The 2010 NFL Thread

[JStarr]

As for Whitehurst...he's a 3rd year pro. The Chargers have been a playoff team for the past 3 seasons, why the hell would you make your less experienced QB your back up if you're constantly in a playoff race? Seriously, are you saying that in Whitehurst's first two seasons, the Chargers should have played him over Volek if Rivers got injured?

Just finished his fourth year, actually. And this year, there wasn't much "playoff race" to speak of, since they won their division by five games and the #2 seed and bye by three games. Wouldn't it stand to reason that if anyone saw anything in him at any point, they would have promoted him by now, maybe this year, and moved Volek out? Give him the snaps in Week 17 that Volek got and let him prove whether or not they have anything.

Maybe he will turn out to be something, I'm just not exactly sure what that's based on.

He was a third-round pick in '06, despite a 1:1 TD-int ratio over his career at Clemson. Somebody liked something, but no one seems sure exactly what. But, Seattle paid a 3rd and moved down 20 picks in the 2nd, then signed the guy to a $4M-per-year contract. Carroll and Schneider are putting it out there for this guy, but it almost seems like activity just for activity's sake.

[livid]

But he was obviously talented enough to be a 3rd round pick so it's not like he hasn't been viewed as having potential before. So I don't really get why people are that surprised that people are looking to see if he can be the guy. And no, they wouldn't have necessarily promoted him by now because even if he's talented, a team will always be in a better position with a veteran backup QB to take the reigns should something happen to the starter. You really shouldn't be put in a position to thrust a guy you're developing into a large role unless you absolutely have to and fortunately for the Chargers, they weren't forced to do that, even if Rivers were to get hurt because they would have had Volek which would allow Whitehurst to continue his development. Not to mention, I wouldn't say it's out of the question that San Diego drafted him with the sole intent of turning him into future picks anyways.

And now, the Seahawks seem to have determined that he's developed enough that they felt comfortable pulling the trigger and giving him a chance. And while none of us know exactly why they feel comfortable doing so, they have a lot more resources to determine this than any of us do. And this is why the long 3 page debate started because Mysterio was acting like a know-it-all regarding the deal and people disagreed.

[Mysterio2000X]

If after four years in the league he still hasn't managed to beat out or even seriously compete with Billy Volek, chances are very unlikely he's going to be worth what Seattle gave up for him. Charlie isn't exactly a newly born puppy nowadays, if he was truly better than Volek, it'd be stupid to not start him over Billy, whether he has Billy's experience or not. But, I don't know the intricacies of how San Diego likes to work their players, or if Turner happens to have some sort of man crush on Volek, or something of that sort.

[livid]

You can see talent before it's developed and not all players develop at the same rate so it's possible he wouldn't have been ready to be put in a position where he would have to play a lot before. Tony Romo didn't play for the first 3 years of his NFL career and he's obviously playing better than Drew Bledsoe did for the Cowboys but that's not to say that if he were put in a similar situation 2 years earlier than the one he was in in 2006, that the results would be the same. And if you put a player in before in a position he's not ready for, he's never going to reach his maximum potential.

And by having Volek as their solid #2, that would allow Whitehurst all the time he needed to develop so that the Chargers would be able to utilize his developed talents at a later date, as opposed to possibly having to put him in before he's ready. It just makes too much sense for the Chargers to not put themselves at a potential risk like that if they were in a position to easily avoid it, which they were by being able to afford having a veteran backup while Whitehurst sat and developed.

Matt Hasselbeck (who never played in the regular season before he was traded to the Seahawks because he was behind Favre) is another example and there have been numerous cases throughout the years where a team has traded one of their backups after they've developed and that player has gone on to have a nice career.

[Mysterio2000X]

You can see talent before it's developed and not all players develop at the same rate so it's possible he wouldn't have been ready to be put in a position where he would have to play a lot before. Tony Romo didn't play for the first 3 years of his NFL career and he's obviously playing better than Drew Bledsoe did for the Cowboys but that's not to say that if he were put in a similar situation 2 years earlier than the one he was in in 2006, that the results would be the same. And if you put a player in before in a position he's not ready for, he's never going to reach his maximum potential.

And by having Volek as their solid #2, that would allow Whitehurst all the time he needed to develop so that the Chargers would be able to utilize his developed talents at a later date, as opposed to possibly having to put him in before he's ready. It just makes too much sense for the Chargers to not put themselves at a potential risk like that if they were in a position to easily avoid it, which they were by being able to afford having a veteran backup while Whitehurst sat and developed.

