EWR Stats and Scenarios in Theory and Practice

[Mick]

If they were last active 8 years ago, what business do they have being in the data?

[Nerf]

Cory Kastle got cancer? That sucks. I used to really like him when I had no taste in wrestling

[TheLastInLine]

How about if we put the whole "playability" vs "completism" thing to the vote? I feel like we're going in circles here. Someone says "delete so-and-so because they haven't been active in x years", then someone else says "but someone might use them", rinse and repeat with the occasional "LEAVE BILL ALONE" post thrown into the mix every now and then.

[Colly]

Terry Funk should still be in the data, as should anybody who's achieved a Hall of Fame level of success who could conceivably come back, even if its unlikely.

But the rest of these names, if they've been inactive for years should be removed. Those guys who mkpunk keeps mentioning as opposed to the dozens/hundreds of guys in the data who haven't wrestled in years and probably won't can be removed, and the 3 that do return can be readded. That makes the most sense to me.

The issue is somebody may have written off say Cory Kastle because he was last heard of I think in 2005.

Don't get me wrong, the game is bloated with some questionable entries. Think of Mini Machine, El Migdeto and that Mr. Scream as well as the Nitro Girls and models who never even were used in angels that are kept in because they are "hot."

This could be my most misogynistic post ever on this board, but I'd be wary of just how hot some of those Nitro Girls still are 15 years after the fact...

[Skummy]

This has already been said by mods, but it is something which bears repeating, particularly after fusionfx's post.

This thread is not about Bill, or about telling Bill how to or not to do his game. It's about the mechanics of the game, and how to relate that to building an optimum scenario/stats update.

Bill is not the only person exclusively able to make stats updates for EWR, though some people in here seem to be under that impression. This isn't about "Bill should do this, Bill should do that", it's about "would this be more appropriate?".

For the argument "if you want it done like this, do it yourself", that's almost exactly what this thread is for. It's about reaching conclusions as to how to "do it yourself".

Now I have a question, we are discussing the theories and such in here, but has anyone made suggestions in the suggestion thread yet about these theories? I'm just asking because if we don't start doing it, aren't we just running around in circles?

The entire point of this thread was so as not to clutter the suggestions threads with this stuff. Again, the suggestions thread relates entirely to Bill's update, whereas this thread is about updates in general. It isn't specific to Bill, in any way.

With the relationships listed, there's no way Al Snow should have a loyalty relationship to all the Tough Enough guys. Those relationships are in there because they were reasonably current at the time, and because the game gives trainer/student as an example of a loyalty relationship. How "loyalty" works in the game, though, would mean that Al Snow would be likely to threaten to quit if you fired Nidia or John Morrison, or vice-versa, and that clearly wouldn't be the case.

The Edge/Christian/Rhino/Joe E. Legend relationships can possibly stay in, as they're old friendships dating back from when they started out wrestling. I don't know well enough about Joe to know if that's still the case, though.

No idea about Lita/York & Matthews.

Snuka and Rock should definitely not have a loyalty relationship. Again, do you think Rock would walk out of the WWE if they released Snuka? A friendship would do for that. Snuka's considered a member of the extended family tree for the Anoais, though he's not actually a blood relative...

I doubt Justin Credible is still particularly close to any of the Kliq, except maybe Waltman. Definitely not Michaels or Triple H.

Matt Hyson/Paul Heyman shouldn't have a loyalty relationship. Again, this seems to be a relationship left over from the game very early on - it's a problem I brought up earlier, there are hundreds of relationships that have been built up in the game over years and years, with very few ever removed, regardless of how relevant they still are. Practically everyone who used to work for ECW was given either a loyalty or dislike relationship with Heyman, depending on whether they'd spoken out about him in shoot interviews or whatever. Almost all of those relationships should be removed, as they're based on this idea of Heyman as the inspirational leader of ECW, a role he's not been in for over a decade. I doubt someone like Matt Hyson being hired or fired would have any impact on the morale of Paul Heyman in real life.

I'm not even sure about the Piper/Hogan thing. They're two old workers, so it's difficult to believe anything that comes out of either of their mouths, really.

All of the friendships between Power Plant guys can probably be removed. I assume it was just assumed that they'd be friends because they trained together.

Shawn Michaels having a friendship relationship with Brian Kendrick should probably be removed - by all accounts Shawn was never particularly close to, or involved with, any of his students, and, again, I very much doubt that Michaels would lose sleep over Kendrick being fired.

