The 2012 Summer Transfer Window thread

[GoGo Yubari]

He definitely picked the right city to do drugs and have nobody give a fuck.

[METALMAN]

Funnily enough, I've just finished reading Duff McKagan's book which I'd orginally picked up because I was lying around at work. I wasn't expecting much but it was actually pretty good. Anyway, the impression he gave in that book is that everyone in Seattle is a druggie. Everyone!

But then he forgets all that and moves back to Seattle when he is trying to get clean.

[Hobo]

An aside, but I do hate the attitude from usually English football fans towards the MLS. I've started really paying attention to it this season following the Vancouver Whitecaps. The terminology of sports in the US is different and jarring to hear applied to football but it's certainly not an awful league and it is on the up.

[Dingle]

I don't think many were rubbishing the league, just the choice of names being called 'top talent' when they really weren't. The commentary over there is also the most awful thing I've ever heard. And I've seen Guns and Roses.

[Thrilla]

We watch some Premier League stuff on a FOX Sport stream at the house and the half-time analysis is just strange, it sometimes seems like they're talking about a different sport. I don't know how Warren Barton handles it.

I haven't seen any of the MLS since it was picked up by Channel Five for half a season or so when Beckham first went over.

[Guest mr. potato head]

The commentary over there is also the most awful thing I've ever heard. And I've seen Guns and Roses.

It can be really hit or miss. Arlo White (who does the Seattle games and some national games on NBCSN) is excellent, and I'm quite partial to Luke Wileman (TSN games involving Vancouver, Toronto or Montreal). Some of the ESPN guys are quite shit but they also have Ian Darke when he's available. Most of the non-Seattle local crews are quite bad - in Toronto, for example, your favourite Premier League studio team is actually the *better* of the two local crews.

[Dingle]

It's not just their ability to analyse, it's also the way words are said. I understand that prem-eer is the way that word is spoken over there, but it's a trademark which means it should be said in the correct English way (As in The Premier League, not prem-eer league). And I've heard free kick referred to as 'quick-kick' and throw-in's called 'base throw'. It's just offputting to listen to. I can't really comment too much on the half-time analysis because I don't recall names and I usually only half-listen because, most of the time, I get my analysis from MOTD and that's it.

[Thrilla]

The games I've seen just have the ESPN UK commentators doing the commentary, which is a vast improvement.

[Guest mr. potato head]

It's not just their ability to analyse, it's also the way words are said. I understand that prem-eer is the way that word is spoken over there, but it's a trademark which means it should be said in the correct English way (As in The Premier League, not prem-eer league). And I've heard free kick referred to as 'quick-kick' and throw-in's called 'base throw'. It's just offputting to listen to. I can't really comment too much on the half-time analysis because I don't recall names and I usually only half-listen because, most of the time, I get my analysis from MOTD and that's it.

I've never ever heard 'quick kick' or 'base throw'. Guess I should consider myself fortunate.

[Colly]

[Matt]

So apparently Adam Clayton and Ross McCormack are both going to be transfer listed. Aidan White is probably on his way too since his contract is up. I'm sure we'll sell Snodgrass too when we get offered a 7 figure sum for him. Oh and we're cutting our squad down to 22-23 players (and based on Bates' comments on squad size in the past, that'll include 17 year olds that play 10 minutes of a Carling Cup game) because that's all we can afford, apparently.

I liked playing against Yeovil, anyway

[Thrilla]

Given the financial regulations that are due to come into play, it could be a smart move to get ready now and not risk the points penalities.

[Hobo]

I don't think many were rubbishing the league, just the choice of names being called 'top talent' when they really weren't. The commentary over there is also the most awful thing I've ever heard. And I've seen Guns and Roses.

As I said that as an aside. Related to, if not directly linked to the main discussion.

[Matt]

Given the financial regulations that are due to come into play, it could be a smart move to get ready now and not risk the points penalities.

We spend 35% of our turnover on the playing squad. That's not just wages, that's transfer fees, agents fees, signing-on-fees, performance bonuses. We're not even close to the limit of the FFP rules.

Edit: Okay, apparently McCormack has been offered a new deal and isn't going to be listed (though he might be if he doesn't sign a new deal).

[Lineker]

Yeah, on my phone so I can't list them but you've released 5 and made a further 6 available for transfer.

[Matt]

Yeah, I've seen them. Bruce, Sam, Forssell, Webber and Maik Taylor released. Clayton, Nunez, Paynter, Connolly, O'Brien and Rachubka listed. No-one will take the latter five off us so they'll probably end up having their contracts cancelled. Michael Brown gets a one year extension though

[Lineker]

I thought that Clayton had been one of your better players, no?

[Matt]

He has. And Brown has been one of our worst (except for one or two games).

[HailtotheYo]

Erm, you know that the UK is part of that, right? I mean, maybe you were making a joke, but obviously it exists in the western hemisphere.

