Taker/HHH matches were as good as they were due to overness more than anything - put two nobodies in a mirror image of either of those matches and people would have been shitting all over them.

[KrisClassic]

-I agree with raising Mil Mascara's overness to even higher. I would put him at 76.

-In turn with that I would raise Jushin Liger's overness to 75. Raise his wages to 64,000.

-Check Menacing and Fonz Factor for Junior Fatu.

-Raise Dante Dash's selling to 62.

-Raise James Bronson's technical to 68.

-Check SS Look for Sean Waltman.

-Raise Dolph Ziggler's brawl to 78.

-Raise Finlay's brawl to 85.

-Lower Lobo's brawl to 74.

-I really feel Undertaker deserves at least an 86 in brawl.

-Lower Justice Pain's brawl to 73, speed to 54, and technical to 62. Raise his selling to 75 and charisma to 56.

-Check Booker for Breaker Morant.

-Raise Abdullah Kobayashi's overness to 43. Change his gimmick to Extremist. Raise his wages to 25,000. All regular Japanese wrestlers should have a wage of at least 20,000, to account for flights, in my opinion.

I don't think Mil Mascaras is more over than Jushin Liger in all of North America. Liger's wrestled in Canada, the US, and Mexico, and he's been promoted very highly in all three. He was featured prominently in WCW during his tenure there as a multi-belt holder and Cruiserweight champ, and even though that was a decade or more ago, he's still referred to very highly... when he was in RoH, he was wrestling their champions. When he was in TNA, he was given star treatment for sure. I know Mil is a big star in Mexico, but I don't think his prominence reaches beyond that, and since Liger is known in all three countries (did some work in Canada with UWA when it was around, along with Ultimo Dragon) I think he's more well known overall on the North American scale.

Are we sure Finlay deserves 85 in brawl? I haven't watched his matches since leaving WWE, but it seems kinda high and would make him one of the absolute best brawlers in the world. At this point, I just wanna make sure we aren't basing things off old history.

I disagree with ticking superstar look for Waltman. Really, he's never looked like a superstar... He's always been very thin and even as X-Pac/his current look, he doesn't stick out whatsoever.

I agree about Taker. I'm surprised his brawl is only 81. I'd at least bump it up to around 84.

I'm fine as to whatever the consensus is for Liger and Mascaras. Both deserve somewhere in the mid 70s.

Finlay absolutely deserves 85 in brawl. He is one of the best brawlers in the world today, easily.

Someone posted a picture of Waltman a few updates ago and he was completely ripped and definitely deserving of SS Look.

Disagree with Undertaker's brawl being anywhere near 86. Maybe in his absolute prime, but today he's nowhere near that. 61 seems a lot closer to being accurate.

You shittin' me? The guy wrestles once a year and generally has the best match of the year, and it's almost all brawling. Against HHH the last two years, and against HBK the two years before that, it was a lot of brawling/psychology.

The notion of his brawl being lowered is ridiculous. His last few matches have all been considered one of the best (if not the best) matches of the year. His brawl-related psychology is top notch, the best probably since Terry Funk, and his actual strikes and moveset are just as good.

[Lineker]

His last few matches have all been considered one of the best (if not the best) matches of the year.

No they haven't.

[Guest The Phenomenal Red]

Disagree with Undertaker's brawl being anywhere near 86. Maybe in his absolute prime, but today he's nowhere near that. 61 seems a lot closer to being accurate.

You shittin' me? The guy wrestles once a year and generally has the best match of the year, and it's almost all brawling. Against HHH the last two years, and against HBK the two years before that, it was a lot of brawling/psychology.

The notion of his brawl being lowered is ridiculous. His last few matches have all been considered one of the best (if not the best) matches of the year. His brawl-related psychology is top notch, the best probably since Terry Funk, and his actual strikes and moveset are just as good.

Wasn't he sluggish at WrestleMania 27?

[KrisClassic]

His last few matches have all been considered one of the best (if not the best) matches of the year.

No they haven't.

Undertaker's matches with Shawn Michaels weren't both considered MOTYC, if not MOTY? Same with Triple H? You are flat out lying if you are trying to say they weren't critically acclaimed.

BTW, given Michael Cole's match on Raw last night, he definitely should remain in game as a worker.

-Raise Ultimo Dragon's overness to 68.

-Raise Jun Akiyama's brawl to 64.

-Raise KENSO's brawl to 67, speed to 45, technical to 42, selling to 74, and charisma to 61. Change his secondary finisher to Diving Knee Drop (Ground). Lower his overness to 54.

-Raise Icarus' brawl to 59.

-Raise TAKA Michinoku's brawl to 64 and technical to 83. Lower his speed to 76. Lower his wages to $68,000.

-Raise Prince Devitt's speed to 77 and technical to 89. Raise his wages to $24,000.

Edited June 6, 2012 by KrisClassic

[Lineker]

You forgot the part where they were slow, mastabatory self-wankfests.

[KrisClassic]

You forgot the part where they were slow, mastabatory self-wankfests.

Since when are slow-paced matches necessarily bad? They took their time and told a story. Nothing wrong with that. Taker/Michaels I and II were both phenomenal, Taker/Trips I was good, Taker/Trips II also falls in the category of phenomenal in my book. And I know I'm not the only one to think so.

Edited June 6, 2012 by KrisClassic

[Lineker]

There's nothing wrong with slow-paced matches. These ones were just particularly bad. And I know I'm not the only one to think so.

[KrisClassic]

There's nothing wrong with slow-paced matches. These ones were just particularly bad. And I know I'm not the only one to think so.

You are honestly saying that Undertaker/Shawn Michaels I and II are bad matches?

[Adam]

Lineker, got to say I disagree with you by and large. The Taker - HBK matches were excellent. Taker - HHH this year, his most recent match, was also fantastic.

[Lineker]

Yes. Yes I am.

[KrisClassic]

Yes. Yes I am.

I'm not going to bother wasting my time on a ridiculous argument. The matches speak for themselves.

[=BK=]

Yes. Yes I am.

Then I guess all that can be said is that you're wrong? I can see why some people dislike the Triple H matches but there is no arguing the HBK matches, they were fantastic.

[Lineker]

That we can agree on (Y)