Terry Funk should still be in the data, as should anybody who's achieved a Hall of Fame level of success who could conceivably come back, even if its unlikely.

Funk's wrestled twice in the past month or two.

[Colly]

Funk should never be removed, even if this thread continues until 2071.

[Hornswoggle4PM]

...Someone tell me Terry Funk is not in the data.

Terry Funk is not in the data. I'M LYING TO MAKE HIM FEEL BETTER!

Relationship Name 1 Name 2

Loyalty Al Snow Maven

Loyalty Al Snow Nidia

Loyalty Al Snow John Morrison

Loyalty Al Snow John Morrison

Friendship Edge Joe E. Legend

Friendship Christian Joe E. Legend

Friendship Rhino Joe E. Legend

Friendship Amy Dumas Joey Mercury

Friendship Amy Dumas Christian York

Loyalty Jimmy Snuka The Rock

Friendship Triple H Justin Credible

Friendship Shawn Michaels Justin Credible

Loyalty Matt Hyson Paul Heyman

Dislike Roddy Piper Hulk Hogan

Friendship Brock Lesnar Shelton Benjamin

Friendship Shawn Stasiak Chuck Palumbo

Friendship Shawn Stasiak Sean O'Haire

Friendship Shawn Stasiak Mike Sanders

Friendship Shawn Stasiak Marco Corleone

Friendship Chuck Palumbo Sean O'Haire

Friendship Chuck Palumbo Mike Sanders

Friendship Chuck Palumbo Marco Corleone

Friendship Sean O'Haire Mike Sanders

Friendship Sean O'Haire Marco Corleone

Friendship Mike Sanders Marco Corleone

Friendship Shawn Michaels Brian Kendrick

I was using the September data and went through the first 200 relationships. I didn't mention most of The Samoans relationships because I didn't know where to start. However I posted on here just to get an opinion on if any of these should stay. At one point I will start posting them in the actual suggestion thread, but I kind of wanted a general guideline from some people before I posted all of them in there. With the exception of Hogan-Piper (which I don't know the story on), I figured most of these could be deleted on the basis most of these are 10 years or so old and I don't think they would still be the case today. Just because people talk to each other doesn't make them real good friends *i.e. they wouldn't lose sleep if they weren't working in the same fed or lose morale.

The only exception besides Hogan-Piper, could be Hyson and Heyman could be amended to friendship, but I still don't think it needs to be included.

So I guess my other reason for posting is how close of a friendship do people need to have in real life to be considered a friendship in the game? Name dropping in interviews to me seem to be a stretch, but seeing pictures popping up all the time of friends I can understand. Also, should loyalty still be between trainers and students? I say no, just because trainers help a lot of people so they could be linked to TONS of people in game where in real life they may not have contact with them once the students graduate.

I'm going to defer to other people's knowledge on this, but as mentioned the Tough Enough/Al Snow relationships should almost all be removed unless there's evidence of them being closely linked after the conclusion of their respective series'. Elsewhere, Snuka and The Rock are probably related by marriage (I think both are part of the large Samoan family), I'd keep that loyalty in and Joe E Legend with Rhino, Christian and Edge would seem to stem from early in their careers, it's likely they'd still have some form of friendship from those days.

How about if we put the whole "playability" vs "completism" thing to the vote? I feel like we're going in circles here. Someone says "delete so-and-so because they haven't been active in x years", then someone else says "but someone might use them", rinse and repeat with the occasional "LEAVE BILL ALONE" post thrown into the mix every now and then.

Um... not sure what you've been reading, just about everyone has been agreeing that some workers, relationships and tag teams should be deleted, and playability is definitely more important. We're not going in circles and for the most part, getting quite close to making decisions on what could be done with minimal negative impacts.

This could be my most misogynistic post ever on this board, but I'd be wary of just how hot some of those Nitro Girls still are 15 years after the fact...

I hate to admit it, but I was thinking that too. Anyway, a moot point if they get deleted.

[fusionFX!]

Terry Funk should still be in the data, as should anybody who's achieved a Hall of Fame level of success who could conceivably come back, even if its unlikely.

But the rest of these names, if they've been inactive for years should be removed. Those guys who mkpunk keeps mentioning as opposed to the dozens/hundreds of guys in the data who haven't wrestled in years and probably won't can be removed, and the 3 that do return can be readded. That makes the most sense to me.