Matt Hasselbeck (who never played in the regular season before he was traded to the Seahawks because he was behind Favre) is another example and there have been numerous cases throughout the years where a team has traded one of their backups after they've developed and that player has gone on to have a nice career.

It's not simply that Whitehurst hasn't received any genuine playing time, it's that he's never been any higher than #3 on the depth chart, period. If, after 3 years, he hasn't developed to the point of at least challenging Volek's grip on the back-up spot, what are the chances he'll make for even a quality starter?

Again, Whitehurst is not a fresh pup full of potential at this point; he's been in the league longer than some of the marquee names, yet hasn't proven himself to Norv Turner, a supposed QB guru, to be good enough to even be trusted on the off chance that the tough-as-all-hell Phillip Rivers can't physically compete in a game. Hell, San Diego was surprised that they managed to get what they did from Seattle - they weren't asking for that, from what I read, and it was Seattle that offered the deal that ended up going down. No other team, not even San Diego, thought he was worth anything more than a third (and even then, the only other team that showed any interest - AZ - has an extra 3rd due to the Boldin deal, so it wouldn't of been as big of a deal, anyways). Now, either Pete Carroll is a brilliant talent evaluator and he caught something that all other teams/personnel guys missed, or he overpaid.

Right now, I'm saying he overpaid.

[JStarr]

Like I said before, Week 17 this year was a meaningless game, and would have been the perfect opportunity to trot Whitehurst out instead of Volek, just to see what they had. And they didn't.

$8M is a lot for the Seahawks to bet on a gut feeling.

Anyway, to change the topic a bit, new overtime rule: improvement, or pain in the ass?

I like the first-to-six aspect of it, but I'd still allow the other team a possession, just to allow an entire team to decide its destiny in overtime. Not having one side of the ball even see the field in overtime is like scoring a run in the top of the tenth inning and the home team not being allowed to bat in the bottom half.

Somewhat of an improvement, but still didn't address the core problem.

[livid]

You can see talent before it's developed and not all players develop at the same rate so it's possible he wouldn't have been ready to be put in a position where he would have to play a lot before. Tony Romo didn't play for the first 3 years of his NFL career and he's obviously playing better than Drew Bledsoe did for the Cowboys but that's not to say that if he were put in a similar situation 2 years earlier than the one he was in in 2006, that the results would be the same. And if you put a player in before in a position he's not ready for, he's never going to reach his maximum potential.

And by having Volek as their solid #2, that would allow Whitehurst all the time he needed to develop so that the Chargers would be able to utilize his developed talents at a later date, as opposed to possibly having to put him in before he's ready. It just makes too much sense for the Chargers to not put themselves at a potential risk like that if they were in a position to easily avoid it, which they were by being able to afford having a veteran backup while Whitehurst sat and developed.

Matt Hasselbeck (who never played in the regular season before he was traded to the Seahawks because he was behind Favre) is another example and there have been numerous cases throughout the years where a team has traded one of their backups after they've developed and that player has gone on to have a nice career.

It's not simply that Whitehurst hasn't received any genuine playing time, it's that he's never been any higher than #3 on the depth chart, period. If, after 3 years, he hasn't developed to the point of at least challenging Volek's grip on the back-up spot, what are the chances he'll make for even a quality starter?

Again, Whitehurst is not a fresh pup full of potential at this point; he's been in the league longer than some of the marquee names, yet hasn't proven himself to Norv Turner, a supposed QB guru, to be good enough to even be trusted on the off chance that the tough-as-all-hell Phillip Rivers can't physically compete in a game. Hell, San Diego was surprised that they managed to get what they did from Seattle - they weren't asking for that, from what I read, and it was Seattle that offered the deal that ended up going down. No other team, not even San Diego, thought he was worth anything more than a third (and even then, the only other team that showed any interest - AZ - has an extra 3rd due to the Boldin deal, so it wouldn't of been as big of a deal, anyways). Now, either Pete Carroll is a brilliant talent evaluator and he caught something that all other teams/personnel guys missed, or he overpaid.

Right now, I'm saying he overpaid.

Way to completely ignore most of my point. Again, not every player develops at the same rate and it's entirely possible that while Whitehurst was learning how to play the position in the NFL, that the Chargers didn't want to run the risk of even potentially having to count on him before he's ready so they keep Volek as their safety net should something happen to Rivers. It's about minimizing their potential risk and by keeping Volek as their #2, they don't have to worry about putting Whitehurst in before he's ready and ultimately losing games because of it. Not to mention the effect it would have on Whitehurst who would likely never recover from that situation.

