*SPOILERS* The Dark Knight *SPOILERS*

[JairusCain]

I don't know if someone else said it, but I certainly know that you, Maxx, spazzed the fuck out when I mentioned The Riddle/Mr. Reese thing and you CONTINUE to go on saying people are crazy and/or stupid if they expect the main villain to be a C list actor... Like I said, I don't know if someone else said it, but I never said anything about him being a MAIN villain. Perhaps that is why people are getting so irritated at your rants, because you continuously drive home the fact that the dude will not be a MAIN VILLAIN while you (while complaining about people ignoring what you say) are repeatedly ignoring the fact that no one (to my knowledge anyway) has specified him to be the MAIN villain.

Besides, why is it so damn important to you that you need to get annoyed and bitch over and over again? Yeah, you've stated why it wouldn't work. You've stated why he couldn't be a MAIN villain... so what? People are allowed to discuss the possibilities and what they would LIKE to see or what they may THINK will be seen whether you agree with them or not... so just chill and quit with your abrasive responses to other people's opinions. Trust me, I know how it can get irritating sometimes but just chill and ignore it. It's not that hard...

EDIT: And to keep on topic... I'd much rather see the next villain (if there is even another movie) be a live and well Two Face or a recast Joker, with someone like Penguin or Harley Quinn as a secondary villain. Penguin if Two Face is the main guy... I mean, Dent took out organized crime... but Dent is dead. Two Face can lead a new insurgence with Penguin fronting it. Quinn if they recast Joker.

Edited August 25, 2008 by JairusCain

[Gabriel]

I think that the point isn't that Maxx knows better than anyone else. I think the point is that while yes, it's fun to pick up the little things and speculate as to what they could be, it becomes extremely aggravating and annoying when mass amounts of people turn something as small and as much of a stretch as "Mr. Reese as the Riddler" into such a huge thing.

We get a dozen people here making a huge deal about it and becoming convinced... and then that spreads, and it creates more people who start thinking the same way, and the truth of it is, it could be something to look for in the next movie, but anyone who says more than "that could be cool" or "I wouldn't like that" is really just throwing shit at walls and hoping it starts to look like The Riddler.

It sets off a chain reaction of garbage, and then instead of having discussion about logical next steps or what people thought of the movie, we have three pages of people arguing about some fucking c-list actor that I'll probably never see again in a major motion picture.

Fuck.

Anyways, I know it's still in the theatre, but has there been any word on when they want to release the DVD? Would Christmas be a logical assumption?

[JairusCain]

I would imagine (and hope) that it's out by Christmas... I'd hazard to guess maybe even Thanksgiving. As long as they don't give it the Star Wars treatment and wait a fucking year or so to release it for sale...

A little off topic here, but has anyone seen the new Incredible Hulk movie... and was it any good? ... annnddd any idea when THAT comes out on DVD?

Edited August 25, 2008 by JairusCain

[Gabriel]

I would imagine (and hope) that it's out by Christmas... I'd hazard to guess maybe even Thanksgiving. As long as they don't give it the Star Wars treatment and wait a fucking year or so to release it for sale...

A little off topic here, but has anyone seen the new Incredible Hulk movie... and was it any good? ... annnddd any idea when THAT comes out on DVD?

It wasn't as good as The Dark Knight or Iron Man... but The Incredible Hulk was a solid movie. Leagues better than its' Eric Bana fronted predecessor, and had the perfect amount of carnage and story. It also didn't hurt that Ed Norton is one of the best actors of the 90's/00's.

With Iron Man due out what, late September/October, then I would expect Hulk around that time too.

EDIT: Iron Man September 30... Hulk November 26.

Edited August 25, 2008 by Gabriel

[JairusCain]

Hmm I thought that Hulk came out earlier... didn't Iron Man and Dark Knight come out right around the same time? Oh well... one of the three needs to come out soon so I can have something to watch haha.

I guess in the meantime I can finish reading Watchmen and order Year One, Long Halloween, and Dark Victory...

EDIT: Iron Man comes out on DVD two months before Hulk? What the hell is up with that shit? I swear Hulk came out in theaters before Iron Man did...

Edited August 25, 2008 by JairusCain

[MalaCloudy Black]

Iron Man came out in May. TDK in July.

[JairusCain]

Well when the hell did Hulk come out? Wasn't it around the same time as Iron Man?

[Maxx]

I think that the point isn't that Maxx knows better than anyone else. I think the point is that while yes, it's fun to pick up the little things and speculate as to what they could be, it becomes extremely aggravating and annoying when mass amounts of people turn something as small and as much of a stretch as "Mr. Reese as the Riddler" into such a huge thing.