The issue is somebody may have written off say Cory Kastle because he was last heard of I think in 2005.

Don't get me wrong, the game is bloated with some questionable entries. Think of Mini Machine, El Migdeto and that Mr. Scream as well as the Nitro Girls and models who never even were used in angels that are kept in because they are "hot."

Cory Kastle has started wrestling again, or so his Facebook says.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LK1B-fiTPU4

Edited November 17, 2013 by fusionFX!

[Pizza]

Again, deleting hundreds of workers and having to readd maybe 2 of them a year isn't a bad thing. Maybe next month Mike Sanders gets bored and decides he wants to wrestle, that doesn't mean he should be in the data this month. Cory Kastle is wrestling again, that doesn't mean he should have been in a 2012 data set. It isn't an arduous task to readd a worker, and the loading time improvements made by clearing a swath a workers would more than make up for the minute it would have taken to put Kastle back in.

[Lineker]

Can we keep the Piper/Chavo blood relationship in though? That's very important.

[mkpunk]

...Someone tell me Terry Funk is not in the data.

Terry Funk is not in the data. I'M LYING TO MAKE HIM FEEL BETTER!

Relationship Name 1 Name 2

Loyalty Al Snow Maven

Loyalty Al Snow Nidia

Loyalty Al Snow John Morrison

Loyalty Al Snow John Morrison

Friendship Edge Joe E. Legend

Friendship Christian Joe E. Legend

Friendship Rhino Joe E. Legend

Friendship Amy Dumas Joey Mercury

Friendship Amy Dumas Christian York

Loyalty Jimmy Snuka The Rock

Friendship Triple H Justin Credible

Friendship Shawn Michaels Justin Credible

Loyalty Matt Hyson Paul Heyman

Dislike Roddy Piper Hulk Hogan

Friendship Brock Lesnar Shelton Benjamin

Friendship Shawn Stasiak Chuck Palumbo

Friendship Shawn Stasiak Sean O'Haire

Friendship Shawn Stasiak Mike Sanders

Friendship Shawn Stasiak Marco Corleone

Friendship Chuck Palumbo Sean O'Haire

Friendship Chuck Palumbo Mike Sanders

Friendship Chuck Palumbo Marco Corleone

Friendship Sean O'Haire Mike Sanders

Friendship Sean O'Haire Marco Corleone

Friendship Mike Sanders Marco Corleone

Friendship Shawn Michaels Brian Kendrick

I was using the September data and went through the first 200 relationships. I didn't mention most of The Samoans relationships because I didn't know where to start. However I posted on here just to get an opinion on if any of these should stay. At one point I will start posting them in the actual suggestion thread, but I kind of wanted a general guideline from some people before I posted all of them in there. With the exception of Hogan-Piper (which I don't know the story on), I figured most of these could be deleted on the basis most of these are 10 years or so old and I don't think they would still be the case today. Just because people talk to each other doesn't make them real good friends *i.e. they wouldn't lose sleep if they weren't working in the same fed or lose morale.

The only exception besides Hogan-Piper, could be Hyson and Heyman could be amended to friendship, but I still don't think it needs to be included.

So I guess my other reason for posting is how close of a friendship do people need to have in real life to be considered a friendship in the game? Name dropping in interviews to me seem to be a stretch, but seeing pictures popping up all the time of friends I can understand. Also, should loyalty still be between trainers and students? I say no, just because trainers help a lot of people so they could be linked to TONS of people in game where in real life they may not have contact with them once the students graduate.

1) I'm going to defer to other people's knowledge on this, but as mentioned the Tough Enough/Al Snow relationships should almost all be removed unless there's evidence of them being closely linked after the conclusion of their respective series'. Elsewhere, Snuka and The Rock are probably related by marriage (I think both are part of the large Samoan family), I'd keep that loyalty in and Joe E Legend with Rhino, Christian and Edge would seem to stem from early in their careers, it's likely they'd still have some form of friendship from those days.

How about if we put the whole "playability" vs "completism" thing to the vote? I feel like we're going in circles here. Someone says "delete so-and-so because they haven't been active in x years", then someone else says "but someone might use them", rinse and repeat with the occasional "LEAVE BILL ALONE" post thrown into the mix every now and then.

