EWR 2012 Stats Update: July ***PLEASE USE SPOILER TAGS***

[conker8]

Team 720's suggestions:

Charisma

Agree with all the changes in Charisma for 90+ (exception: Ric Flair - Hogan at 96 is good)

For 80+, agree as well especially Swagger at 80 (exceptions: Kingston and Ambrose)

IMO Abyss could be raise to 80 - his segments as Joseph Parks are entertaining and he plays his character great. Overness as well at 80.

Paul Heyman : I always rate him higher. You are talking about Slater being an annoying guy, Paul Heyman is the master in this domain. Great talker, IMO he is 93/94.

Alberto Del Rio : I never found him entertaining, annoying or charismatic. To me, his promos are insignifiants. He has some trouble with English too. (I concede that his facial expressions are great).

And what do you think about Ryder, Truth and Marella 's charisma?

They are comedy wrestlers, some skits are funny but I don't find them charismatic especially Ryder.

IMO Truth is 87, Marella 86 and Ryder 84.

Brawl

I'm with Kris in that.

So we are three (Kris, Mancuerda and me) for Undertaker at 86.

Also, Drew McIntyre (76) and Swagger (75). Tensai should stay at 77.

Agree with Mancuerda for Storm's charisma to 86.

[KrisClassic]

I would put Santino above R-Truth. R-Truth at 86, Santino 88-89.

[Guest mr. potato head]

Still say Undertaker at 86 brawling is utterly ridiculous. In his absolute prime maybe, but not today. I like 61 as a decent compromise between people who think he's still got it and where the reality is.

I haven't seen this year's Mania match, but from what I gather it was a lot like the first HHH/Taker match. And even if you think that match was good (I don't), there's no conceivable way it was good because of how good their offence looked, which is what Brawl measures. If you want to look at it through the prism of EWR stats, it was good through Selling and especially through Overness.

And that's to say nothing of those matches being Taker at his absolute best, not hampered by being on the road 150 days a year. If Cena or Orton or anybody else was to only wrestle one match a year, they'd look a lot better in those matches than Taker has at the last couple Manias.

[KrisClassic]

Still say Undertaker at 86 brawling is utterly ridiculous. In his absolute prime maybe, but not today. I like 61 as a decent compromise between people who think he's still got it and where the reality is.

I haven't seen this year's Mania match, but from what I gather it was a lot like the first HHH/Taker match. And even if you think that match was good (I don't), there's no conceivable way it was good because of how good their offence looked, which is what Brawl measures. If you want to look at it through the prism of EWR stats, it was good through Selling and especially through Overness.

And that's to say nothing of those matches being Taker at his absolute best, not hampered by being on the road 150 days a year. If Cena or Orton or anybody else was to only wrestle one match a year, they'd look a lot better in those matches than Taker has at the last couple Manias.

Your point would be far easier to consider valid if you saw his most recent match instead of making assumptions about its quality.

-Raise Chikara's production values to 65, advertising to 45, and merchandise to 60. Raise their image to 46. Lower their risk to 46.

-Rename WWE Training Camp to Florida Championship Wrestling. Tough Enough is a yearly (assuming it comes back) reality show, FCW is where they actually train new talent. Bill DeMott should remain head trainer.

-Raise DG-USA's merchandising to 20.

-Raise HWA's risk to 61. Raise their production to 30.

-Raise JCW's risk to 96. Raise their advertising to 30. Move them to Regional, 45. Give them a bit more money (they have enough to bring in Flair, after all and are run by rich rappers).

-Delete NWA East and IWC IMO.

-Raise NWA Hollywood's image to 68.

-Raise PWG's advertising to 40, merchandising to 40, and image to 40.

-Lower PWS' risk to 61. Raise their merchandising to 40.

-Raise ROH's advertising to 65.

-Raise WSU's advertising to 25.

-Raise WWC's risk to 61, advertising to 35, and merchandising to 40.

-Raise 2CW's advertising to 40, production to 35, and merchandising to 20. Raise their image to 87 (they are regularly drawing 400-500 in crowds, sometimes more).

-Uncheck Booker for Mr. McMahon. WWE Board of Directors is supposed to represent him, it isn't realistic that he retires to run another promotion.

Edited July 9, 2012 by KrisClassic

[fusionFX!]

This promotion: http://aiwrestling.com/ could possibly be added in place of one of those promotions that KrisClassic said that could be taken out of the game.

[Mancuerda]

Still say Undertaker at 86 brawling is utterly ridiculous. In his absolute prime maybe, but not today. I like 61 as a decent compromise between people who think he's still got it and where the reality is.

