AMC's "The Walking Dead"

[Herr Matzat]

It's two episodes. There's only so many characters you can flesh out without overloading the audience. Give it a little bit of time.

135 Minutes are a more time most movies get to build a propper relation betwen characters, story and the audiance. And the problem issent that the charcters arent fleshed out yet, the problem is the way that they are introduced and portraied. I´ll Not recap anything that already was said in that direction. There is good wrting and good character design (look at terriers, boardwalk empire, the shield) and there issent. - TWD clearly suffers from "issent".

Again, i see Shows like Dexter that are aimed at an audiance that likes to get a dummed down to the core basics character architypes in their shows universe. I see it being able to be sucksessfull with that formular because there are a lot people outthere that just don´t care.

But it´s not anywere near the qualety of the comic right now because what the comic did absolutly amazing was having almost everything in shades of grey. And yes, even in the first issues, wen there was "no time yet" making it feel right was still possible.

Kirkmans writing is a mastery of a slow build, there are a lot of hints on whats comming, sometimes soon, sometimes in the far future. You would never get something written to obviusly be hate like the way Shane is. There is no shades of grey, there is no two sides of the medal. They portray him in a way that even the dumbest member of the audiance knows "i am suposed to hate him.

Comic spoilers about Shane in the comics storyline.

In the comic shane is a leader of the survivers. Just like on the TV Show. Lori sais "we would not have made it without him" - He is happy that rick is alive (though we don´t know yet that he had sex with lori) - Rick and Shane go on a hunting trip and it´s all fine and dandy. Just by the end of this issue you see him looking jellus at lori huging rick.

A little later we see him and lauri talking, he acts like somebody in love, somebody sad at the lose of love. But not like an asshole. The sex is portrait as "that one night". So no rapesex on a regular basis.

These are just three sceenes. You don´t even guess whats comming. And you don´t need him to be an asshole anytime he is in a pannel.

Now problems slowly start, it´s winter, it´s to cold to camp, rick wants to move, shane dossent. The first glims of conflict, but they both got their points and you don´t naturaly feel 100% pushed into saing "Rick FTW". They just disagree with Shane showing a little tension from loosing the lone leader role.

Next the camp gets atackt, a cupple of people die. This causes rick to even more insist on moving the camp becaus it is to close to Zombie Central Atlanta.

A little later Rick tells Shane they need to talk, Shane who is loosing his control over the camp and clearly suffers from frinds getting killed slightly starts going insane hitting rick in the face. Everyone looks at him in shock wich causes him to be driven away even further. He runs of in the woods, rick follows him to talk some sens into him. Shane is fully loosing it telling us how everything was Ricks fault and how perfect it was before he came along - it ends up with Shane pulling a gun and carl, ricks son, shooting Shane to save Rick.

All of this also feels a lot more natural becaus it happens over the cause of, at least, days. And i don´t see the problem of portaing shane like this on the TV Show and useing these few sceens, and/or new ones, to portrait his slow turn into insanety. Instead he is just a flat out asshole from the get go.

Edited November 14, 2010 by Michael Matzat on a Plane

[Benji]

What Matz put in spoilers > Thread. That's why I don't like the Shane casting; the guy has a face I want to punch and his portrayal of the character just makes it worse.

[Herr Matzat]

Liked this weeks episode a lot better. There still are some flaws in the assholyness of some chacters but i am afraid thats something we will have to live with since Darabond is a steven king filmmaker and his novels tend to have a ton of over the top assholes. So it´s gotta be the wifebeater, the lieing about dead partners cop... but it wassent as terrible as in episode two.

The opening Sceene with Merle was the first time i felt somekind of terror or horror from the show. So that was great. Yet i am kinda disapointed that they realy made him cut of his hand. I still fully expect him to be the person that inflicts the first human death on this show.

I liked Merles brother a lot more than Merle. I can get an angry redneck, esp. wen his brother just got left behind in zombie central. Just like with Lori in episode two i did not get why he went of huntin alone, the comic always made a big deal out of staing together and keeping watch over night. He´s just alone in his cabrio car sleeping, good luck with that.

Dale gets the Glen love. He feels casted perfect and dos a good crossover of what can be drawn from the comic and is needed for a TV Show.

