EWR Stats and Scenarios in Theory and Practice

[Rich]

Colly, here's a thought, if your post isn't going to add anything to this thread, just don't click on that button marked "post" okay?

Colly

Remember this? I sure do!

It still stands.

[TheWho87]

Cena and Otunga? Who adds these?

They were tag team champions for 24 hours from Bragging Rights 2010 the next Raw.

[Colly]

Colly, here's a thought, if your post isn't going to add anything to this thread, just don't click on that button marked "post" okay?

Colly

Remember this? I sure do!

It still stands.

It was a valid question! Someone answered it!

[Rich]

Just because someone answers it, doesn't mean its valid.

Is it also worthwhile looking at the age of some workers?

I think if you have a lot of low level overness people who are inactive or almost inactive, would they not be retiring very soon after the start of a game, and if so should these workers also not be considered for removal?

[Colly]

I think the nature of the games original database means that most of the low overness lot will be quite far off retirement age doesn't it? Famous old boys like Hogan and Flair, but not loads of 50 something indie types?

[Rich]

I guess that's right about the original data, but we're over a decade down the line now, and as a result we could have some low level oldies in there now.

[Colly]

Even bearing that in mind though that would have to mean 40 somethings then, and barring haggard looking Beverly Brothers I can't remember many Scott Snot overness types nearing retirement which I assume is the type you're suggesting removing. Don't touch the Bushwhackers!

[Mr.Perfekt]

If anybody wants to help clean out the inactive tag teams from TNA and ROH, it would be much appreciated as my knowledge of them both is pretty limited.

1. Simply start the game as TNA or ROH

2. Go to tag teams

3. uncheck whole teams only & active teams only.

4. ???

5. Profit

Edited November 3, 2013 by Mr.Perfekt

[Reflecto Is My Favorite Poster]

If anybody wants to help clean out the inactive tag teams from TNA and ROH, it would be much appreciated as my knowledge of them both is pretty limited.

1. Simply start the game as TNA or ROH

2. Go to tag teams

3. uncheck whole teams only & active teams only.

4. ???

5. Profit

The TNA part of it, separated by the five guidelines for tag teams said in the thread:

A) Haven't teamed together since 2008 (Al Snow and Kane)

2 Insane

Air Raid

Amazing Phenomenon

Brothers in Paint

Chavo and Gregory Helms

Daniels and Modest

Hotstuff and Fast Eddie

Kash and Abyss

Kaz and Super Eric

Los Conquistadors

Misfits in Action

Molly and Gail

NanaCorp

PJB

PJB II

The New Dream Team

The Prophecy 1-2

B) Have very little experience and/or were randomly thrown together (Mysterio and HBK):

Abyss and AJ Styles

AJ Styles and D-Lo Brown

Anderson and Hardy

Angle and AJ Styles

Angle and Nash

Best Team Ever

Chavo and Bulldog

Cottonwood and Brisco

Daniels and Anthony

Daniels and Reign

Gun Money

Gunner and Hernandez

Haas and Knox

Hardcore Pigeons

Main Event Mafia 2

Perez and Abyss

RDX

Sting and Muta

Storm and Daniels

Styles and London

Suicide and Amazing Red

Treachery

C) Have very little chance of ever teaming again (Bret Hart and Goldberg)

Abyss and Alex Shelley

Abyss and S.J. Keenan

Angle and Reigns

Aries and Danielson

Big Unit

Brisco and Steamboat

Brisco and Woods

Dixon-Sexon Connection

Dustin Rhodes and Sting

Esquire

Generation Next 3-4

Hogan and Edge

Kelly Kelly and Tiffany

London Brawling

nWo Hollywood 2

Shelley and Aries

Spike and Tazz

Sting and Steiner

Sting and The Giant

Styles and Lynn

Sullivan and Taz

Super Curry MAX, III, V, VII

Team Chismo

The JOB Squad II/V

The Band III

The Tazmaniacs

D) Superstar-Diva teams (AJ and Punk)

Angle and Chyna

Banks and Roode

Charles Evans and ODB

Jessie Godderz and Tara

Robert Roode Inc.