2) Um... not sure what you've been reading, just about everyone has been agreeing that some workers, relationships and tag teams should be deleted, and playability is definitely more important. We're not going in circles and for the most part, getting quite close to making decisions on what could be done with minimal negative impacts.

1) I would also keep the Edge & Christian with Sinn Bowdi relationship and even the Roberts-Bowdi relationship. If anyone read the Edge book you know of a character in their high school group that was in their group named "fatty." Sinn is that fatty.

The Samoan family tree is muddy but let's put it this way, the Snukas, the Fifitas (Haku, his son Tama Tonga and adopted son Camacho), The Barbarian and his niece Lei'D Tapa are NOT in the Anoai family. However, pretty tight with the Anoai's so rather than being blood relationships make them loyalties because say if you ran a standard Joe-Blow indy in real life and fired one (without cause) you would likely have them all leave on you. A promotion with actual contracts like say DGUSA, RoH, TNA or WWE, probably not.

2) That's issue. Some people want the data macheted. I would just rather see control on the tag teams and most of the Joe Blome went to a John Smith training seminar so he should have training ticked (let's put it this way besides Punk (who has a legit relationship with say William Regal) the CHIKARA trainees and say Mexico and Japanese trainers, many be "greatful" for the training but not nessecarily loyal.)

Friendships as well are kinda of weak especially the Art of Wrestling ones where Colt has like 100 friends. Not doubting he can't have that many but say the WWE guys he had (Dolph, Gallows, Bryan, Trent, Hawkins, Ryder, ect.) he had relationships with in the past whether it was developmental or what not but say Mike Roselli, he may not. It will be tough wading through all of them.

Edit:

Terry Funk should still be in the data, as should anybody who's achieved a Hall of Fame level of success who could conceivably come back, even if its unlikely.

But the rest of these names, if they've been inactive for years should be removed. Those guys who mkpunk keeps mentioning as opposed to the dozens/hundreds of guys in the data who haven't wrestled in years and probably won't can be removed, and the 3 that do return can be readded. That makes the most sense to me.

The issue is somebody may have written off say Cory Kastle because he was last heard of I think in 2005.

Don't get me wrong, the game is bloated with some questionable entries. Think of Mini Machine, El Migdeto and that Mr. Scream as well as the Nitro Girls and models who never even were used in angels that are kept in because they are "hot."

Cory Kastle has started wrestling again, or so his Facebook says.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LK1B-fiTPU4

That was why I mentioned him earlier. Why, because he last wrestled in the mid '00s and then had brain cancer before fighting it and being able to return to the ring. Compare this to say Matt Cappotelli who is likely done for the same reason and has been out for the same amount of time.

Edited November 17, 2013 by mkpunk

[apsham]

With talks of relationships coming up - I urge everyone to think about again, not what the idea of "Loyalty" means to you but more along the lines of what Skummy has stated - what Loyalty actually does in the game.

In my humble opinion I think that the concept of Loyalty in the EWR data should be very, very rarely used - at least compared to how it is used in this day and age. Have you ever tried to cut down a WWE game roster without doing the "morale/offer release" trick? It's a HUGE pain in the ass when you have SO many friendships/loyalties in the data. And you have to resort to an exploit that hurts your chances of picking those people up later, if you so desire. Think about it again, as Skummy has posted. If the WWE picked up Snuka for a while for lord knows what reason and then decided to let him go after they used him - why would The Rock threaten to leave? Just because they're related by marriage? That's absolutely ridiculous.

It's also insane when people suggest friendships or loyalties based off one or two trivial actions - heck, I remember back when I paid a lot of attention to the stat update threads - people were having relationships created because they were friends with another wrestler on MySpace or some crap like that. How much stuff like that is bloating the data at this point in time? Just because two people have a friendly relationship with each other - it has absolutely no bearing on whether or not they'd kick up a fuss or even feel bad enough to have their "morale" go down after they've been released.

This is about making the data conform to the systems that the game works by. Not by every single person's personal definition of what everything is.

[apsham]

...Someone tell me Terry Funk is not in the data.

Terry Funk is not in the data. I'M LYING TO MAKE HIM FEEL BETTER!