I haven't seen this year's Mania match, but from what I gather it was a lot like the first HHH/Taker match. And even if you think that match was good (I don't), there's no conceivable way it was good because of how good their offence looked, which is what Brawl measures. If you want to look at it through the prism of EWR stats, it was good through Selling and especially through Overness.

And that's to say nothing of those matches being Taker at his absolute best, not hampered by being on the road 150 days a year. If Cena or Orton or anybody else was to only wrestle one match a year, they'd look a lot better in those matches than Taker has at the last couple Manias.

lol 61 as a compromise. A compromise would be around 80 or so. That said, you never even watched his last match, so why should we listen to your opinion?

You can make hypothetical arguments about Cena or Orton all day long, but who's to say all that time off HELPED. There is such a thing as "ring rust", and I don't mean the kayfabe term, I mean not wrestling for a while... It happens to a lot of people.

[KrisClassic]

We should make a list of top contenders and vote on it like months past. AIW would be a good candidate to add, as would Extreme Rising, WXW C4, North East Wrestling, and there are others I'm sure.

-Raise Soldier Ant's speed to 69, selling to 83, and overness to 58. Check High Spots.

-I'd argue for checking SS Look for the Young Bucks. Raise their charismas to 63.

-Raise Nick Jackson's brawl to 54 and stiffness to 39.

-Raise Matt Jackson's brawl to 58.

-Raise Leonard F. Chikarason's overness to 39.

-Raise Hallowicked's brawl to 56, speed to 72, stiffness to 43, and overness to 55.

-Raise Fire Ant's speed to 78 and overness to 60.

It seems more people favor Undertaker have 86 than having lower, so I'd say he should be at that.

Edited July 10, 2012 by KrisClassic

[notatardis]

I've seen 3 on both side of the argument thus far. I think a midpoint would be more appropriate, something in the mid 70s would suffice in that case I presume.

[KrisClassic]

I've seen 3 on both side of the argument thus far. I think a midpoint would be more appropriate, something in the mid 70s would suffice in that case I presume.

I don't think that would suffice at all. Three (myself, Conker, and Manc) people are for 86. It should at the least be 84 for a compromise, though I still maintain 86.

[jupiterhill]

I've heard both sides and thought I'd chime in.

The problem I see is that an 86 is good for Taker in real life. Where he only competes once a year. If he competed more often, I'd think his brawl stats would decrease a bit. However, I can't say a 60 or so is the answer. I would possibly lower it to about 81, but no lower than a 78. It would be absurd to knock him down that much.

On a side not, did I see Bob Backlund's charisma at 85? I may have never been a fan, but I've never seen him have that much charisma either. 65 may be a better fit.

[KrisClassic]

On a side not, did I see Bob Backlund's charisma at 85? I may have never been a fan, but I've never seen him have that much charisma either. 65 may be a better fit.

He was dreadful early on in his career, but with his 90s revival he cut a series of highly entertaining promos, and continues to do so. Early-mid 80s is right for him.

[Guest Team 720]

Still say Undertaker at 86 brawling is utterly ridiculous. In his absolute prime maybe, but not today. I like 61 as a decent compromise between people who think he's still got it and where the reality is.

I haven't seen this year's Mania match, but from what I gather it was a lot like the first HHH/Taker match. And even if you think that match was good (I don't), there's no conceivable way it was good because of how good their offence looked, which is what Brawl measures. If you want to look at it through the prism of EWR stats, it was good through Selling and especially through Overness.

And that's to say nothing of those matches being Taker at his absolute best, not hampered by being on the road 150 days a year. If Cena or Orton or anybody else was to only wrestle one match a year, they'd look a lot better in those matches than Taker has at the last couple Manias.

Your point would be far easier to consider valid if you saw his most recent match instead of making assumptions about its quality.

-Raise Chikara's production values to 65, advertising to 45, and merchandise to 60. Raise their image to 46. Lower their risk to 46.

-Rename WWE Training Camp to Florida Championship Wrestling. Tough Enough is a yearly (assuming it comes back) reality show, FCW is where they actually train new talent. Bill DeMott should remain head trainer.

-Raise DG-USA's merchandising to 20.

-Raise HWA's risk to 61. Raise their production to 30.

-Raise JCW's risk to 96. Raise their advertising to 30. Move them to Regional, 45. Give them a bit more money (they have enough to bring in Flair, after all and are run by rich rappers).

-Delete NWA East and IWC IMO.

-Raise NWA Hollywood's image to 68.

-Raise PWG's advertising to 40, merchandising to 40, and image to 40.