Storm and Moore

Williams and Kim

E) Feature someone who's gimmick has changed dramatically enough to say it'll likely never be the same as their team :

Bomberry and Perkins

Champagne and Roode

Curry Man and Dragon

Eckos and Berk

Famous for Fearless

Jarrett's Security

Kerwin and Nemeth

Madison Girlz

Nemeth and Big Rob

New Rockers

Rob Eckos and Biggs

Roode and Hughes

Sabin and Martini

Sabin and Storm

Samoa Joe and Sakoda

Team Elite

Tense Alliance

The Moxie Family

The Sensationals

The Urban Outlawz

The Valedictorians

Truitt and Shatter

Un-touchables I/III

And ROH's half:

A) Haven't teamed together since 2008 (Al Snow and Kane)

Cage and Rhino

Joe E. Legend and Rhino

Latin American Exchange I-II

Rhyno and Tajiri

The Network

The New Impact Players

B) Have very little experience and/or were randomly thrown together (Mysterio and HBK):

Age of the Fall II

Age of the Fall III

Angel Blue and Veda Scott

Appetite for Destruction

Chavis and Homicide

Christian and Matt Hardy

Cicero and Corino

Craft and Yim

D-Generation Mex I-II

Homicide and Okada

C) Have very little chance of ever teaming again (Bret Hart and Goldberg)

BJ Whitmer and Titus

Callihan and Strong

Collyer and McGuinness

Danielson and Strong

Davina Rose and Mia Yim

Delirious and Primeau

Elgin and Callihan

Gabriel and Hardy

Hardy and Harris

Jiglirious

Khali and Matt Hardy

Matt Hardy and Abs

Matt Hardy and MVP

Orlov and Rusev

PAC and Roderick Strong

Pearce and Whitmer

Rhino and PCO

Scream Queens

Stevens and Strong

Whitmer and Jacobs

Whitmer and Maff

D) Superstar-Diva teams (AJ and Punk)

Koslov and Von Eerie

KrotchChif

Perevans

E) Feature someone who's gimmick has changed dramatically enough to say it'll likely never be the same as their team :

Ambrose and McGuinness

Cabana and McGuinness

Cole and Veritas

Coleman and Silvia

Corino and Evans

Corino and Windsor

Dark Horses

Double Threat

Fun Lovin' Criminals II

Homicide and Bubba

Int. Properties II

Jacobs and Atlas

Jacobs and Gowen

Jacobs and Shelley

Jay and Insane Dragon

Manhattan Project

Maria and Ziggler

Marseglia and Neidhart

Metro Men

Mini Park and Azteko

Montoya and Homicide

Natural Born Sinners

Old School Blondes

Pretty Unreal

Rapada and Corino

Roughnecks II-III

Special K III-IV

Starr and Jacobs

Steen and Franky

Team IWS

Tenacious Z and Martini

The Lethal Weapon

The Michigan Invasion

The Revolutionaries

The Strong Brothers

Wild Cards

Edited November 3, 2013 by Reflecto Is My Favorite Poster

[Sousa]

Here's something else to consider about tag teams that might prevent "ADD A TAG TEAM OF JERN CENER AN RAY MYSTERY, THEY TEAMED ON THE RAW" from continuing to be normal.

Let's say that, in your given EWR game, you decide to have a tag team match on your show. For simplicity's sake, let's assume you're doing a current WWE game, and you're running top feuds between Daniel Bryan & Randy Orton and another between Big Show & Alberto Del Rio. You decide to end a TV episode of Raw with a tag team match that encompasses both feuds, with Bryan and Show against Orton and Del Rio (so fairly typical Raw booking).

Unless I'm mistaken, in EWR, neither team will gain tag team experience unless they are actually made into a team. Most players, of course, would not make these into teams; after all, the match was made to put together a typical face/heel tag team main event for Raw, and there's obviously no intent to have Bryan and Show form a permanent tag team.

Let's reverse the scenario and imagine this match happened on Raw, and let's even say a rematch happened on Smackdown (and, hell, let's even say they ran it on some house shows). The intent is still obviously to use a tag team match to build two singles feuds, not to form a permanent tag team. But in all likelihood, someone would drop in a stats thread and say we should make Bryan and Show a tag team with "2-3 experience."

My question is this: what's the value of this?

Because we now have a whole fuck-ton of first-run wrestling television on all week long (Raw, Smackdown, Superstars, Main Event, and god I'm sure there's more)--along with house shows--it stands to reason that a lot of small tag teams are going to be put together for no reason but to fill a card. By what criteria do these get added?

The result of making a team in EWR and putting them together in a tag team match is usually that they gain a point or two of team experience; therefore, you can have the same result if you put Show and Bryan together in a tag team, then have them fight in a tag team twice.

Is it really worth adding to an already hilariously bloated list of tag teams to add new teams all the time?

[Colly]

What does tag team experience actually do, raise the match quality if its higher? Genuinely don't have a clue, but I can't remember ever massively suffering results wise after making those makeshift tag matches with no experience on either side.

[Rich]

Creates relationships at around 20/25 experience, and does affect match quality.

[Colly]

So as Sousa says pointless to register the two match wonders as teams then?

[Reflecto Is My Favorite Poster]

This leads to a better question as well for cutting down tag teams:

What should be the line to constitute a new tag team being added to the game?