And San Diego was surprised at what they got from Seattle? How the fuck do you know this; got AJ Smith on speed dial? No, you don't. So stop acting like you have insider scoops to situations you're purely speculating on. Not to mention, that for the last time, what San Diego got was the equivalent to what a 3rd round pick would be this year. I covered it a couple pages ago and you couldn't comprehend it then (or just chose to flat out ignore it) so maybe it'll stick this time. The Seahawks don't have a 3rd round pick this year. Well, damn, how the hell are they going to trade for Charlie Whitehurst? Oh wait, there's this thing, it's called the draft pick value chart and by switching seconds and giving them a 3rd next year it's as if...oh my god, it's value equals that of a straight up 3rd round pick this year. So, no Carroll really didn't overpay for anything because it equals that of what the Chargers were asking for.

And Starr, Seattle's not going by their gut on this one. That's like saying they didn't do their homework before getting the guy, which I would imagine is not the case. Just because he hasn't played in a regular season game, doesn't mean that they don't have tape of him, whether it's preseason or hell, even practice. Not to mention that he could've worked out for them as well before they got him.

As far as the new OT rule, I pretty much agree with you on that. I think the reason they think it's better is because most OT's end in FG's but like you said, it still doesn't fix what was the main issue.

[naiwf]

One of the best/fairest OT tweaks I heard was a recent one. If the first team scores any points on their opening possession you would see how much time it took for them to score those points. Let's say they put up a FG in 4:07. Then the second team would need to score a FG or TD in 4:06 or less to win. If they fail to do so the game ends. If the first team doesn't score, then it's sudden death since each team would have had a possession anyway. In essence it would force each team to attack instead of playing for a field goal.

[Lint]

Andy reid said they are listening to trade offers for all three QBs. It was also said they have lowered their asking price for McNabb

Andy Reid has said Donovan McNabb is his starting quarterback heading into the 2010 season.

But the trade rumors around the team's quarterback situation have persisted. And now Reid says offers are being made for all three of the Philadelphia Eagles' quarterbacks -- McNabb, backup Kevin Kolb and former Atlanta Falcons starter Michael Vick.

Reid said Tuesday and again Wednesday that the team is entertaining and evaluating the offers, according to published reports in Philadelphia. He has declined to offer details about the proposals.

"I'm listening [to offers] out there," Reid said Wednesday at the NFC coaches media breakfast, according to Philly.com. "I'm not saying I'm doing anything. But we're keeping our ears open.

"I don't worry about [what other people are saying]. It's an evaluation process right now," he added, according to the Web site. He also said he could see all three quarterbacks remaining with the team.

Reid broached the subject of trade offers on Tuesday.

"This is the truth: Our three quarterbacks are Philadelphia Eagles," Reid said Tuesday, according to The Philadelphia Inquirer. "People are entertaining us with offers. Nothing's been done, but we're evaluating all of them. That's the truth. There's not a lot really going on other than entertaining."

Reid would not address the team's specific plans, according to the report, but said that from a coach's standpoint, the Eagles are in an enviable position.

"There are coaches who dream to be in this situation," Reid said, according to the Inquirer. "I'm not in any hurry to get rid of any of them. Have people talked? Yeah, people have talked. Have we listened? Yeah, we're in the process of listening. The bottom line is if I have all three of them, that's great."

Reid has stated and reiterated that McNabb is the team's starter headed into 2010. But trade rumors have not died down as the team's supporters debate whether it would be best to stick with McNabb, who has brought the team to five NFC Championship Games and a trip to the Super Bowl, or turn the page and give Kolb the keys to the offense.

[DMN in the House]

A few things to touch on.

1. The QB depth chart doesn't really matter past who is number one (and, maybe, who the emergency QB is). Billy Volek likely got the bulk of the reps at 2, but was also likely to be a stop-gap measure. Many teams would go with the younger 'project' for an extended period of time, rather than the veteran, usually because they have more upside. Not saying this is always true, but it might explain why Volek was the 'backup', and Whitehurst was third.