-Lower PWS' risk to 61. Raise their merchandising to 40.

-Raise ROH's advertising to 65.

-Raise WSU's advertising to 25.

-Raise WWC's risk to 61, advertising to 35, and merchandising to 40.

-Raise 2CW's advertising to 40, production to 35, and merchandising to 20. Raise their image to 87 (they are regularly drawing 400-500 in crowds, sometimes more).

-Uncheck Booker for Mr. McMahon. WWE Board of Directors is supposed to represent him, it isn't realistic that he retires to run another promotion.

I would see NWA East go first. They are not even followed anymore. IWC still runs but isn't as followed.

Still say Undertaker at 86 brawling is utterly ridiculous. In his absolute prime maybe, but not today. I like 61 as a decent compromise between people who think he's still got it and where the reality is.

I haven't seen this year's Mania match, but from what I gather it was a lot like the first HHH/Taker match. And even if you think that match was good (I don't), there's no conceivable way it was good because of how good their offence looked, which is what Brawl measures. If you want to look at it through the prism of EWR stats, it was good through Selling and especially through Overness.

And that's to say nothing of those matches being Taker at his absolute best, not hampered by being on the road 150 days a year. If Cena or Orton or anybody else was to only wrestle one match a year, they'd look a lot better in those matches than Taker has at the last couple Manias.

lol 61 as a compromise. A compromise would be around 80 or so. That said, you never even watched his last match, so why should we listen to your opinion?

You can make hypothetical arguments about Cena or Orton all day long, but who's to say all that time off HELPED. There is such a thing as "ring rust", and I don't mean the kayfabe term, I mean not wrestling for a while... It happens to a lot of people.

I think the low 80's is a top. Taker rarely wrestles anymore so his ring rust is shown as often as possible due to his lack of wrestling.

We should make a list of top contenders and vote on it like months past. AIW would be a good candidate to add, as would Extreme Rising, WXW C4, North East Wrestling, and there are others I'm sure.

-Raise Soldier Ant's speed to 69, selling to 83, and overness to 58. Check High Spots.

-I'd argue for checking SS Look for the Young Bucks. Raise their charismas to 63.

-Raise Nick Jackson's brawl to 54 and stiffness to 39.

-Raise Leonard F. Chikarason's overness to 39.

-Raise Hallowicked's brawl to 56, speed to 72, stiffness to 43, and overness to 55.

-Raise Fire Ant's speed to 78 and overness to 60.

It seems more people favor Undertaker have 86 than having lower, so I'd say he should be at that.

I thought Soldier is currently at 69 selling.

Fire Ant's speed is currently at 77 and I think it is fine as is.

I would say another candidate is Resistance Pro out of Chicago run by Billy Corgan. Most if not all of the roster are in the game already.

I've seen 3 on both side of the argument thus far. I think a midpoint would be more appropriate, something in the mid 70s would suffice in that case I presume.

I don't think that would suffice at all. Three (myself, Conker, and Manc) people are for 86. It should at the least be 84 for a compromise, though I still maintain 86.

There you go again saying the compromise should be higher than it should. I think an 81/82 compromise is the best option. I think he is fine in the low 80's tops end of story. Besides the last Mania match, I have not seen Undertaker do that well in any match on a regular basis since WrestleMania XXV (the reason I say that is out of the last four WrestleManias, he had three great matches with XXVII outstanding.) Hell he even screwed up a count at Cyber Sunday 2008.

Mr. Bob Backlund is fine at 73 tops. He is charismatic in the aspect Steiner is, you never know what the crazy old coot will say and not because he is AMAZING on the mic.

Edited July 10, 2012 by Team 720

[Guest mr. potato head]

Still say Undertaker at 86 brawling is utterly ridiculous. In his absolute prime maybe, but not today. I like 61 as a decent compromise between people who think he's still got it and where the reality is.

I haven't seen this year's Mania match, but from what I gather it was a lot like the first HHH/Taker match. And even if you think that match was good (I don't), there's no conceivable way it was good because of how good their offence looked, which is what Brawl measures. If you want to look at it through the prism of EWR stats, it was good through Selling and especially through Overness.

And that's to say nothing of those matches being Taker at his absolute best, not hampered by being on the road 150 days a year. If Cena or Orton or anybody else was to only wrestle one match a year, they'd look a lot better in those matches than Taker has at the last couple Manias.

lol 61 as a compromise. A compromise would be around 80 or so. That said, you never even watched his last match, so why should we listen to your opinion?

