MLB 2023

[Meacon Keaton]

I mean, the Phillies fired Giardi before midseason last year and completely flipped the script and ended up in the World Series, but a wealthy Mets fan still gonna let the Mets Met.

[The Buscher]

It's not the same situation.  The Phillies fired Girardi nearly 4 weeks earlier than now.  At the time of his firing, they were 12 games out of the division and 5 games out of a playoff spot.  4 weeks ago, the Mets were only 3.5 back in the division and in a playoff spot.  They've been walloped in one of the biggest June swoons in their history and it happened so fast that I really think they've already gone well past the point of no return.  They're like 9.5 out of a playoff spot now.  They'd need to play at a 103-win pace right now just to hit the Phillies' 87 win total from a year ago.  It's over.

Also, optics matter.  Girardi's Phillies tenure was underwhelming.  Buck's coming off of 101 wins and a Manager of the Year award.  Some Mets fans want Cohen to be Steinbrenner reincarnated but the reality is the game has changed, the last owner anyone wants to work for anymore is an impulsive and impatient one.

Really though I think this stat sums it up in a nutshell.  The Mets are 22-3 when their starting pitcher goes at least six innings.  They are 14-41 when they don't.  The lack of length they get from a starting staff that was widely projected to be a top 10 in baseball is staggering.  This isn't the Rays running openers and loading up a great bullpen.  This is a rotation failing miserably, leaving an already iffy looking pen to get overworked having to enter in the 4th/5th every day.  No manager could win with this.

[Meacon Keaton]

Perfect game!

[Lowerdeck]

Yeah, it's against Oakland.  But it's still an impressive achievement.

[Meacon Keaton]

Yes, doing something that's only been done twenty-three other times is still impressive.  

27 minutes ago, I Think You Should Busch said:

It's not the same situation.  The Phillies fired Girardi nearly 4 weeks earlier than now.  At the time of his firing, they were 12 games out of the division and 5 games out of a playoff spot.  4 weeks ago, the Mets were only 3.5 back in the division and in a playoff spot.  They've been walloped in one of the biggest June swoons in their history and it happened so fast that I really think they've already gone well past the point of no return.  They're like 9.5 out of a playoff spot now.  They'd need to play at a 103-win pace right now just to hit the Phillies' 87 win total from a year ago.  It's over.

Also, optics matter.  Girardi's Phillies tenure was underwhelming.  Buck's coming off of 101 wins and a Manager of the Year award.  Some Mets fans want Cohen to be Steinbrenner reincarnated but the reality is the game has changed, the last owner anyone wants to work for anymore is an impulsive and impatient one.

Really though I think this stat sums it up in a nutshell.  The Mets are 22-3 when their starting pitcher goes at least six innings.  They are 14-41 when they don't.  The lack of length they get from a starting staff that was widely projected to be a top 10 in baseball is staggering.  This isn't the Rays running openers and loading up a great bullpen.  This is a rotation failing miserably, leaving an already iffy looking pen to get overworked having to enter in the 4th/5th every day.  No manager could win with this.

I've watched a little over zero minutes of the Mets this year, but most of the talk within this thread has been your criticism of Buck, so I've assumed it's been his managing for the most part that's put the Mets in the situation they're in. That's why I was suggesting giving him the Girardi treatment. 

Regardless of how many games they won last year, they're supposed to be in win-now mode, much like the Phillies were.

[The Buscher]

Man, why did such an awesome accomplishment have to go to a domestic abusing piece of shit?

[gunnar hendershow]

Wild three game stretch for him.

 

[DYSI]

6 hours ago, Meacon Keaton said:

Yes, doing something that's only been done twenty-three other times is still impressive.  

 

🤔

[gunnar hendershow]

I think it's worth saying that one of those years they were already in the World Series.

[The Buscher]

7 hours ago, Meacon Keaton said:

I've watched a little over zero minutes of the Mets this year, but most of the talk within this thread has been your criticism of Buck, so I've assumed it's been his managing for the most part that's put the Mets in the situation they're in. That's why I was suggesting giving him the Girardi treatment.