2. Sorry, Chase, but I'm not sure I'd put Ben over McNabb. I'd probably take Donovan to be my starter over Ben, and career wise its not even close, unless you are a 'rings over anything else' guy, in which case Trent Dilfer (who was a capable starter, and new his place in terms of his skills) is better than Dan Marino. Eli is a fair comparison to Ben, and Flacco has the potential to be better. My list, based on who I would want to lead my team in a fantasy draft situation, is;

Peyton Manning

Drew Brees

Tom Brady

Philip Rivers

Aaron Rodgers

Donovan McNabb

Tony Romo

Big Ben

Carson Palmer

Joe Flacco

Throw in Jason Campbell as an honorable mention (look at the nuimbers), and give a shout-out to Kyle Orton (I read somewhere that this was his first season without a winning record as a starter. Denver went 8-8).

3. Overtime should be a 'match or better' situation. One team scores a FG, the other team has to match it to stay alive, or better it to win. In the playoffs this goes until we have a winner, in the regular season we play an extra quarter (unless a team is mid-drive when that quarter ends, at which point we play to the conclusion), with ties brought back.

[Tits McGee]

I will forever miss sudden death.

[Mysterio2000X]

Way to completely ignore most of my point. Again, not every player develops at the same rate and it's entirely possible that while Whitehurst was learning how to play the position in the NFL, that the Chargers didn't want to run the risk of even potentially having to count on him before he's ready so they keep Volek as their safety net should something happen to Rivers. It's about minimizing their potential risk and by keeping Volek as their #2, they don't have to worry about putting Whitehurst in before he's ready and ultimately losing games because of it. Not to mention the effect it would have on Whitehurst who would likely never recover from that situation.

And San Diego was surprised at what they got from Seattle? How the fuck do you know this; got AJ Smith on speed dial? No, you don't. So stop acting like you have insider scoops to situations you're purely speculating on. Not to mention, that for the last time, what San Diego got was the equivalent to what a 3rd round pick would be this year. I covered it a couple pages ago and you couldn't comprehend it then (or just chose to flat out ignore it) so maybe it'll stick this time. The Seahawks don't have a 3rd round pick this year. Well, damn, how the hell are they going to trade for Charlie Whitehurst? Oh wait, there's this thing, it's called the draft pick value chart and by switching seconds and giving them a 3rd next year it's as if...oh my god, it's value equals that of a straight up 3rd round pick this year. So, no Carroll really didn't overpay for anything because it equals that of what the Chargers were asking for.

And Starr, Seattle's not going by their gut on this one. That's like saying they didn't do their homework before getting the guy, which I would imagine is not the case. Just because he hasn't played in a regular season game, doesn't mean that they don't have tape of him, whether it's preseason or hell, even practice. Not to mention that he could've worked out for them as well before they got him.

As far as the new OT rule, I pretty much agree with you on that. I think the reason they think it's better is because most OT's end in FG's but like you said, it still doesn't fix what was the main issue.

You named Tony Romo. Do you really want me to list every other quarterback taken in the 3rd round or later that hasn't panned out? The chances of Charlie turning into anything special or worthwhile are stupid low.

That "learning the position" argument should only apply if a player's still young. As in, one or two years in the league. If after four years he hasn't developed enough to beat out Volek, I doubt he's developed enough to lead the Seahawks once Matt gets hurt again.

It was reported that San Diego weren't expecting what they got for Whitehurst and that Seattle was the one who offered the deal that ended up going down, so chill the fuck out and shut the fuck up. I wasn't stating an opinion, I was stating a fact, and why the fuck would I do so if it's not true?

Yeah, by the trade value chart it seems like a "fair" trade, but for a team with as many holes as Seattle, it's quite a bit different when they give up a fringe first rounder that could have easily filled one of their holes by picking up a Charles Brown, Everson Griffen, Damian Williams, the millions of fringe 1st round defensive backs available, possibly Brian Price/Jared Odrick, etc. However, by moving down 20 spots, they practicaly have guaranteed themselves that they won't have their pick of that litter, and will likely have to take a lesser player or a player at a position that isn't as in need, which in turn hurts Seattle's turnaround and delays it that much more. And obviously, at this point I don't think Charlie'll be worth losing out on one of those guys.

And regardless of that, there was no market for Charlie Whitehurst! Any competent GM should've tried to have driven his price tag down, not blown their load and given up the 38th pick for him. Or, if unable to do that, just moved on. Again, I don't think Charie's worth what was given up for him.

EDIT - ANYWAYS, Jets are the next team to be on Hard Knocks.

http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/jets/2010/03/jets-to-star-in-hbos-hard-knoc.html#ixzz0j79EdwQb

Rex Ryan, lol.

Edited March 25, 2010 by Mysterio2000X

[Evil Chase K]

Apparently it's not 100% certain that we'll get new overtime rules as Goodell has stated that he's gonna talk to the players about it and if they don't like it, they will discuss it again on May 5th.

