EWR 2014 Stats Update: April ***PLEASE USE SPOILER TAGS***

[DMN in the House]

The only thing I want to say after reading the last few pages is that CM Punk definitely doesn't deserve 100 charisma. That's outrageous. He's a solid promo, not one of the best ever, I'd say 85-88.

[TEOL]

This is reaching "Kofi Kingston has Shooting Ability" levels of exhausting and should probably be a discussion in that Theory and Practice thread about what "Unique" actually means.

We've even had the 'well what does it actually mean in game terms'/'maybe that's what it means in game terms but I always thought it really meant' discussion all over again.

[The Lusophone]

UFC had 1 milion 600 thousands PPV buys (UFC 100) and 1 milion 200 thousands (UFC 116) when Lesnar was at the top and no one touched that. His return drew because people wanted to see him destroy Cena but Vince being an idiot and trying to prove that WWE > UFC destroyed everything after that. Don't even get me started on the match with Triple H because no one gave a fuck about their 3rd match and how Brock was booked until that point.

So Cena (this is debatable) or Punk are more known outside WWE than Brock Lesnar?

Brock's return drew because we hadn't seen Brock for years, he left during his prime and that made him valuable. It was the same with Goldberg. Huge star who left/was forced to leave the business, came in, dream matches abound, buy rates went up.

Then they settled. The longer into his run, the less he effected them. The same has happened and is happening with Brock, which is probably part of the reason he was the one to beat the streak.

With movies, mainstream endorsements, sponsorships and charity work, yes, John Cena is more known outside WWE than Brock Lesnar.

[kaya]

Technically nobody should be "unique" since in most cases their gimmick can be described through the gimmicks in game.

Why not think of the use of the gimmick as the game does, somebody who can have a 100% rated segment (not match a segment) and as such I've never seen Lesnar have anything near a 100% segment.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^---- this.

The best way to resolve subjective disputes is to change the framework of the debate; instead of talking about peoples opinions of X workers charisma or historical significance to the industry re-frame the debate around the game mechanics.

As TheWho87 points out the game has criteria, as well as pre-existing gimmicks - why not use these?

If someone wants to switch X worker to a unique gimmick in their data set so be it. Otherwise, workers should be assigned gimmicks that fit pre-existing moulds. If such a mould exists for a worker then that should be the gimmick they are assigned.

It doesn't have to be perfect.

Gimmicks should not be created for specific workers like 'Cerebral Assasin', or 'The Hulkster' or something. The categories are designed to be broadly understood and used, this is a text-based game and you are supposed to use an element of your imagination also. Such that you could have two workers assigned the same gimmick but from a gamer or 'role-playing' perspective you ('the player') would understand that these two individuals are not identical or 'acting' their gimmick the same way... but this is up to you, in your head. TEW2013 makes this a bit easier to manage as the gimmick file is more complicated, and there is a great gimmick file available currently that shows how you can replicate subtlety in gimmicks. Unfortunately in EWR this needs to fall more or less solely on the players imagination.

Moreover, If someone is not capable of receiving a 100% segment (or have not in the past) then they should not be given a 'unique' gimmick. That is a logical criteria to use that is grounded in the logic of the game, as opposed to external sentiments.

Something that is 'unique' is by definition rare, assigning this gimmick is rare - there are only a small handful of people who will ever meet the criteria. The first choice should always be to assign a pre-existing gimmick, this prevents subjective disagreements such as X should have 'unique.'

Edited May 1, 2014 by kaya

[Skummy]

The unique gimmick has nothing to do with achievements, impact on the industry, or how well-known you are.

You want to argue that Brock Lesnar is more well known than CM Punk, or John Cena, or whatever? That's overness, which is already covered in the game.

The unique gimmick refers solely to whether the worker's gimmick can be considered unique. It has nothing to do with how big a draw you are or what you've accomplished in your career, it has to do with your gimmick. Anything else is irrelevant to the discussion.

[hippie]

Then remove it from Cena and Punk and lower his charisma too. There's no way that the guy deserves 100.

[Skummy]

I agree that Punk's charisma should be lower than 100. I'd say around 89-92 or so at the most.