We get a dozen people here making a huge deal about it and becoming convinced... and then that spreads, and it creates more people who start thinking the same way, and the truth of it is, it could be something to look for in the next movie, but anyone who says more than "that could be cool" or "I wouldn't like that" is really just throwing shit at walls and hoping it starts to look like The Riddler.

It sets off a chain reaction of garbage, and then instead of having discussion about logical next steps or what people thought of the movie, we have three pages of people arguing about some fucking c-list actor that I'll probably never see again in a major motion picture.

Fuck.

Anyways, I know it's still in the theatre, but has there been any word on when they want to release the DVD? Would Christmas be a logical assumption?

Fucking Thank You.

Thats what I've been trying to say. I'm fine with speculating, but when it gets to a point where you just start completely ignoring the holes people are poking in your theory, that goes beyond speculation.

I like reading what you all come up with and discussing what could work and what couldn't work. For a marvelous few weeks we'd moved past the whole "Mr. Reese" reach, but now its up again and people are just blindly chirping away at it. If you bring it up, back it up. No one who's mentioned Coleman Reese turning into The Riddler has responded at all to any of my criticisms. Be it using a C lister in a starring role, the way the character has already been established or the way the character works in the comics.

Yes I know Jarius is saying he won't be in a starring role, it still doesn't explain why a guy who Batman saved from being killed by a psychopath would suddenly want to start harming him. Or why a criminal in gotham city, obsessed with riddles, would start out knowing the answer to the question of "Who is Batman" arguably the greatest riddle of all. Main villian or not, those motivations don't make any sense.

It doesn't add up, it wouldn't make sense, thats why I'm saying its not happening. I'm not just sitting here saying its fucking stupid, I'm also backing up why I think its fucking stupid. I'm doing it in a condescending and belittling way, but I'm still doing it and I'll probably drop the dick attitude if someone would actually respond to my criticisms instead of just blathering on and on, because that only makes "Mr. Reese" look like more of a complete and total reach.

And Hulk was alright, better than the last one. I'd expect the DVD in October. TDK for Christmas is almost a lock.

Edited August 25, 2008 by Maxx

[MalaCloudy Black]

The Incredible Hulk came out in June.

[Mike Ockizitchy]

If only Nolan could see the chain reaction using a pseudonym like Mr. Reese would stir.

As JC said, I like that idea behind Penguin. I think it could be very fitting for his character to be a front for Harvey Dent. Perhaps Dent could be vindictive towards Gotham and Batman and his attack is re-organizing the Organized Crime in Gotham, sending it amok after the work he did.

I'm not sure why it seems out of the picture for him to fit in Nolans universe though. I mean, nicknames are nicknames. Given, the Penguin might be a bit harder to explain as a nickname, but as far as making him a respectable character in the Nolan universe, I'm not seeing it that hard. So maybe he has a old war injury, resulting in a limp, resembling a waddle. Maybe you could do something with the nose, perhaps wouldn't be neccesary, but even if you did I don't think it would have to be drastic. Perhaps even the logic behind the nickname could be because of the small beak like nose to go along with the fact his injury gives him the gimp. Doesn't seem so off base.

Maybe Dent could be in Arkham and some sort of force or circumstance alows him to escape, somehow leading to this relationship with Penguin on the outside.

On a side note, I think if Phillip Seymour Hoffman had gotten the role his brilliance as an actor alone would keep the role very respectable. He's the fuckin man. Period.

[C-MIL]

It's probably something to the effect of The Riddler going after Mr. Reese because he knows Batman's identity which The Riddler, being a wacky villainous type, would want to know. The opening scene will probably have Riddler torturing the guy to death, coupled with a contrived movie line like "One way or another, tonight Gotham's Mr. Reese will end. Diabolical laughtah!"

Either way, I doubt that the guy holding the key to the mystery being named and referred to as Mr. Reese is a coincidence.

[Maxx]

See there's the problem with the rampant speculation. To alot of people its become completely unbelievable that "Mr. Reese" could just be his name. Thats a pretty sad state for it to be in, considering it's basically just a rumor started by fanboys, who are now clutching to it like its the gospel, acting like its a hint on the level of The Joker one at the end of Begins, which Nolan didn't even come up with.

Its is completely possible that the "Mr. Reese" name is just his name. As I've said before, if you're pronouncing it like it was said in the movie, you only get to the word mysteries if you purposely mispronounce it. That kind of takes away from its credibility right there. Th e only "hint" that The Riddler could pop up in the third film is the mispronounciation of a minor character's name? Forgive me for not buying into it.