Random "MAKE BRYAN DANIELSON [NOT! Daniel Bryan!] AND THE GIANT [NOT! The Big Show!] A TAG TEAM, THEY TEAMED ON THE RAW" teams going in for no good reason is bloating up the tag team ranks- but on the flipside, what's a good baseline to say "okay, THIS TEAM" deserves to be in the game?

We know being a tag team on an episode of Raw shouldn't immediately make two people a team. But the same problem of booking realistically to the WWE leads to an equal problem finding the line. The most natural line is things like "Well, if the two teams were the tag team champions at one point, they should be in"- since WWE will regularly throw together heavyweights for a tag title win or use the "These two guys hate each other/are fighting at the next pay-per-view...BUT THEY'RE ALSO THE TAG CHAMPS TOGETHER! How can they co-exist?" angle, then you have problems like "MAKE THE PROTOTYPE [NOT! John Cena!] AND MIKE FROM THE REAL WORLD [NOT! The Miz!] A TAG TEAM, THEY WON THE TAG TITLES IN WHAT'S BEEN ACCEPTED AS A BOTCHED PINFALL KICKOUT AND HAD THE MATCH REWORKED TO LOSE A FEW MINUTES LATER!"

With these in mind, to help cut the tag teams down, we should also decide what the line is for us to consider a tag team a TAG TEAM, then go from there. I know there's a few teams mentioned for the WWE list- and even teams I put on the list for TNA and ROH- that I would personally recognize as a valid tag team, but followed one of the rules said- so it's necessary to define it and then start cutting the list down.

[Mick]

They come out together, win a tag team title....

There are exceptions in some cases, like Sting and Lex Luger.

[Sousa]

Sting and Luger teamed together a lot, though. It wasn't a "let's tag Cena and Mysterio together for no raisin" situation at all.

I think a better issue is the longevity of the team than anything, though. Right now, for example, Cody Rhodes and Goldust are clearly a tag team and clearly need to be entered as a team into the data if they're not--they've paired together for about a month now and are treated as a unit on programming. That makes much more sense than Cena and Miz being entered as a team because they teamed together for one night, won the tag titles on a goof, and then lost them immediately because REMATCH CLAUSE~!

[Mancuerda]

This leads to a better question as well for cutting down tag teams:

What should be the line to constitute a new tag team being added to the game?

Random "MAKE BRYAN DANIELSON [NOT! Daniel Bryan!] AND THE GIANT [NOT! The Big Show!] A TAG TEAM, THEY TEAMED ON THE RAW" teams going in for no good reason is bloating up the tag team ranks- but on the flipside, what's a good baseline to say "okay, THIS TEAM" deserves to be in the game?

We know being a tag team on an episode of Raw shouldn't immediately make two people a team. But the same problem of booking realistically to the WWE leads to an equal problem finding the line. The most natural line is things like "Well, if the two teams were the tag team champions at one point, they should be in"- since WWE will regularly throw together heavyweights for a tag title win or use the "These two guys hate each other/are fighting at the next pay-per-view...BUT THEY'RE ALSO THE TAG CHAMPS TOGETHER! How can they co-exist?" angle, then you have problems like "MAKE THE PROTOTYPE [NOT! John Cena!] AND MIKE FROM THE REAL WORLD [NOT! The Miz!] A TAG TEAM, THEY WON THE TAG TITLES IN WHAT'S BEEN ACCEPTED AS A BOTCHED PINFALL KICKOUT AND HAD THE MATCH REWORKED TO LOSE A FEW MINUTES LATER!"

With these in mind, to help cut the tag teams down, we should also decide what the line is for us to consider a tag team a TAG TEAM, then go from there. I know there's a few teams mentioned for the WWE list- and even teams I put on the list for TNA and ROH- that I would personally recognize as a valid tag team, but followed one of the rules said- so it's necessary to define it and then start cutting the list down.

I think we're above reductio ad absurdum here. Not everyone suggesting these teams are elitist smart marks who only refer to wrestlers by their indy names and type in all caps. I think you can give a little more respect than that and not build these strawman arguments.

Anyway, I don't see a problem with putting a team in if they win the tag team titles, even if it's a short reign or to further a feud. They still won the tag team titles and will be recognized as a team, unlike say, a random pairing used JUST to further a feud without any titles attached or official recognition as a team.

As for your second example, look at a team such as HBK and Austin or Austin and Dude Love. These teams were put in the game in most older scenarios, and I can't see a reason why they shouldn't be. They had tag team title reigns, and even if it was part of a larger storyline, they are at least recognized as a team in history because of holding the tag gold.

[mkpunk]

This leads to a better question as well for cutting down tag teams:

What should be the line to constitute a new tag team being added to the game?

Random "MAKE BRYAN DANIELSON [NOT! Daniel Bryan!] AND THE GIANT [NOT! The Big Show!] A TAG TEAM, THEY TEAMED ON THE RAW" teams going in for no good reason is bloating up the tag team ranks- but on the flipside, what's a good baseline to say "okay, THIS TEAM" deserves to be in the game?