The deerzombie was a nice comic moment, but i was surprised how they basicly punished the zombie instead of just ending him.

[Asuka's Gonna Kill You]

It's two episodes. There's only so many characters you can flesh out without overloading the audience. Give it a little bit of time.

It's Maztat, you only need to see his complaints on True Blood to know how over the fucking top he looks into things at times.

Episode three was great overall. Glenn continues to be awesome, Shane continues to be a massive cunt and Rick is of course fantastic. Just loving the gore in this, top stuff.

[Herr Matzat]

It's two episodes. There's only so many characters you can flesh out without overloading the audience. Give it a little bit of time.

It's Maztat, you only need to see his complaints on True Blood to know how over the fucking top he looks into things at times.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAvf-lyAF0o

[DMN in the House]

As far as them making mistakes in regard to survival, that's easy to handwave away. None of them are survival experts, not that I now of, and some are smarter than others. The chick didn't know how to use a gun properly, is everyone going to know how? No. Merle was probably their best shooter, so they took him, simple as. It's not rocket science, and it makes sense.

[Benji]

Whilst I agree, Matz does go over the top with dislike sometimes, I honestly don't disagree with him in this instance. In fact I usually take issue with the fact he has a tendency to just irrationally dislike stuff, but I'd say he's probably been giving more constructive criticism on this thread than a lot of people have across the entire board.

Also, he posted Beeker; so he's awesome.

[I Don't Mind]

It's two episodes. There's only so many characters you can flesh out without overloading the audience. Give it a little bit of time.

You would never get something written to obviusly be hate like the way Shane is. There is no shades of grey, there is no two sides of the medal. They portray him in a way that even the dumbest member of the audiance knows "i am suposed to hate him.

Of all the stuff I disagree with you on, this is the biggest one. I don't hate Shane, especially after the last episode. I know I'm supposed to hate Shane, but I think even Shane kind of hates Shane. He's a flawed human being, but he's still a human being.

Pro:

- He's keeping an entire camp alive when he could be looking out for numero uno. He even took a cokehead like Merle and his brother into the group because they're human beings.

- He's maintaining authority while showing everyone due respect until they step way overline. Ex: He could have doused Ed's fire when he threw the extra log on and sent him back to his tent for even breaking the rules. He's not a tyrant, he's still a good-hearted cop trying to protect people over everything else.

- He geniunely cares for Lori and Carl and has adopted them as his own. And they seem to genuinely care for him right back (Lori probably not so much now that she discovered he lied to her about Rick's death, but that brings me to-)

- Lori seems like the type that would have stayed in her home despite the chaos holding onto a shred of hope that Rick would come out of his coma. Shane seems like the type that would tell Lori Rick was dead because there was a 99% chance he was, and there was a 99% chance she would be too if she and Carl didn't leave their home.

Con:

- He does love a married woman and wishes she was his own. But that seems understandable considering he thought she was widowed and they seemed to have a relationship going on.

- We see him have sex with this married woman, but it struck me that it was Lori's intention to go into the woods for sex with Shane. Thats why she told Carl to stay behind, so they could have alone time. The only thing that made the act out to be sinister is that we the viewers knew Rick was alive and had to watch Lori put her "dead husband's" ring out of her view.

- In Shane's last scene of episode 3 we watch him not try too-too hard to stop Rick from going back into the lion's pit, and give him four bullets for assisted suicide. Do we know that's how many bullets were actually in the bag? Do we know that Shane was hoping Rick wouldn't make it back? Do we know if that's actually a humane gesture? It seems like a lot of the characters would rather put a bullet through their own head than be slowly devoured. That seems like the definition of gray.

I would say that while Shane is one of the seediest portrayed to people who aren't looking in-depth, he's very well-rounded and the most human of anyone. Lori on the other hand is just as guilty as Shane. She didn't tell Rick she's been fucking his best friend, she didn't let Rick explain himself, and like Shane, I think she could have done more to try to convince Rick to stay. Maybe she already let her heart move on when she thought Rick was dead?

[Herr Matzat]

None of them are survival experts, not that I now of, and some are smarter than others. The chick didn't know how to use a gun properly, is everyone going to know how?