Again, this is film 3 years away, the first draft hasn't even been written yet. Doubt that? Nolan and Co. haven't signed on to do a third, which means they haven't gotten paid, so I highly doubt they've started writing anything. We like to assume their all uber Bat fans and doing it for the love of the genre, but you're kidding yourself if you think they'll start work on the next film without getting paid first.

Edited August 25, 2008 by Maxx

[Guest Mr. Potato Head]

Maybe he'll be the first to combine peanut butter and chocolate in a cup?

[apsham]

SHUT UP, SHUT UP, SHUT UP.

You have NO REASON to believe that he will do that, just because his last name is Reese... I KNOW IT SOUNDS LIKE REESES BUT ONLY IF YOU TRY.

[Olive the other Jiberdeer]

Yeah, everything points to Dent being dead. Even the script.

See?

And just to hammer the point home further, the script by Jonah and Christopher Nolan -- included in The Dark Knight: Featuring Production Art and Full Shooting Script -- states, "Dent lies at the bottom of the hole, his neck broken. DEAD." The capitalization is their emphasis not ours.

[Dr. Rated-R]

Yeah, everything points to Dent being dead. Even the script.

See?

And just to hammer the point home further, the script by Jonah and Christopher Nolan -- included in The Dark Knight: Featuring Production Art and Full Shooting Script -- states, "Dent lies at the bottom of the hole, his neck broken. DEAD." The capitalization is their emphasis not ours.

That's easily worked around, though. It's not like a Battle Royale-esque death indicator popped up when he fell. Considering no story has been penned for the third film, it's entirely possible Dent could return. His entire arc in the film seemed to lend itself to that pretty well, until his demise.

I'm not disputing the fact that this is solid evidence to look over him, just stating he shouldn't be written out as a consideration completely. Ideas change all the time.

I forget. Do we see Dent's body at the funeral? Is it possible (based solely on what was ultimately seen on film, not what the script claims) that he was merely assumed dead, only to eventually stagger away on his own power?

I did the midnight showing, so a few things towards the end are a little hazy.

[apsham]

No, it would NEVER be that Dent just 'staggered away'... that doesn't make sense at all. There were lots of cops around, etc.... there's just no way. There is one and only one way to make it so Dent is alive... and that's to simply have Gordon place him in Arkham under an assumed name. We never did see a body no in that scene.

As far as the script goes... it was written before Ledger died. Since the SCRIPT didn't appear in the movie, they could easily ignore that part.

[Dr. Rated-R]

No, it would NEVER be that Dent just 'staggered away'... that doesn't make sense at all. There were lots of cops around, etc.... there's just no way. There is one and only one way to make it so Dent is alive... and that's to simply have Gordon place him in Arkham under an assumed name. We never did see a body no in that scene.

As far as the script goes... it was written before Ledger died. Since the SCRIPT didn't appear in the movie, they could easily ignore that part.

The phrase "stagger away" was essentially just a placeholder for any number of situations that would lead to his survival. Your own theory, escaping via aid from a character we'll meet later on, or any other situation with even remote plausibility can be plugged in there.

And yeah, Ledger's death is the key catalyst for a possible Dent return. It sort of throws whatever groundwork that may have been in place for a sequel out the window.

[Crybaby Bunting]

I understand that Dent could possibly come back but I don't get the reasoning that you didn't see the body... It's a funeral not a corpse parade how can that confirm that he's coming back?

If there's one thing about the funeral scene that might imply a Dent return is that the whole thing was implied and that the funeral DIDN'T take place.

I'm guessing that if the entire Batman movie franchise was meant to be a trioigy it makes sense to introduce new characters rather than repeat a key character again. I think the Joker is gone, Dent is gone and they'll pick up another villain for the climax. As this is an entirely new Batman "universe" it doesn't matter that Two Face didn't do all those things he hasn't yet done in the comic books, this is about what is happening now. Doc Ock did more in the Spider-Man comic books than the films because the film was a fresh start, I think the entire aim of the Dark Knight was to show the rise and fall of Dent and that's what's happened here.

[Skummy]

Yeah, you never see a funeral, you see a memorial service, if I remember correctly. Very different. There's the possibility that Dent could have slinked away into the night as the cops were running off after Batman, and their clumsiness in not keeping watch on him was covered up by Gordon, or any other number of possibilities. As this time it's just impossible to say, but I'd be VERY surprised if Dent doesn't factor into the next film somehow, considering the majority of the last film was building up to Two-Face.