General Television Thread

[livid]

TV is not produced and meant to be consumed by episode anymore and it hasn't been for awhile. If that were the case, then CSI, et all would be the classic dramas of our time.

There's a reason why places like Metacritic only take reviews of shows that encompass the opinion of an entire season's run because that provides a better indication as to whether or not the show is worth your time. The third episode of the first season doesn't, really.

[Josh]

Community is another one for me anyway

Pretty much the perfect example of a show that ended up being completely different than the pilot.

Or hey, how about the literal example of "give it a season", Parks and Recreation?

Or you know, The Office, which was pretty much horrible until it started doing it's own thing.

Again, I liked all three of these shows from the start. They did improve as they went on, but they had more than just untapped potential when they began. Of course, subjective territory once more, but I'll address your less subjective point: yes, all three shows had unimpressive ratings at first (some continue in that manner) but NBC gave them a chance. This was mostly because all 3 either had/have rabid (albeit small) fanbases or got/get great critical response. Coupled with the fact that NBC generally hasn't had much ratings success for a long time now, this made these shows worth the gamble.

But I'm not arguing for better ratings or bust (that's how most of CBS' shows that I hate keep going), I'm arguing for the right and reasonableness of an individual viewer to demand a certain base standard of quality in the early goings of a show. If I stop watching a show because I didn't like the first 3 episodes, yet you keep watching said show because you did like those episodes, then fair enough. If someone's sticking with a show because they just want it to be better than it is, that seems strange to me.

The assumption I'm left with is that that person stays with those shows because they want more shows to watch - either out of more options for temporary distractions or for wishful thinking that more shows will mean more quality. I actually have a similar motivation in dropping shows I personally find to be mediocre or worse - I'm hoping the quality stuff will remain, the filler will go away, and better shows will replace the filler or I'll simply be left with a more narrow range of options with better overall quality.

I'm suddenly very glad none of you have any actual sway on what shows get picked up, or we wouldn't have half as much on television to choose from.

Yeah, we'd have fewer and better shows on with writers who were competent and didn't need three hours of television to decide "what kind of show they're going to do" when movies run for two hours and somehow figure out all that shit in time.

Just because you watch both does not mean you can compare them as if they are the same thing. Apples to oranges, man.

While there is a difference in pacing a 22 hour season and a 2 hour movie, that difference does not mean you should expect less quality at the start of a TV show than the start of a movie. Plenty of shows have managed to start off well and maintain or improve that quality over time. (My list would include a lot of shows already being discussed here: Breaking Bad, Parks and Rec, Community, etc.) Never mind the fact that the lines between different forms of media and content delivery are being blurred more and more as time goes on, technology advances, and entertainment business models change.

[livid]

Plenty of shows have started out well but plenty haven't and my point is that not all shows start the same way. It's not about expecting less quality, it's about understanding that not all shows evolve or tell story at the same pace.

[Josh]

What I'm saying is that it's entirely possible for a show to evolve past what it starts as into something great, I can forgive a rocky start if it results in that. I'm not going to give up on something with potential after three episodes because it hasn't realized that potential in three episodes. Not every show is perfect from the start. I never once said they're not doing their duty or any of this shit, I'm saying you can't expect to experience everything a show has to offer if the only time you're going to put in is barely any at all.

No one's arguing that a show can't or won't improve over time or that they may have different identities at different point in their lifetime, but every episode - including the first few - should be trying to deliver some standard level of entertainment that separates it somehow from the many other options a viewer has for spending their time.

Plus, just because I drop a show early on doesn't mean I'll never return. If enough people over a long enough period of time keep telling me to try it again, I may give it another shot. That said, I will admit I can't recall any shows that have worked this way for me. But it does work for a lot of people, and it's perfectly reasonable way to consume entertainment.

TV is not produced and meant to be consumed by episode anymore and it hasn't been for awhile. If that were the case, then CSI, et all would be the classic dramas of our time.

There's a reason why places like Metacritic only take reviews of shows that encompass the opinion of an entire season's run because that provides a better indication as to whether or not the show is worth your time. The third episode of the first season doesn't, really.

Yes, a lot of television has changed to a format where watching previous episodes helps inform the viewers experience of the newer episodes. Bigger stories are being told over a longer period of time. But again, what about those first few episodes before there's any backstory? There's no reason the initial character development and story progression can't be entertaining from square one.

Plus, CSI and its ilk are not the only remaining examples of self-contained episodes or similar models. I believe Louie is a show that people on both sides of this discussion tend to enjoy, yet 80% or more of its episodes can be understood perfectly without the viewer having seen any of the others.

[Benjamin]

Huh, I thought I was the only one who liked the first season of Parks and Rec.

Also, I agree with Tkz and Livid, if only because there are a ton of shows that I would have missed out on watching had I stopped at the first few episodes.

Boardwalk Empire was like that. It was getting labelled as a boring show with too slow pacing, but it's one of the best shows on TV.

Speaking of Boardwalk, this week's episode:

Kelly MacDonald!

[Benji]

People - we aren't saying we want these shows cancelled or that we'll never watch again. What we're saying is that we, after three or so episodes, do not have a vested interest in the shows, and that we've chosen to give that time to other shows that may actually interest us. Rather than watching 24 episodes of a series I might maybe like, I can watch three, judge my early opinion, and if I don't like it then save those remaining 21 hours to seven other shows that we could well like and get genuinely interested in. We're not saying we want them cancelled or that we'll never come back, literally all we're saying is that we won't be watching in the early going because the show hasn't gripped us.