I don´t know if i posted this here before. It´s not Z-Day. It´s weeks, maybe even Month into the apocalypse. Do you think you would not be able to shoot a gun by now, especialy if you take trips into a city that maybe even contains up to a Million Zombies?

Same with Glen and the Car. Simple rule. Noise = Zombies = Bad. He even overtook the truck with a bunch of other people that maybe could have turned it of. It just felt realy strange wen he came in making a lot of noise and Dale is like "Ah, thats ok, you glen, your the fun guy, but wen the wifebeater puts a log into the fire we´ll tell him of good."

Keeping a smal fire makes a lot of sens aswell, but no one would have nitpicked the still pritty small fire while any kind of noise had a two Episode buildup as being bad.

To me, such smal things creat a big amount of the "feel" a show or movie has. A world filled with Zombies is fake, of cause it is. But if you creat a universe that sticks to it´s rules it will feel more real to anyone. Even to the people that do not notice how it could be better. - And i also pointed out before that i don´t realy look at these things frame by fram. I just watch a show and i am just like "WTF, that dident make any sense at all." and it draws me away from having a good expirice (call it a curse if it makes you happy. ;-) ). Thats why i feel so much love for Shows like The Wire, The Shield, Terriers or Movies like Fight Club. There is very little to no "WTF that dident make sens" moments. And what makes em even better is that wen watching em over and over again you don´t notic errors, you notice how amazing stuff was planed and build up, see little things you only notice on a second or third view. Thats 100% love.

But back to topic.

Comic spoiler about Hands

I think there is only so many hands to be cut of in a run of a TV Show. I feel that Rick get to keep his hand now that Merle has cut of his.

I also wonder how they explain Merle not being on the roof. Should be hard enough cutting your hand of without passing out 15 times, but the door was still shut and i don´t see a freeshly dehandet man to jump from house to house like Glen did in the comic. (i actualy thought they eliminated that because it might just not be possible to do in Atlanta)

So the questions are, is he just lieing there? Will T-Dawg bite it 5 Minutes into the next episode by the hand of Merle? And were did the Zombies go? Did someone lure them away or are "the vatos" the people Rick saw in the choper? Did they land and get Merle? Maybe even cut of his Hand?

Edited November 15, 2010 by Michael Matzat on a Plane

[Asuka's Gonna Kill You]

None of them are survival experts, not that I now of, and some are smarter than others. The chick didn't know how to use a gun properly, is everyone going to know how?

I don´t know if i posted this here before. It´s not Z-Day. It´s weeks, maybe even Month into the apocalypse. Do you think you would not be able to shoot a gun by now, especialy if you take trips into a city that maybe even contains up to a Million Zombies?

Same with Glen and the Car. Simple rule. Noise = Zombies = Bad. He even overtook the truck with a bunch of other people that maybe could have turned it of. It just felt realy strange wen he came in making a lot of noise and Dale is like "Ah, thats ok, you glen, your the fun guy, but wen the wifebeater puts a log into the fire we´ll tell him of good."

Keeping a smal fire makes a lot of sens aswell, but no one would have nitpicked the still pritty small fire while any kind of noise had a two Episode buildup as being bad.

To me, such smal things creat a big amount of the "feel" a show or movie has. A world filled with Zombies is fake, of cause it is. But if you creat a universe that sticks to it´s rules it will feel more real to anyone. Even to the people that do not notice how it could be better. - And i also pointed out before that i don´t realy look at these things frame by fram. I just watch a show and i am just like "WTF, that dident make any sense at all." and it draws me away from having a good expirice (call it a curse if it makes you happy. ;-) ). Thats why i feel so much love for Shows like The Wire, The Shield, Terriers or Movies like Fight Club. There is very little to no "WTF that dident make sens" moments. And what makes em even better is that wen watching em over and over again you don´t notic errors, you notice how amazing stuff was planed and build up, see little things you only notice on a second or third view. Thats 100% love.

But back to topic.

That's not true though. They were all quite pissed and telling him to turn the alarm off. And it wasn't as simple as 'he should of turned it off', because as he said, he didn't know how to turn it off. This case made sense. People in reality do things differently to others, to say this doesn't make sense or isn't realistic isn't really true.