Why they didn't just wait to vote on May 5th I don't know.

[Trey]

I believe that they approved the rule change for the post season but they didn't for the regular season yet. Goodell is probably just going to see what the players think on changing it for the regular season.

Oh, and isn't there something with if the third QB comes in the starter can't come back in or something of that nature? I thought I read that somewhere when the Eagles were putting Vick as the back-up QB.

[Gene Kiniski]

Let me list the guys who I think are better or who will very soon be better than Roethlisberger, and this ain't a short list: Manning, Brees, Brady, Rivers, Rodgers, Favre, Schaub, Manning (E), Ryan, Flacco, Sanchez, McNabb. I'm ranking Roethlisberger not even top ten because nothing about him grabs me and demands he should be. He's not special, no matter how much Chase and his ilk will complain.

You can keep saying that all you want but that doesn't make it true. The guy's a winner, plain and simple. I realize that as a Ravens' fan you're not exactly a Ben fan and that's fine. But to say guys like Eli, Flacco, and McNabb are better than Ben is absolutely laughable.

Ben is waaay more clutch than Flacco and McNabb, and Eli really has only had one good run.

I'll give you Peyton, Brady and Brees. Rivers and Rodgers need to a win a Championship before they can even be on Ben's level, IMO.

I could give you lots of solid statistical reasons why Ben is a Top 5 NFL QB if you want.

I'm not sure what you're statistical comparisons are, but going with the numbers you would be working with it seems that even Chad Pennington could be a Top 5 NFL QB by your standards.

[Mofoticon]

Rumors going around of a possible McNabb/Asante Samuel for Nnamdi trade.

[Lint]

No!!! We can't lose Asante! Why can't we try to pawn off Sheldon instead! I like Sheldon Brown, but Asante/Nnamdi would be wonderful

But anyway, I came here to post this...

As we've mentioned once or twice, quarterback Tim Tebow's habit of openly expressing his religious beliefs could potentially rub folks the wrong way, especially in a locker room of grown men who choose to keep their beliefs to themselves, who don't share his beliefs at all, and/or who only want to hear "God bless" after they have sneezed.

We're told that Tebow already has gotten a taste of the resistance he might face at the next level.

At the Scouting Combine, the Wonderlic exam is administered to players in groups. The 12-minute test is preceded by some brief instructions and comments from the person administering the test.

Per a league source, after the person administering the test to Tebow's group had finished, Tebow made a request that the players bow their heads in prayer before taking the 50-question exam.

Said one of the other players in response: "Shut the f--k up." Others players in the room then laughed.

We're not passing judgment on this one; we're just passing along what we've heard. And it illustrates the type of challenges that could be faced by the team that drafts Tebow.

That said, some teams might embrace those challenges. The final decision will depend largely on the composition of the team, and the personalities of the coach, the G.M., and the owner.

He better get used to it if he tries to "convert" other players in the NFL. Sure, people like Reggie White, Brian Dawkins etc were/are known to wear their religious beliefs with pride, but they are/were respected veteran players. I don't think it would be as tolerated from a rookie like him

Edited March 26, 2010 by Lint6

[NobBe Nobbs]

Rumors going around of a possible McNabb/Asante Samuel for Nnamdi trade.

This would be the point at which we all said "no, no management would be stupid enough to accept that" if it weren't Oakland.

[Mysterio2000X]

Nnami's cap number next year is beastly (if there's a cap at all), I'm not that surprised he's on the block. Might as well trade him while he's worth something before he leaves them and gets another monster contract elsewhere.

But, still. No. lol, Al Davis.

[GhostMachine]

If the Eagles trade for Nnamdi, it won't be McNabb they trade for him. McNabb has said he won't go to the Bills or Raiders.

The Eagles have said they want a top 42 pick for McNabb, and I don't see any team willing to give that up for him unless McNabb is willing to sign a 2-3 year deal with them rather than just be their QB for one year. And I don't see McNabb being willing to go to a team that won't be a contender. He's said he'd be willing to go to the Vikings, but they're waiting on Favre to make up his mind about whether he's coming back or not. So I don't see that happening unless Favre suddenly decides "fuck it, I'm done for good this time" before the draft, and that's not very likely.

If the Cardinals are smart, they should consider trading for him. Because with Anderson they'll be lucky if they don't finish near the bottom of the whole league, and taking a chance on Leinart is risky.

Edited March 26, 2010 by GhostMachine