Heck, I didn't particularly care for Avatar: TLA at first, but I went back later and marathoned the entire three seasons, and just look back at my comments on that in this thread recently. Same with the above post and Boardwalk Empire's first season.

[KONGO]

TV is not produced and meant to be consumed by episode anymore and it hasn't been for awhile. If that were the case, then CSI, et all would be the classic dramas of our time.

There's a reason why places like Metacritic only take reviews of shows that encompass the opinion of an entire season's run because that provides a better indication as to whether or not the show is worth your time. The third episode of the first season doesn't, really.

If it is presented as a show that's on once a week for a set amount of time, that's the amount of space they should tell a coherent story (whether that is or is not part of a larger story), and that is the amount of time that I'll take the episode in. Don't care if the writers had something else in mind. If you can't write to medium then you're not good at that type of writing, bottom line.

[Your Mom]

Scandal is so good!

[Benjamin]

Man, I love Lizzie Caplan, but Michael Sheen is undoubtedly carrying Masters of Sex right now.

[The Sandman]

Someone mentioned Smallville on last page, i've been rewatching it from dvd lately and it doesn't get good after three or even ten episodes, it barely does in three seasons. I didn't even remember how terrible these first few seasons were with all the Clark/Lana drama, if i remember correctly it takes to about season five or something like that when it becomes really good. It amazes me how it stayed on for ten years.

[TKz]

Someone mentioned Smallville on last page, i've been rewatching it from dvd lately and it doesn't get good after three or even ten episodes, it barely does in three seasons. I didn't even remember how terrible these first few seasons were with all the Clark/Lana drama, if i remember correctly it takes to about season five or something like that when it becomes really good. It amazes me how it stayed on for ten years.

That's what I said. Smallville takes pretty much 6 seasons to improve. But it was totally worth it for the last few seasons once they finally knew what the fuck they wanted the show to be.

[Tyrone]

Was hoping for a bit more out of the finale, though, if I'm being honest. Still satisfying, but Welling not being in the full suit was a bit of a downer.

[TKz]

Was hoping for a bit more out of the finale, though, if I'm being honest. Still satisfying, but Welling not being in the full suit was a bit of a downer.

Yeah, the last few episodes were a total let down. Should've called it at Season 9, I think. They were never going to top Zod, especially not with the budget they had towards the end.

[Khain]

Friday Night Lights was beautiful

Edited October 14, 2013 by Khain

[Benji]

I literally just finished that tonight. Great show.

[Khain]

The ending was one Jason Street away from being perfect.

[Szumi]

Season 9 was definitely my favorite season og Smallville, partly do to how bad ass Callum Blue was as Zod. He just owned the role. However, the downer was that the season had two awesome arcs - the Kandorians stuff and Checkmate - but the way the writers mapped it out, they kind of killed one another's flow. By the time they wrapped up Checkmate, I didn't care as a viewer about Kandorians trying to assimilate into Earth or them looking for their powers, especially since Zod already had them. Checkmate made you not care too much about the Kandorians, and then all of a sudden, they tried to make us care again about Faora and the others. It just didn't work for me.

Season 8 struggled much in the same way. The Doomsday and Lois/Clark romance was coming along nicely, but then it all got pushed aside when they brought Lana back in. Lana being backed really killed a lot of their early momentum, but the episodes focused around her and the hunt for Lex was my favorite part of the season.

[Benji]

The ending was one Jason Street away from being perfect.

I felt like his arc was complete...

... he didn't really need to make any further appearances beyond his scenes with Coach earlier in the season, which was a nice touch. I did hope to see Landry back though, particularly to celebrate Julie and Matt's good news. My one issue with the ending was how so many couples got happy endings in the same episode, I felt like that should have been spread out across the season.

[Khain]

The ending was one Jason Street away from being perfect.

I felt like his arc was complete...

... he didn't really need to make any further appearances beyond his scenes with Coach earlier in the season, which was a nice touch. I did hope to see Landry back though, particularly to celebrate Julie and Matt's good news. My one issue with the ending was how so many couples got happy endings in the same episode, I felt like that should have been spread out across the season.

I was expecting him to show up when Billy and Tim were building the house. Texas Forever was his dream at the start of the series too, but yeah, he moved on from that. I felt like the ending was kinda rushed, they tried to put too much stuff in the final episode.

[Benji]

The ending was one Jason Street away from being perfect.

I felt like his arc was complete...

... he didn't really need to make any further appearances beyond his scenes with Coach earlier in the season, which was a nice touch. I did hope to see Landry back though, particularly to celebrate Julie and Matt's good news. My one issue with the ending was how so many couples got happy endings in the same episode, I felt like that should have been spread out across the season.

I was expecting him to show up when Billy and Tim were building the house. Texas Forever was his dream at the start of the series too, but yeah, he moved on from that. I felt like the ending was kinda rushed, they tried to put too much stuff in the final episode.

Ditto, and yet I also felt the episodes before it started to feel like they were stalling, so they clearly had time for it and just plotted it poorly. Still, the Riggins brothers being united at the end made me smile, they were my favourite characters for very different reasons to each other. I did love the touch of leaving that championship game up to the imagination, and the cut in that was beautiful.