My main criticism of Buck in the first two months was him being overly deferential to the veteran players while top prospects are forced into platoons.  Eventually Alvarez and Baty forced their way into the everyday lineup (poor Vientos never had a shot, though).  But even with these criticisms the Mets were in a playoff spot.

I think his bullpen management has been bad with this past Sunday being especially egregious, he dusted off his old 2016 Wild Card reasoning for not bringing in his closer during the most crucial moment in the game because he needed to be saved for a save situation that, predictably, never came.  But there aren't many managers who go a whole season without a few questionable pen moves.  The much bigger issue is everyone in that pen is burned out because the starters can't do their jobs.

Tons of underpeformance offensively too.  Alonso having 24 dingers is nice but he also is hitting .220 and seems to feel pressure at being the only proper power threat, so he's swinging for the fences every time up.  McNeil won a batting title a year ago as the best hitter in baseball against the shift, now hitting .250 with shifts taken away.  Lindor is making $34 million and was hitting .210 a week ago.  Starling Marte was invisible for about 2 months.  Consistently failing to cash in with RISP.  Etc. 

It's just a roster-wide regression from a year ago and I don't know it can be pinned on any one person.  It's the worst season of my fandom and I'm OK with selling off Robertson, Pham, and any other veterans that could get a return.  Cohen already said he'll eat money to get better prospect returns if needed.  Just flush this year down the crapper and re-assess the whole operation in the offseason when Stearns is here.

[The Buscher]

FanDuel gave out a $5 free bet on any sport.  So I said screw it and did a "Mets misery parlay" of a Mets loss, Phillies win, and Yankees win.

I am $40 richer.

[gunnar hendershow]

As good as Miami has been, there's a part of me that just sees the Phillies continuing to roll and maybe even challenge Atlanta during the final weeks of the season. Just so much talent on that team and a lot of the bats still waiting to wake up.

[The Buscher]

Blew the largest payroll out of the water just to get a team that is 10 games under .500 before the All Star Break.  Finding new ways to lose every night.  Zero signs of getting better.  Multiple washed-looking old players on big money, long-term deals.  #3 and #4 hitters batting .225.  Lame duck manager.  Terrible GM.  And fans of the other 29 teams believe the official spokesperson for the entirety of the Mets fanbase is Frank Fleming.

Surely, at some point, rock bottom has to be reached.

[Krabby]

2 hours ago, I Think You Should Busch said:

Blew the largest payroll out of the water just to get a team that is 10 games under .500 before the All Star Break.  Finding new ways to lose every night.  Zero signs of getting better.  Multiple washed-looking old players on big money, long-term deals.  #3 and #4 hitters batting .225.  Lame duck manager.  Terrible GM.  And fans of the other 29 teams believe the official spokesperson for the entirety of the Mets fanbase is Frank Fleming.

Surely, at some point, rock bottom has to be reached.

What did Cohen's presser all say? Anything of substance?

[The Buscher]

12 hours ago, Krabby said:

What did Cohen's presser all say? Anything of substance?

Not really.  Acknowledges the season has been a massive disappointment, expresses confidence in the staff in place and doesn’t believe in impulse decisions (aka he doesn’t wanna turn off candidates, bare minimum Buck is surely out in November).

Reiterated his desire to hire a President of Baseball Ops in November.  “The right candidate will eventually be available”, “have to follow the rules”.  All but saying he’s going to try to hire David Stearns who is sitting out this year on the final year of his Brewers contract.  If he doesn’t hire him I think the fanbase might properly turn on him.

[The Buscher]

All Star Rosters (for now until players get replaced)

AL

Starting Lineup (Fan Voting)
C Jonah Heim, Rangers
1B Yandy Diaz, Rays
2B Marcus Semien, Rangers
SS Corey Seager, Rangers
3B Josh Jung, Rangers
OF Randy Arozarena, Rays
OF Aaron Judge, Yankees
OF Mike Trout, Angels
DH Shohei Ohtani, Angels