Actually it's in both ... but yes, it was a joke more than anything. When people refer to the Western Hemisphere they generally mean the Americas.

I'm not knocking the MLS which is clearly improving, but outside of Boyd (who isn't very good) that's a big list of 'who?'.

Simply because you haven't heard of them ? The key word was 'talented' ... just because these guys haven't moved overseas doesn't mean they aren't talented. Just because the "big 4" leagues aren't chasing them down doesn't mean they aren't talented. There is plenty of "talent" over here in the Americas that is never seen on the other side of the world.

I wasn't 'trolling' or anything like that either, I genuinely don't see the talent that stands out in that list, and I cannot think of any really good imports to the MLS who are not in the twilight of their career.

Stands out compared to what ? Again, not being EPL talent doesn't mean you aren't good. It's relative to who/where we're talking about. It's real easy to be an English soccer fan (or any other of the Big 4) and say that guys you've never heard of aren't talented. You're a fan of the best league in the world. That kind of puts a little bias in how you judge players. I'm speaking in general of course.

Have to agree with everybody who's not HTTK here. MLS *is* getting better year by year, but it's a slow process and it's ridiculous to say any of those names are top-tier talent on a global scale.

I'm sorry, who said top-tier talent on a global scale ?

Although right there in Toronto land you've got Reggie Lambe. At 21 he's already capped 13 times by Bermuda and went through the Ipswich youth set up. He played a few games for Bristol too. Is that a global phenomenon ? No, and I'm not pretending it is. However, to say that at the very least that's not a good, young, talented player signed by the league ? That's not right either.

"Talented and under 30" was the phrase.

I could have listed Federico Puppo. He played for River Plate in Uruguay (2008 Clausura Champions and was part of the team what had the historic run in the 2009 Copa Sudamericana to the semis). At 25 he's a good signing for the league. Sure, he's looked like ass here in his limited time but that doesn't take away from the fact that this is a guy that netted 17 in 57 games for one of the best teams in Uruguay while they had the best run in their history.

Rafael Robayo was the freaking captain at Millonarios FC (Colombia) which is one of the two best teams in Colombia both presently and historically.

Miller Bolanos was one of the best players on the LDU Quito (Ecuador) squad the last three years, including the 2009 Copa Sudamericana winning team as well as the 09 and 10 Recopa Sudamericana winning teams.

Jaime Castrillon has been one of the best players for two of South America's best clubs (Once Caldes, Independiente Medellin - both of Colombia)

I'm not calling these people talent in the same terms that people (most of you) associate with the level of football that you're used to watching or being a fan of. It just gets really old hearing this type of stuff. The general attitude from "over there" is just ... meh ... while the pinnacle of club football leagues may reside in a couple of countries over in Europe, that doesn't mean that talent does lie elsewhere. Being ignorant (not taking a shot or being dick with that) of an entire half of the world's footballing doesn't mean that those players, clubs, etc aren't talented and the like.

:/

[Adam]

I wasn't 'trolling' or anything like that either, I genuinely don't see the talent that stands out in that list, and I cannot think of any really good imports to the MLS who are not in the twilight of their career.

Stands out compared to what ? Again, not being EPL talent doesn't mean you aren't good. It's relative to who/where we're talking about. It's real easy to be an English soccer fan (or any other of the Big 4) and say that guys you've never heard of aren't talented. You're a fan of the best league in the world. That kind of puts a little bias in how you judge players. I'm speaking in general of course.

This all stemmed from the phrase "talented and under 30", but looking back it was actually in reference to Giovani Dos Santos. All the same, I'd rank somebody from the Barcelona youth set-up who has played ample games for a top 20-25 international side and had at least a handful of time playing in sides the calibre of Tottenham and Galatasary as a level of 'talent' above the level of the players you listed. Again the best comparison I can give is to Kris Boyd, who you listed. I saw both Dos Santos and Boyd in the Championship, and in his short time there Dos Santos was awesome. He was clearly a top calibre player, whereas Boyd clearly wasn't. I don't think it's unreasonable to compare those two.

I know you were speaking generally but personally I don't feel I fall into the trap of having my perception incorrectly skewed by the quality of the Premier League. I've seen a large amount of football across the top 5 divisions of England, which believe me is a vast range of ability from the unbelievably sublime to the terribly abysmal. I'd also like to clarify that I never said these players you listed weren't good at all or that being good in the MLS wasn't different to being good in the Premier League. Of course it's different. But in the context of who the discussion was originally centred around, I don't think it was wrong to question that pool of players you listed.

I'd watch the MLS more often if I had access to it, but I don't. It is a league which genuinely intrigues me and I know it has exciting players in it. I used to enjoy watching South American football - Brazil, Argentina, the Copa Libertadores, because there is some absolutely superb football played there. I'm not narrowed to thinking that the be all and end all of football is in the Premier League, La Liga, Serie A and the Bundesliga.

Edited May 2, 2012 by AdamDRFC