The Comic Book Thread (spoilers)

[Just Joe]

17 hours ago, Little Red Srarvette said:

I feel like a Donald Trump supporter for thinking this but I'm just tired of "Let's replace established hero with a minority or flip genders! Won't that be shocking?" No not really. It's old and tired and really lazy now. Introduce this new character. I'm sure they could be great with a decent writer but there is no need to remove every single old hero and replace them. There are 3 Captain Americas, 3 Spidermen, 2 Wolverines even though 1 just goes by Logan, 2 Hulks and I am sure Tony will come back and there will be 2 Iron Men. There might even be 2 Thors again eventually. I mean fuck man

To me it seems like they're trying to capitalise on all this cosplay stuff.

[Benji]

God. Reading all this makes me miss that golden period of 06-08. Some of this stuff is so stupid at the minute, even by comic book standards. It feels really insulting that they can't build more ground up original female characters than they have. "Here's your leg up from a male character, because you couldn't do it on your own". It's tacky and readers deserve better.

[JasonM]

17 hours ago, Little Red Srarvette said:

I feel like a Donald Trump supporter for thinking this but I'm just tired of "Let's replace established hero with a minority or flip genders! Won't that be shocking?" No not really. It's old and tired and really lazy now. Introduce this new character. I'm sure they could be great with a decent writer but there is no need to remove every single old hero and replace them. There are 3 Captain Americas, 3 Spidermen, 2 Wolverines even though 1 just goes by Logan, 2 Hulks and I am sure Tony will come back and there will be 2 Iron Men. There might even be 2 Thors again eventually. I mean fuck man

Also don't forget the three spider-women (J-Drew, Silk, Spider-Gwen). As a whole the whole 'Spiderverse' is riduclously bloated with every single possible character and their dogs getting their own runs.

Either way,

As a whole I don't mind new characters, of course it's 'meh-worthy' that they replace popular established name at the drop of a hat with barely any build-up (see the new Iron-Man). I like Sam-Cap because his ascension to becoming the Cap was a move that made sense in-character and in-story, it was an organic progression. Jane Foster being Thor I can also even get behind, because the writing of Thor is absolutely top notch in every way.

The new Iron Man though, I have no issues it's a black woman, some issues that she's only 15 and already made herself an extremely advanced piece of equipment, but my biggest issue is that she has only existed since #7 (May 2016). We know nothing of the character, yet Tony Stark somehow decides to give a 15 year old kid the keys to the Iron castle and let her roll with becoming the newest Iron Man (or whatever else her name will be). 
It's barely set up at all, and it's not really greatly written, and it just smacks of either Bendis or the editor in chief deciding they need a young black female character to tap into that young black woman demographic. It's just not organic, it's not well thought of, and whilst i'm not like the other part of the internet in claiming that i'll never read Marvel again and bla bla bla, I do find it a bit of an annoying turn of events.

Tony Stark will continue to exist, and no doubt he'll re-iron himself in due time. But it just reeks of ham-fisted attempts to get buzz. Like Steve Rogers being HYDRA, but much much worse in set-up and operation.

It just feels lazy in every way.

[brenchill]

8 minutes ago, Benji said:

God. Reading all this makes me miss that golden period of 06-08. Some of this stuff is so stupid at the minute, even by comic book standards. It feels really insulting that they can't build more ground up original female characters than they have. "Here's your leg up from a male character, because you couldn't do it on your own". It's tacky and readers deserve better.

Yeah, as a new comic book reader, I'm not looking forward to this stuff at all.  I just about accepted Bucky as Captain America... 3 Spidermen, 2 Thors and a couple of Iron-Men is going to be difficult...

[Just Joe]

Iron Man is literally meant to be a Privileged White Male Dickhead.

[brenchill]

Just now, Just Joe said:

Iron Man is literally meant to be a Privileged White Male Dickhead.

I grew to hate Tony Stark pretty quickly.

[Just Joe]

I wonder what's next, perhaps a transgender mixed race wheelchair using vegan Punisher?

[Johnny Latino Heat]

When it comes to being 3 Spider-Men or 3 Spider-Women, can we count the Web Warriors as well? Because if so, those numbers rise up to, like, 8 or so Spider-Men and at least 6 Spider-Women.

 

@Just Joe Well, they already did a black Punisher storyline... that was Frank Castle after some plastic surgery... yeah. 90's stuff.

[Avenged Probably]

Marvel has got some pretty good original female characters on the go at the moment too though, I say original, I mean they're new version of pre-existing characters or a new character with a pre-existed moniker, but both Kamala Khan/Ms. Marvel and Spider-Gwen are two of my favourite books right now.  

