House of the Dragon (Game of Thrones) Thread

[Animal]

Really enjoyed this episode, it was really good.

I have a question for those who read the books. Without spoiling anything does the series stay true to the books or is it like Walking Dead where they completely re-write certain stuff?

[Benji]

Jeez, I totally missed this when watching. Insight into the "dark path" that Arya may be going down?

[livid]

Eh, I think it was pretty much just a coincidence because I think the "dark path" that was alluded to has to do with her list.

[Chris the Human]

I certainly don't think the similarities between the arrows in Arya's target dummy and the quarrels in Ros' corpse are mere chance. The GoT writers have done a great job in the past of linking themes together, and there is a certain 'darkness' to Arya's desire to kill those she feels have wronged her. She's not as sadistic or as insane as Joffrey, but there's no 'good' serial killers >_>

Loved the recent episode, but the new measuring stick (for me) was the episode prior. That Jaime monologue alone was a series highlight for me.

[Phobia]

Really enjoyed this episode, it was really good.

I have a question for those who read the books. Without spoiling anything does the series stay true to the books or is it like Walking Dead where they completely re-write certain stuff?

For the most part, it stays true to the books. Some aspects are changed to better suit it for a TV format, such as combining characters and/or leaving some out entirely. Major story arcs aren't usually changed, but Dany's story from last season really had to be changed or it would have been boring on TV.

[lanky316]

I don't know about that, the basic plot is roughly on key but they have 180'd quite a lot of the characters. As an example, the Cat and Robb story while working towards the same outcome has been changed and seems to be suffering for it. Benjis comment above is fairly typical of a lot of people who are following it and that's a vastly different one compared to what we should be getting. I'll spoiler tag in case anything does become relevant, but it's pretty much book to screen with no future spoilers.

Robb and Cat are pretty much seperated until Riverrun after Cat has been doing lots of political stuff and witnessing the death of Renly (incidentallly they took a big part of Briennes character there and then, the whole point is she's a big tough person... Who's never had to fight with consequences and her first "kill" is a huge deal as far as her mindset goes.) During which time he's campaigning to loads of glory and making Tywin concerned. During the siege of one of the Lannister bannermen Robb is wounded. While recovering from his wounds he hears news that his brothers are dead (also a key factor in Cat freeing Jaime Lannister, in the show as far as they're aware they're "just" missing) and is "comforted" by the daughter of Tywins niece under orders of her mother in his distressed, volatile and lonely state they have sex, he feels guilty and marries her in case of her conceiving a bastard. I'll stop there but essentially in the book Robb is being out played in the game, he is incredibly naive and is swept along events pretty much outside of his control and Cat tries to help him out of it. In the TV show he (and Cat for that matter) are far more proactive in events which in my opinion is pretty key.

Future spoilers..... Non readers DO NOT read

while I'm sure the Red Wedding is still going to be powerful on screen and have a similar effect the motivation and that a lot of people seem to think of Robb as a little shit has changed the dynamic quite a bit. By now we should feel a lot more sympathetic and understanding. There should be no dick moves at all, he's an innocent boy who expects everyone to be honest and tried to do the right thing. The Starks are always reacting to outside events.

-----

Addition after changign studios...

Basically the series is running rougly parallel but a lot of hows and whys are vastly different. It keeps it on key but some of the changes do seem pretty jarring as they seem off. They have distracted her indoors quite a lot, her verdict of Robb being a dick came a long time ago. This season has moved a bit closer with the books but I think it's because of the overall end point being a little easier for this series to work toward. Some changes have worked well but others I think have worked badly.

Edited May 8, 2013 by lanky316

[MalaCloudy Black]

Benjis comment above is fairly typical of a lot of people who are following it and that's a vastly different one compared to what we should be getting.

That's how I feel too. I always liked Robb in the books, and to some extent I still like TV!Robb because of my attachment to the character in the books - but he's been written very differently in the show.

[Benji]

Thing is, I feel like I should be liking him, but I just don't, he's just coming across as a petulent teenager and a bit of a knob. How much of that is bad writing and how much of that is bad acting is up for debate.

[livid]

Thing is, I feel like I should be liking him, but I just don't, he's just coming across as a petulent teenager and a bit of a knob. How much of that is bad writing and how much of that is bad acting is up for debate.

Why would it have to be either? I think it's pretty obvious that's how they want you to view him. Whether that means you actively don't like him or not because of it is up to you.

[lanky316]

Benjis comment above is fairly typical of a lot of people who are following it and that's a vastly different one compared to what we should be getting.

That's how I feel too. I always liked Robb in the books, and to some extent I still like TV!Robb because of my attachment to the character in the books - but he's been written very differently in the show.

I think it's a side effect of aging up characters for the TV show. Understandable of course, the sexual relationships of Dany and Jon involving adults and young teenagers alongside the more mutual underage relationships such as book!Robbs couldn't be shown on screen if they were casting characters as being the same ages as per book. With the older characters in this case, I get the feeling the writers opinion was a fully grown man having sex with someone because he was sad and marrying them as "it was the right thing to do" was harder to buy then a 13/14 year old left without real guidance for the first time in his life doing the same. I think that means some of his motivations come across more dickish, it's a bit harder to sympathise for a character when the impression given is that "yeah well, I'm king of the north and I don't want to do that, so I won't".