Relationship Name 1 Name 2

Loyalty Al Snow Maven

Loyalty Al Snow Nidia

Loyalty Al Snow John Morrison

Loyalty Al Snow John Morrison

Friendship Edge Joe E. Legend

Friendship Christian Joe E. Legend

Friendship Rhino Joe E. Legend

Friendship Amy Dumas Joey Mercury

Friendship Amy Dumas Christian York

Loyalty Jimmy Snuka The Rock

Friendship Triple H Justin Credible

Friendship Shawn Michaels Justin Credible

Loyalty Matt Hyson Paul Heyman

Dislike Roddy Piper Hulk Hogan

Friendship Brock Lesnar Shelton Benjamin

Friendship Shawn Stasiak Chuck Palumbo

Friendship Shawn Stasiak Sean O'Haire

Friendship Shawn Stasiak Mike Sanders

Friendship Shawn Stasiak Marco Corleone

Friendship Chuck Palumbo Sean O'Haire

Friendship Chuck Palumbo Mike Sanders

Friendship Chuck Palumbo Marco Corleone

Friendship Sean O'Haire Mike Sanders

Friendship Sean O'Haire Marco Corleone

Friendship Mike Sanders Marco Corleone

Friendship Shawn Michaels Brian Kendrick

I was using the September data and went through the first 200 relationships. I didn't mention most of The Samoans relationships because I didn't know where to start. However I posted on here just to get an opinion on if any of these should stay. At one point I will start posting them in the actual suggestion thread, but I kind of wanted a general guideline from some people before I posted all of them in there. With the exception of Hogan-Piper (which I don't know the story on), I figured most of these could be deleted on the basis most of these are 10 years or so old and I don't think they would still be the case today. Just because people talk to each other doesn't make them real good friends *i.e. they wouldn't lose sleep if they weren't working in the same fed or lose morale.

The only exception besides Hogan-Piper, could be Hyson and Heyman could be amended to friendship, but I still don't think it needs to be included.

So I guess my other reason for posting is how close of a friendship do people need to have in real life to be considered a friendship in the game? Name dropping in interviews to me seem to be a stretch, but seeing pictures popping up all the time of friends I can understand. Also, should loyalty still be between trainers and students? I say no, just because trainers help a lot of people so they could be linked to TONS of people in game where in real life they may not have contact with them once the students graduate.

1) I'm going to defer to other people's knowledge on this, but as mentioned the Tough Enough/Al Snow relationships should almost all be removed unless there's evidence of them being closely linked after the conclusion of their respective series'. Elsewhere, Snuka and The Rock are probably related by marriage (I think both are part of the large Samoan family), I'd keep that loyalty in and Joe E Legend with Rhino, Christian and Edge would seem to stem from early in their careers, it's likely they'd still have some form of friendship from those days.

How about if we put the whole "playability" vs "completism" thing to the vote? I feel like we're going in circles here. Someone says "delete so-and-so because they haven't been active in x years", then someone else says "but someone might use them", rinse and repeat with the occasional "LEAVE BILL ALONE" post thrown into the mix every now and then.

2) Um... not sure what you've been reading, just about everyone has been agreeing that some workers, relationships and tag teams should be deleted, and playability is definitely more important. We're not going in circles and for the most part, getting quite close to making decisions on what could be done with minimal negative impacts.

1) I would also keep the Edge & Christian with Sinn Bowdi relationship and even the Roberts-Bowdi relationship. If anyone read the Edge book you know of a character in their high school group that was in their group named "fatty." Sinn is that fatty.

The Samoan family tree is muddy but let's put it this way, the Snukas, the Fifitas (Haku, his son Tama Tonga and adopted son Camacho), The Barbarian and his niece Lei'D Tapa are NOT in the Anoai family. However, pretty tight with the Anoai's so rather than being blood relationships make them loyalties because say if you ran a standard Joe-Blow indy in real life and fired one (without cause) you would likely have them all leave on you. A promotion with actual contracts like say DGUSA, RoH, TNA or WWE, probably not.

2) That's issue. Some people want the data macheted. I would just rather see control on the tag teams and most of the Joe Blome went to a John Smith training seminar so he should have training ticked (let's put it this way besides Punk (who has a legit relationship with say William Regal) the CHIKARA trainees and say Mexico and Japanese trainers, many be "greatful" for the training but not nessecarily loyal.)