A more sensible question, regarding the Unique gimmick for these guys, would be "if CM Punk/John Cena's gimmick isn't unique, what is it instead?"

[hippie]

Rebel and Hero.

[apsham]

And Brock's should be Legitimate Athlete or Monster.

There we go.

[Doc Devine]

If anyone is interested: http://www.sendspace.com/file/gyun4r

Overness suggestions.

Alexander Rusev - 60 (+13)

Lana - 59 (+18)

Adam Rose - 50 (+5)

Bad News Barrett - 78 (+3)

Billy Gunn - 77 (-4)

Jesse James - 77 (-5)

Bray Wyatt - 88 (+2)

Erick Rowan - 77 (+2)

Luke Harper - 78 (+2)

Charlotte - 42 (+5)

Cesaro - 84 (+3)

Paul Heyman - 90 (+3)

Damien Sandow - 76 (-2)

Emma - 66 (+10)

El Torito - 70 (+3)

Mark Henry - 85 (-2)

Paige - 71 (+11)

Darren Young - 64 (-3)

Usos - 84 (+4)

Sin Cara - 69 (-5)

Edited May 1, 2014 by Doc Devine

[hippie]

And Brock's should be Legitimate Athlete or Monster.

There we go.

Fair enough.

[Y2JFan111]

ROH Spoiler:

Change TaDarius Thomas to a heel in ROH, add to The Decade stable.

Edited May 1, 2014 by Y2JFan111

[Mike Jones]

I agree that Punk's charisma should be lower than 100. I'd say around 89-92 or so at the most.

A more sensible question, regarding the Unique gimmick for these guys, would be "if CM Punk/John Cena's gimmick isn't unique, what is it instead?"

I wouldn't lower Punk's charisma lower than 95. 95 seems perfect to me actually.

I would put him right up there as one of the top 50 of all time (although obviously he probably didn't make the wwe.com list but idk). That would put him on the same level of Heyman as far as promos go, but he doesn't have the presence that John Cena has, for example, and Cena's at 97 so it really shouldn't be higher than that imo.

[hippie]

If Punk has 95 then put Hogan at 100.

[=BK=]

I don't think Cena should be higher than Punk. Cena at 93 Punk at 93 or 94 seems right.

[DMN in the House]

Cena is a better promo than Punk, and also has much better physical charisma. Cena is probably top 50 of all time in terms of mic work, Punk isn't even close to that.

Anything higher than 88 is stretching it for Punk. Like I've said before, he's a strong, solid promo, but, outside of a few really high notes, and some really strong work whenever he's really working the straight edge stuff, he's nothing special.

[conker8]

Well, how do you rate Shawn Michaels, Triple H and Edge charisma ?

[ModestATT]

Austin and Rock should be the only ones remotely close to 100 Charisma, Cena/Punk/Heyman/Jericho mid 90's and everyone else below that.

Edited May 2, 2014 by ModestATT

[DMN in the House]

Well, how do you rate Shawn Michaels, Triple H and Edge charisma ?

Shawn, somewhere between 88-92.

Hunter, 90-94.

Edge 88-92.

I might go higher on Shawn, thinking about it, but those are close. None of them are all-time greats when it comes to mic work or charisma. When I say 'all-time greats', I'm thinking of names like Rock, Dusty, Flair, Jericho, Heyman. These guys are a step below those guys.

I tend to skew lower on stats, though, it leaves more room to really differentiate the best from the rest.

[mkpunk]

Cena is a better promo than Punk, and also has much better physical charisma. Cena is probably top 50 of all time in terms of mic work, Punk isn't even close to that.

Anything higher than 88 is stretching it for Punk. Like I've said before, he's a strong, solid promo, but, outside of a few really high notes, and some really strong work whenever he's really working the straight edge stuff, he's nothing special.

Cena when serious is good. When he is goofy and making random inside reference he is TERRIBLE. Seriously tell me the Wyatt picture promo was better than most promos Punk has done even when he didn't shoot. At least when Punk "shoots" it is entertaining. I'll agree on physical charisma but I would put Punk higher than Cena on.

FYI Hogan has butchered promos a lot in the last 10 or so years. He is at most 98.