[Phobia]

Thing is, I feel like I should be liking him, but I just don't, he's just coming across as a petulent teenager and a bit of a knob. How much of that is bad writing and how much of that is bad acting is up for debate.

I believe its neither. The acting is on par with the writing, both are pretty amazing for the show. Fact is, Robb is doing the same shit Ned would have done had the roles been reversed. Plenty of the ideas are stupid but he's doing what he considers to be the honorable way to go about it.

While I do agree that plenty of things have been changed around from the book, most have stayed true enough to keep TV viewers interested. Just imagine Dany having the actual story from COK last season. How many chapters did she have in that book again? 5? Her screen time would have been even more non-existent than it already is. Robb's marriage is probably the best example because, as you said, in the books it made him sympathetic but on the show it really does come across like he just does NOT give a fuck what the Frey's will think about it. "I'm their king, they will get over it. I'll throw 'em a bone and give 'em my uncle instead."

As a long-time book-fan some changes have bothered me a bit while others are totally understandable. You can't fit in everything from the books, let alone keep the same stuff and trim it to fit in 10 episodes. Robb's story had to be changed or he wouldn't have much screen time at all. I don't mind it as I believe the books and the TV show are going to have their own canon. Plus, I like to be surprised now and then. I can't wait to see these boards by the end of the season. Gonna be so fun to watch, lol.

[Benji]

Thing is, I feel like I should be liking him, but I just don't, he's just coming across as a petulent teenager and a bit of a knob. How much of that is bad writing and how much of that is bad acting is up for debate.

I believe its neither. The acting is on par with the writing, both are pretty amazing for the show. Fact is, Robb is doing the same shit Ned would have done had the roles been reversed. Plenty of the ideas are stupid but he's doing what he considers to be the honorable way to go about it.

Debateable. Ned was a man of his word, and if he didn't have that then he didn't have anything. In my understanding of the character (purely from the show) Ned wouldn't have married basically based on lust and in order to get out of an arranged marriage that he'd given his word about, and he certainly wouldn't have sold his relatives down the river to save his own political skin (this is a guy who kept his bastard son around even though it was a headache for him to be stuck between the kid and his wife). Robb has been shown to be selfish, and not live up to his word, he's basically the anti-Ned right now. If anything, his bastard son is being shown as more like Ned than his legitimate heir.

[Ruki]

My friend is finally starting to feel bad for Theon.

Just because he is going to/lost his manhood.

Come on....he doesn't deserve this crap!

Also! Bear fight! The Hound! Dragons being badass!

[Mick]

Man, who did Theon piss off in a past life?

[Maxx]

What the fuck is with the Theon lovefest?

He betrayed the people who actually cared about him, to impress people who didn't give a shit about him. And he couldn't even impress those people properly and follow simple orders, instead he sacks his adopted home and then orders children to be killed and their bodies burned. I'm sorry, I must be missing the noble acts of Theon Greyjoy that have made him so beloved.

[Ruki]

What the fuck is with the Theon lovefest?

He betrayed the people who actually cared about him, to impress people who didn't give a shit about him. And he couldn't even impress those people properly and follow simple orders, instead he sacks his adopted home and then orders children to be killed and their bodies burned. I'm sorry, I must be missing the noble acts of Theon Greyjoy that have made him so beloved.

Yes, he fucked up, and I would have been fine with him being executed. But to be tortured this bad and this long is just too much.

[Phobia]

I agree that he is pretty much a huge piece of shit, but he did it to impress the father that was taken away from him at the age of 9. Its not by any means an excuse but the guy WAS technically a prisoner of these people half his life, despite the fact that he was treated like he was a part of the family. Last season, I was more inclined to hate the shit out of Theon just like you, but after hearing his heart filled confession a couple episodes back about who his real father was I can't help but feel a bit bad for him.

I doubt it has anything to do with him being loved though, it has more to do with the horrible torture he is being put through. People, including myself, don't want to be subjected to viewing someone being tortured, no matter who the individual is. The show is doing a great job of making people feel sorry for him, something the book hasn't been able to do for me whatsoever.

The same can be said for Jaime, and do you hate him? At this point I don't think there are many people who CAN hate him. This was a seriously awesome episode though. Not as good as Blackwater last year but on par with The Pointy End, I love when GRRM writes an episode, always so much content.

[Maxx]

I don't think there's that much of a comparison to be made between Jamie and Theon. Without going into spoilers, Jamie's more nefarious actions were done to protect himself and his loved ones. Since then, he's been humbled and is now engaging in selfless acts to protect other people. Theon betrayed his best friend, who had nothing to do with his "captivity" and then orchestrated the murder of children. He did this all direct defiance of the orders of the person he was trying so hard to impress. So it was vile, and stupid.

[Gazz]

He's also just got one of those faces you want to flay.

[livid]

Great episode. Highlight was Hodor's "idk...Hodor?" bit.