[Herr Matzat]

He could have stoped and taken a seat in the Truck wen he overtook them. Just as much as asking one of em to turn it of.

By the logic of the show he is responsibl for luring every Zombie in the nearer area into their part of the woods. Even if Dales theory is true dossent change that he turned "the hills" area they are in into one gigant car alarm. So basicly he is to blame for whatever Z atack there is comming. - I would have hit him hard and moved the camp ASAP. They were pissed for.. like 3 seconds.

[Boogey131]

I get how people don't like how Shane has been portrayed, personally I do, he is portrayed exactly as I saw him in the comics. He is a leader for the group and until Rick showed up the appointed "sheriff" who is confronted with the fallout for his actions.

Criticising the show though for the instincts of the survivors isn't fair though. Smart TV does not mean every character is going to be smart, or that smart people only make smart choices. It wasn't smart for Lori and Shane to sneak off into the woods, but in a bleak world like this, they need relief. Sex clouds peoples judgement everyday and I imagine the idea of sneaking off away into dangerous territory(although in their minds not TOO dangerous considering as mentioned in the last episode, the zombie hadn't made it that far out so far) only strengthened the thrill of it. As for Andrea not unlocking her safety, it doesn't matter how long the apocalypse has lasted, not everybody is going to know how to handle a gun properly, especially in stressful situations. I think you can criticise how little depth there are for some characters, but I didn't see any of the characters carrying Max Brooks Zombie Survival Guide, so, just like in traumatic situations like this, people are going to continue to make poor choices.

[Herr Matzat]

First Preview for next week.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VW6gnp4kIY

Edited November 15, 2010 by Michael Matzat on a Plane

[Fanku Kaibutsu]

I've seen brief, vague description of the rest of the episodes in the season...

If it's accurate, it looks like they're going way off from the comic. Something about what is apparently the CDC(though from the description, it's probably not).

[LittleDaniel]

None of them are survival experts, not that I now of, and some are smarter than others. The chick didn't know how to use a gun properly, is everyone going to know how?

Same with Glen and the Car. Simple rule. Noise = Zombies = Bad. He even overtook the truck with a bunch of other people that maybe could have turned it of. It just felt realy strange wen he came in making a lot of noise and Dale is like "Ah, thats ok, you glen, your the fun guy, but wen the wifebeater puts a log into the fire we´ll tell him of good."

Keeping a smal fire makes a lot of sens aswell, but no one would have nitpicked the still pritty small fire while any kind of noise had a two Episode buildup as being bad.

He's a fucking kid, driving a car for what is probably the first time, and if he had driven before he'd never driven something that nice, so of course he wanted to go crazy and drive it. Have you never lived a little? Or do you constantly just take the most prudent course of action in every situation? If I had that car and an empty road like that, there's no way I'd pull over and get in the boring ol' truck.

[Herr Matzat]

You obviusly have not watched the show if you honestly belive that Glen did never drive a car before. We don´t need to have a discusion if you do not care enough to pay atention to whats on the screen. I could not drive the way he did in Atlanta and i have my License for 11 years.

Episode Two

41:34 - 42:08

Glen dirving like a stuntman.

I don´t mind if you think it´s the best show ever. I might even envy you that you can just not notice things and feel the full "zOMG zo assom" power. But we don´t need to have a talk about anything if you just ignore 30 Seconds because you want to feel right.

Edited November 16, 2010 by Michael Matzat on a Plane

[King.]

Noise = zombies takes a backseat to the fact that The Walking Dead = character driven, not a traditional zombie movie. It was done to inform the audience of what type of character Glen is.

[LittleDaniel]

...oh shit, you're right, I've never actually watched this show. My bad!

[Ruki]

...oh shit, you're right, I've never actually watched this show. My bad!

You're such a jerk!

But just watched the 3rd episode, and like the other two, I loved it. Everything Matzat is complaining about? I'm not noticing. Why? Because it's not important and is just nit-picky.

[TKz]

...oh shit, you're right, I've never actually watched this show. My bad!

You're such a jerk!

But just watched the 3rd episode, and like the other two, I loved it. Everything Matzat is complaining about? I'm not noticing. Why? Because it's not important and is just nit-picky.

I love you Ruki. I do, I do.