[Just Joe]

Just now, Johnny Latino Heat said:

When it comes to being 3 Spider-Men or 3 Spider-Women, can we count the Web Warriors as well? Because if so, those numbers rise up to, like, 8 or so Spider-Men and at least 6 Spider-Women.

 

@Just Joe Well, they already did a black Punisher storyline... that was Frank Castle after some plastic surgery... yeah. 90's stuff.

Are there more Spideys now than there was in the Clone Series? 

[Benji]

No need to take the piss out of it Joe (I know you're only joking, but it is a subect worth discussing ). It's good for comics to explore this stuff. Kids read and we're only going to move forward as people if we're more accepting, and the best way to do that is by showing kids people of different backgrounds so they don't see them as weird.

As a kid we all learned a lot about how similar we all are from our kids shows, it was a staple of 90s kids shows to have a varied ethnic cast, so why not expand that variety to other things that need the attention?

[JasonM]

1 minute ago, Johnny Latino Heat said:

When it comes to being 3 Spider-Men or 3 Spider-Women, can we count the Web Warriors as well? Because if so, those numbers rise up to, like, 8 or so Spider-Men and at least 6 Spider-Women.

 

@Just Joe Well, they already did a black Punisher storyline... that was Frank Castle after some plastic surgery... yeah. 90's stuff.

Don't forget Spider-Ham, so you'll also have an anthropomorphic pig-spider thing

[Johnny Latino Heat]

3 minutes ago, Jasonmufc said:

Don't forget Spider-Ham, so you'll also have an anthropomorphic pig-spider thing

 

2 anthropomorphic pig-spider things. After all, Spider-Ham 2099 showed up in one of the latest Web Warriors books.

 

(And it was GLORIOUS!)

Edited July 7, 2016 by Johnny Latino Heat

[Just Joe]

1 minute ago, Benji said:

No need to take the piss out of it Joe. It's good for comics to explore this stuff. Kids read and we're only going to move forward as people if we're more accepting, and the best way to do that is by showing kids people of different backgrounds so they don't see them as weird.

As a kid we all learned a lot about how similar we all are from our kids shows, it was a staple of 90s kids shows to have a varied ethnic cast, so why not expand that variety to other things that need the attention?

So why not introduce new characters, rather than having to shoehorn someone into an already established character? 

[Your Mom]

2 minutes ago, Benji said:

No need to take the piss out of it Joe. It's good for comics to explore this stuff. Kids read and we're only going to move forward as people if we're more accepting, and the best way to do that is by showing kids people of different backgrounds so they don't see them as weird.

As a kid we all learned a lot about how similar we all are from our kids shows, it was a staple of 90s kids shows to have a varied ethnic cast, so why not expand that variety to other things that need the attention?

I think his comment was more to the fact that instead of creating new diverse characters they are just picking a diversity seemingly out of a hat at this point and making an established character that now.

[Benji]

3 minutes ago, Just Joe said:

So why not introduce new characters, rather than having to shoehorn someone into an already established character? 

I know you were taking the piss (I added something into the post in hopes of beating you here, but failed ).

I misread your post as being an issue with them introducing trans/disabled/whatever as just pandering, not the fact it was original characters. My bad.

[Avenged Probably]

To be fair to what Benji said about kids, a little kid is more likely to want to buy an Iron Man comic based on the kid knowing Iron man and thinking its cool, even if it is a different character on the cover. Whereas they're much less likely to pick up an original title with the same young lady on the front. 

[Just Joe]

6 minutes ago, Benji said:

I know you were taking the piss (I added something into the post in hopes of beating you here, but failed ).

I misread your post as being an issue with them introducing trans/disabled/whatever as just pandering, not the fact it was original characters. My bad.

I'm all for more inclusion, I just think changing character to something else is a bit "but she's got a new hat!".

Stuff like this is awesome though. 
http://www.itv.com/news/2016-06-23/cartoonist-inspired-by-daughter-with-spina-bifida-creates-comic-strip-where-disabled-superheroes-save-the-world/

[GoGo Yubari]

 

7 minutes ago, Just Joe said:

So why not introduce new characters, rather than having to shoehorn someone into an already established character? 

It's a design flaw in superhero comics. I don't know how many cool, original characters I've seen get introduced by some creative team only to get fed to the woodchipper by some writer down the line. I think Marvel views superhero names like pro wrestling views titles; they exist to get someone over and build up a degree of credibility.

I mean, the only character immediately coming to mind when I think of a fully organic success on Marvel's part is Jessica Jones, who just so happened to be created by the guy who has shaped the tone of the entire company for the last fifteen years. Had Bendis not gradually amassed more and more power over time, I bet that wouldn't have happened either.

[Benji]

You know who I loved? Cloud 9. In Avengers Initiative. Is she in anything at the minute?