We know being a tag team on an episode of Raw shouldn't immediately make two people a team. But the same problem of booking realistically to the WWE leads to an equal problem finding the line. The most natural line is things like "Well, if the two teams were the tag team champions at one point, they should be in"- since WWE will regularly throw together heavyweights for a tag title win or use the "These two guys hate each other/are fighting at the next pay-per-view...BUT THEY'RE ALSO THE TAG CHAMPS TOGETHER! How can they co-exist?" angle, then you have problems like "MAKE THE PROTOTYPE [NOT! John Cena!] AND MIKE FROM THE REAL WORLD [NOT! The Miz!] A TAG TEAM, THEY WON THE TAG TITLES IN WHAT'S BEEN ACCEPTED AS A BOTCHED PINFALL KICKOUT AND HAD THE MATCH REWORKED TO LOSE A FEW MINUTES LATER!"

With these in mind, to help cut the tag teams down, we should also decide what the line is for us to consider a tag team a TAG TEAM, then go from there. I know there's a few teams mentioned for the WWE list- and even teams I put on the list for TNA and ROH- that I would personally recognize as a valid tag team, but followed one of the rules said- so it's necessary to define it and then start cutting the list down.

I think we're above reductio ad absurdum here. Not everyone suggesting these teams are elitist smart marks who only refer to wrestlers by their indy names and type in all caps. I think you can give a little more respect than that and not build these strawman arguments.

Anyway, I don't see a problem with putting a team in if they win the tag team titles, even if it's a short reign or to further a feud. They still won the tag team titles and will be recognized as a team, unlike say, a random pairing used JUST to further a feud without any titles attached or official recognition as a team.

As for your second example, look at a team such as HBK and Austin or Austin and Dude Love. These teams were put in the game in most older scenarios, and I can't see a reason why they shouldn't be. They had tag team title reigns, and even if it was part of a larger storyline, they are at least recognized as a team in history because of holding the tag gold.

To straw-man that, one could say that Kane and Mankind and Austin and Taker should be tag teams even though they were mainly paired together for the storyline to build to SummerSlam 98. I think Kane and Mankind maybe teamed four/five times during that period and never again after that.

Imo, the rule of thumb for tag teams should be at least two months of regular teaming. Yes, this would lead to Rock and Sock being on the block but unlike HBK and Austin, Austin and The Dudester, Kane and Mankind, and Taker and Austin, that team had a last impact. Not too different from say Rated RKO. I mean seriously the Primo and Hawkins and Haas and Knox teams never really team on TV but were in the game (if anything it was on Superstars) and they lasted only a few weeks tops due to firings or regimmicks.

[Azazel]

I think a good way to solve new tag teams is to simply not add any team under 10 experience. If we cannot say they have, or will have 10 tag matches together, there is no point in adding them to the data.

Say for example, Santino and Khali. They have teamed together on recent Raws and even a PPV, but I don't feel they need to be added, if they team semi regularly for the next month, then okay, maybe they should be added.

It would eliminate adding teams that were together once or twice and then never again. I don't think someone not having a team with 1 experience going into the game is going to be a game changer, and they could always just create it themselves if it is that important, but in the long run, it would prevent having a huge number of tag teams with no experience and make it much easier to go through the tag team section in game.

[Reflecto Is My Favorite Poster]

Sting and Luger teamed together a lot, though. It wasn't a "let's tag Cena and Mysterio together for no raisin" situation at all.

I think a better issue is the longevity of the team than anything, though. Right now, for example, Cody Rhodes and Goldust are clearly a tag team and clearly need to be entered as a team into the data if they're not--they've paired together for about a month now and are treated as a unit on programming. That makes much more sense than Cena and Miz being entered as a team because they teamed together for one night, won the tag titles on a goof, and then lost them immediately because REMATCH CLAUSE~!

For this to work and to tie in to most of the thoughts for teams, the better way to do it: Have 'singles' added one month in advance to updates, but tag teams can't be added until the NEXT month's update (so, for example: If I say "Add John Doe, (STATS) to the November update, Doe would be added for the December stat update- but if I say "Add John Doe and Richard Roe, [EXP]", they'd be going for an add in the January stat update instead.) It's a slightly smaller change, but it:

Holds off work for Bill, so he can focus on just immediate moves [titles, new singles guys, etc.], but it also holds off on tag teams. After one month, you don't know who's a TAG TEAM and who's two guys who just happened to tag up together- but after two months, you'll start to have a good idea who the REAL tag teams are on the list. As for experience, it also helps, because if the team's been teaming regularly enough for two months to have around 10 experience, then by that time they'll probably be worthy enough to put in the game.