Friendships as well are kinda of weak especially the Art of Wrestling ones where Colt has like 100 friends. Not doubting he can't have that many but say the WWE guys he had (Dolph, Gallows, Bryan, Trent, Hawkins, Ryder, ect.) he had relationships with in the past whether it was developmental or what not but say Mike Roselli, he may not. It will be tough wading through all of them.

Edit:

Terry Funk should still be in the data, as should anybody who's achieved a Hall of Fame level of success who could conceivably come back, even if its unlikely.

But the rest of these names, if they've been inactive for years should be removed. Those guys who mkpunk keeps mentioning as opposed to the dozens/hundreds of guys in the data who haven't wrestled in years and probably won't can be removed, and the 3 that do return can be readded. That makes the most sense to me.

The issue is somebody may have written off say Cory Kastle because he was last heard of I think in 2005.

Don't get me wrong, the game is bloated with some questionable entries. Think of Mini Machine, El Migdeto and that Mr. Scream as well as the Nitro Girls and models who never even were used in angels that are kept in because they are "hot."

Cory Kastle has started wrestling again, or so his Facebook says.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LK1B-fiTPU4

That was why I mentioned him earlier. Why, because he last wrestled in the mid '00s and then had brain cancer before fighting it and being able to return to the ring. Compare this to say Matt Cappotelli who is likely done for the same reason and has been out for the same amount of time.

That's an eight year bloat. Less than five minutes puts him back in the game. Even IF a guy who has been out for EIGHT years comes back, his stats are going to need reworking anyways. So why not remove him, maybe save his stats somewhere and add him back in - IF that ever needs to happen?

[fusionFX!]

What's the point of taking him out just to change his stats? Simple fix would be to just change his stats. Here's a video of one of his most recent matches for anybody wanting to make changes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LK1B-fiTPU4

Edited November 19, 2013 by fusionFX!

[Gazz]

Because my custom built computer can set up a 30 odd league, 250,000 player database on Football Manager 14 quicker than it can start a new game on EWR. Fuck knows what it must be like for anyone with a less powerful system, it makes the game unplayable.

[Lineker]

What's the point of taking him out just to change his stats? Simple fix would be to just change his stats. Here's a video of one of his most recent matches for anybody wanting to make changes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LK1B-fiTPU4

It's almost as if you've not read anything that's been discussed.

[Rich]

What's the point of taking him out just to change his stats?

To reduce the bloated data set.

Assume that is the answer to most of your queries.

[Colly]

With talks of relationships coming up - I urge everyone to think about again, not what the idea of "Loyalty" means to you but more along the lines of what Skummy has stated - what Loyalty actually does in the game.

In my humble opinion I think that the concept of Loyalty in the EWR data should be very, very rarely used - at least compared to how it is used in this day and age. Have you ever tried to cut down a WWE game roster without doing the "morale/offer release" trick? It's a HUGE pain in the ass when you have SO many friendships/loyalties in the data. And you have to resort to an exploit that hurts your chances of picking those people up later, if you so desire. Think about it again, as Skummy has posted. If the WWE picked up Snuka for a while for lord knows what reason and then decided to let him go after they used him - why would The Rock threaten to leave? Just because they're related by marriage? That's absolutely ridiculous.

It's also insane when people suggest friendships or loyalties based off one or two trivial actions - heck, I remember back when I paid a lot of attention to the stat update threads - people were having relationships created because they were friends with another wrestler on MySpace or some crap like that. How much stuff like that is bloating the data at this point in time? Just because two people have a friendly relationship with each other - it has absolutely no bearing on whether or not they'd kick up a fuss or even feel bad enough to have their "morale" go down after they've been released.

This is about making the data conform to the systems that the game works by. Not by every single person's personal definition of what everything is.

Is Loyalty a 'stronger' link than Friendship? I can't remember the exact implications of either, but am I right in saying sacking a friend is a lower morale drop than a loyalty, which is lower than blood relative? Just knock a load down a tier based on Skummys logic.

[fusionFX!]

What's the point of taking him out just to change his stats? Simple fix would be to just change his stats. Here's a video of one of his most recent matches for anybody wanting to make changes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LK1B-fiTPU4

It's almost as if you've not read anything that's been discussed.

No I've read everything, I just don't see the point in taking him out when he pretty much just came back to wrestling. Simply take a look at the video I posted since it's one from September and change his stats.

[Colly]

You've completely missed the point. No one is saying remove him now that he's wrestling again, they're saying remove him 8 years ago while he wasn't.