I've read enough descriptions of the 2012 match to know that it wasn't significantly different from the 2011 match in any ways that are reflected in EWR stats. That said, you never even addressed the point that the match I did see was as good as it allegedly was due to Selling and Overness, not Brawl, so why should I listen to your opinion?

And as for the "ring rust" thing, you can't honestly believe a 47-year-old man would be performing better in each match if he were wrestling 100 matches per year as opposed to one, can you? If that's the case, why don't 47-year-old players of <insert your favourite sport here> sign one-day contracts with top-level teams to get another payday?

[Lineker]

I can't believe I am saying this.

But I'm agreeing with MPH. And I've seen the matches.

[fusionFX!]

Here's a few more promotions to add to that list Kris..

http://www.topropepromotions.com/news.html

http://www.ewaprowrestling.com/#!__home

http://www.bostonwrestling.com/mwfnewsline.html

http://nhcw.webstarts.com/index.html

http://www.pwfnewrestling.com/index.html

http://www.angelfire.com/de3/dcw/mainpage.html

http://www.jscw.us/

http://www.iyfwrestling.com/

http://www.fwewrestling.com/

http://www.maximumforcewrestling.com/

http://www.warriorsofwrestling.com/

http://www.allamericanprowrestling.com/index.html

http://www.prowrestlingphoenix.com/

http://www.ibelieveinwrestling.com/

http://www.cwf247.com/

http://www.scwawrestling.com/index.html

http://hstrial-futurestarsof.homestead.com/main.html

http://www.renowrestlefactory.com/index.html

http://www.vendettaprowrestling.com/main/

http://www.metrowrestling.com/

http://prowrestlingepic.com/

http://www.magnumprowrestling.com/

http://bpwrageson.blogspot.com/

Just a few to look through and see what you all think about adding them.

[KrisClassic]

MPH, I'm sorry, but I still believe your argument is completely invalid until you actually SEE the match.

For everyone saying they didn't like Taker/Triple H matches, I really think it falls down to preference. The second was a slow-paced, but told a great story. The same way brawl has to represent different styles of brawling (strong style, hardcore, deathmatch, WWE style, etc), that's a style it covers. Don't like that style? That's fine, but it is still covered in that category, and Taker excels in it.

-Change AJ Lee's gimmick to Crazy.

I thought Soldier is currently at 69 selling.

Fire Ant's speed is currently at 77 and I think it is fine as is.

Assuming you meant speed. His speed is currently at 67. Fire Ant I think deserves the bump after watching his match at High Noon. He is doing some incredible things.

I can see where people would say different thing for Backlund's charisma. A fair compromise would be 76-79 IMO.

BTW, on the promotions list, JSCW (Jersey Shore Championship Wrestling) is basically the same thing as JAPW. Maybe make it a different roster on JAPW. R-Pro would be a great candidate as well.

Edited July 10, 2012 by KrisClassic

[fusionFX!]

We could make Jersey Shore Championship Wrestling JAPW's developmental territory.

[jupiterhill]

I really like Metro Pro Wrestling. I just think there are a lot of people to add to the game to include them. I would love to see all the people added, but it will just take a while to include them as a promotion. I can't even get Brian Breaker stats and he signed a developmental deal with WWE.

[Guest Team 720]

I can see where people would say different thing for Backlund's charisma. A fair compromise would be 76-79 IMO.

Check your math, it would be an average of 74-5 for a 65, a 73 and a 85 TOPs. I honestly don't think he is more than 74.

Edited July 10, 2012 by Team 720

[KrisClassic]

We could make Jersey Shore Championship Wrestling JAPW's developmental territory.

That'd be perfect. If that's the case, add the following to JAPW on dev deals:

-Chris Dickinson. Raise his overness to 19 and charisma to 68.

-Myke Quest. Raise his brawl to 59, technical to 68, stiffness to 44, selling to 63, and overness to 17. Add Mike Quest to alter egos.

-Corvis Fear. Raise his overness to 18 and charisma to 73. Add Eric Corvis to alter egos. Raise Garden State Gods experience to 17.

-Dixie Brower.

-Josh Daniels. Raise his wages to 17,000. Add a tag team with him and Matt Striker, 5 exp, inactive.

-Danny DeManto.

-Kraig Stagg. Change his gimmick to Harsh German.

I can see where people would say different thing for Backlund's charisma. A fair compromise would be 76-79 IMO.

Check your math, it would be an average of 74-5 for a 65, a 73 and a 85 TOPs. I honestly don't think he is more than 74.

Considering it is three people saying 86, the actual average would be 80.

Edited July 10, 2012 by KrisClassic