Player-Elected Selections
C Adley Rutschman, Orioles
1B Vladimir Guerrero Jr, Blue Jays
2B Whit Merrifield, Blue Jays
SS Bo Bichette, Blue Jays
3B Jose Ramirez, Guardians
OF Yordan Alvarez, Astros
OF Adolis Garcia, Rangers
OF Austin Hays, Orioles
DH Brent Rooker, Athletics
SP Gerrit Cole, Yankees
SP Nathan Eovaldi, Rangers
SP Sonny Gray, Twins
SP Shane McClanahan, Rays
SP Shohei Ohtani, Angels* (doesn't count toward the 12-pitcher limit)
RP Felix Bautista, Orioles
RP Yennier Cano, Orioles
RP Emmanuel Clase, Guardians

League Selections
C Salvador Perez, Royals
OF Luis Robert Jr, White Sox
SP Luis Castillo, Mariners
SP Kevin Gausman, Blue Jays
SP Michael Lorenzen, Tigers
RP Kenley Jansen, Red Sox
SP Framber Valdez, Astros

NL

Starting Lineup (Fan Voting)
C Sean Murphy, Braves
1B Freddie Freeman, Dodgers
2B Luis Arraez, Marlins
SS Orlando Arcia, Braves
3B Nolan Arenado, Cardinals
OF Ronald Acuna Jr, Braves
OF Mookie Betts, Dodgers
OF Corbin Carroll, Diamondbacks
DH J.D. Martinez, Dodgers

Player-Elected Selections
C Will Smith, Dodgers
1B Matt Olson, Braves
2B Ozzie Albies, Braves
SS Dansby Swanson, Cubs
3B Austin Riley, Braves
OF Nick Castellanos, Phillies
OF Lourdes Gurriel Jr, Diamondbacks
OF Juan Soto, Padres
DH Jorge Soler, Marlins
SP Bryce Elder, Braves
SP Zac Gallen, Diamondbacks
SP Clayton Kershaw, Dodgers
SP Spencer Strider, Braves
SP Marcus Stroman, Cubs
RP Alexis Diaz, Reds
RP Camilo Doval, Giants
RP Josh Hader, Padres

League Selections
C Elias Diaz, Rockies
1B Pete Alonso, Mets
SP Josiah Gray, Nationals
SP Mitch Keller, Pirates
SP Justin Steele, Cubs
RP Devin Williams, Brewers

[gunnar hendershow]

Happy for the Orioles selections. Hays has had a fantastic year and fully deserves this, hoping his wrist injury from yesterday is minor. Cano has been a wonderful story even if he's regressed to the mean lately. Bautista is god right now. Adley is wonderful and hopefully this the first of many.

[The Buscher]

I'm okay with the Mets only having one rep given their awful season but I think they got the wrong one.  David Robertson was probably their most deserving candidate but pitching is tight.  Numbers-wise I feel like Nimmo is their best position player this year by far and warranted a case over Gurriel.  Lindor, despite a low batting average, leads shortstops in HR and RBI along with playing a Gold Glove level defense, kinda surprised the players elected Dansby Swanson over him.

While Alonso is 2nd in the NL in home runs, he had 10 of them in the first 21 games of the season and since that date he's hit under the Mendoza line while his OPS was cut in half.  The fact that he publicly stated he wouldn't do the Home Run Derby unless he made the All Star team feels like he pretty much politicked his way onto the team.

[gunnar hendershow]

The one-player-per-team rule hit perhaps a new low this year with All-Stars Michael Lorenzen & Kenley Jansen.

[The Buscher]

28 minutes ago, damhausen said:

The one-player-per-team rule hit perhaps a new low this year with All-Stars Michael Lorenzen & Kenley Jansen.

Yeah the Lorenzen choice is especially surprising.  The Tigers had become that team that was perpetually getting random relievers making it and even the quickest glance at the statsheet would show you that Tyler Holton, Jason Foley, or Jose Cisnero could've continued that trend and had a better case than Lorenzen.

My guess is Jansen got picked just for the saves/being a known name.  Chris Martin meanwhile has pretty much the same innings total but a sub-1 WHIP and a 1.73 ERA so he could've been another token middle relief guy to make it.  If they had taken a Tigers reliever and insisted on naming another starter they could've thrown Bryan Bello in there who is at least respectable.