The England thread

[Matt]

Man, we really need some good centre halves. Cahill, Jagielka, Jones and Smalling? The former two have gone downhill in the last couple of years and we're always acceptable at best, the latter two are just never going to be good enough to play international football at a decent level. It seems really weird that we're not producing world class centre backs any more, that's the one place we never used to have a problem.

Edited May 21, 2015 by Gary MattAllister

[Jimmy]

Man, we really need some good centre halves. Cahill, Jagielka, Jones and Smalling? The former two have gone downhill in the last couple of years and we're always acceptable at best, the latter two are just never going to be good enough to play international football at a decent level. It seems really weird that we're not producing world class centre backs any more, that's the one place we never used to have a problem.

It's a little bit worrying that Terry is still significantly better than either of these four as well.

[DavidMarrio]

Man, we really need some good centre halves. Cahill, Jagielka, Jones and Smalling? The former two have gone downhill in the last couple of years and we're always acceptable at best, the latter two are just never going to be good enough to play international football at a decent level. It seems really weird that we're not producing world class centre backs any more, that's the one place we never used to have a problem.

It is strange because just by looking at the squads for major competitions over the last 15 years its gotten worse nearer the end. There was a time when centre backs were struggling to get into the team or the squad at one point.

Euro 2000= Tony Adams, Gareth Southgate, Martin Keown, Sol Campbell

World Cup 2002= Gareth Southgate, Sol Campbell, Martin Keown, Rio Ferdinand

Euro 2004= Jamie Carragher, John Terry, Rio Ferdinand, Ledley King, Sol Campbell

World Cup 2006 = Jamie Carragher, John Terry, Rio Ferdinand, Sol Campbell

World Cup 2010= Jamie Carragher, John Terry, Ledley King, Michael Dawson, Matthew Upson

Euro 2012= John Terry, Phil Jones, Joleon Lescott, Phil Jagielka

World Cup 2014= Phil Jagielka, Gary Cahill, Phil Jones, Chris Smalling.

You can possibly argue from 2010 onwards it's started to get worse. And as Jimmy's pointed out John Terry is better than centre backs at the minute. If you take out Jagielka and Cahill who is there after them two in terms of the future? John Stones?

[badotori]

Man, we really need some good centre halves. Cahill, Jagielka, Jones and Smalling? The former two have gone downhill in the last couple of years and we're always acceptable at best, the latter two are just never going to be good enough to play international football at a decent level. It seems really weird that we're not producing world class centre backs any more, that's the one place we never used to have a problem.

Think Callum Chambers and John Stones could both turn out to be ideal replacements for Cahill and Jags in the coming years.

I agree with you about Jones and Smalling though, as much as I love me some Phil Jones. Smalling's improving, especially in the big games, but they're both too error prone for international level.

I know he's been playing well recently and a few strikers are injured but can't believe Vardy's getting a call-up. There's no-one else over the age of 21 who could play?

Lallana and Townsend over Young is a piss-take too.

EDIT: Only other English centre-back I can think of playing regularly for a top-10 team not called John Terry is Ryan Shawcross and that's not going to happen.

Edited May 21, 2015 by badotori

[TCO]

That Euro 2004 central defender set is ludicrously good, I think it'll be a very long time if ever before they produce anything near that level.

Stones is good but I think Chambers is a bit shit, both at right back and centre back.

[badotori]

That Euro 2004 central defender set is ludicrously good, I think it'll be a very long time if ever before they produce anything near that level.

If it weren't for his injuries, I think Jonathon Woodgate would have been close to that group too.

[Colly]

I think you can do that 15 year comparison for most of the squad outside of Hart and maybe Rooney and draw the same conclusions, certainly full backs and forwards.

[Adam]

John Stones will be the man for England at the back in years to come, I don't think we're too bad if it's him and Cahill in a couple of years. We do need depth though, pretty much right across the pitch. I'm not sure why Townsend keeps getting called up, but then Hodgson clearly likes him and he seems to do better for England than his club.

Happy for the new players getting called up. Vardy has worked so hard this season and has been a big part of Leicester staying up. Austin undoubtedly deserves his place too. Heaton I haven't seen too much of but he's always had a decent reputation and we are notoriously thin on back-up goalies.

Also, our squad under Sven was ridiculous when you look back. How did we not even make the semi finals of a major tournament?

[Colly]

That Euro 2004 central defender set is ludicrously good, I think it'll be a very long time if ever before they produce anything near that level.

If it weren't for his injuries, I think Jonathon Woodgate would have been close to that group too.

I think he'd have been in, probably playing alongside Rio. Don't forget as Terry came in all the talk was of him being too slow. He proved everyone wrong, but Woodgate was exceptional when fit.

[Whisper]

John Stones will be the man for England at the back in years to come, I don't think we're too bad if it's him and Cahill in a couple of years. We do need depth though, pretty much right across the pitch. I'm not sure why Townsend keeps getting called up, but then Hodgson clearly likes him and he seems to do better for England than his club.

Happy for the new players getting called up. Vardy has worked so hard this season and has been a big part of Leicester staying up. Austin undoubtedly deserves his place too. Heaton I haven't seen too much of but he's always had a decent reputation and we are notoriously thin on back-up goalies.

Also, our squad under Sven was ridiculous when you look back. How did we not even make the semi finals of a major tournament?

I'm not convinced Jamie Vardy should be anywhere near international football, friendlies or otherwise.

Though "running around a lot" is a typically English reason for a call up.

[Jimmy]

Maybe not, but it gives Hodgson a chance to see what he's like training with squad, see what he's like. Doesn't mean he's definitely going to play.

[DavidMarrio]

I think you can do that 15 year comparison for most of the squad outside of Hart and maybe Rooney and draw the same conclusions, certainly full backs and forwards.

I think in terms of fullbacks though in relation to depth its got a promising future. Clyne and Bertrand have been impressive for Southampton, theres Luke Shaw, Flanagan looked good second half of last season.

Centre Back is probably the biggest stand out, that and as you said forwards.

[brenchill]

Jamie Vardy? Gimmie a fucking break.

[Matt]

That Euro 2004 central defender set is ludicrously good, I think it'll be a very long time if ever before they produce anything near that level.

If it weren't for his injuries, I think Jonathon Woodgate would have been close to that group too.

I think he'd have been in, probably playing alongside Rio. Don't forget as Terry came in all the talk was of him being too slow. He proved everyone wrong, but Woodgate was exceptional when fit.

Yeah everyone always touts King as "what could have been if he'd been fit" but Woodgate was as good if not better. There was a reason that Real Madrid signed him and a reason that of all the players we sold for peanuts, his sale was the one that really angered our fans, moreso than Smith being sold to the filth, moreso than the 30m+ rated Kewell being sold for 7m.

The fact he was a grade A cunt is probably the only reason he's not remembered as favourably as King.

[Thrilla]

The only reason Vardy has looked good this year is because Cambiasso has been pulling the strings for Leicester's middle and finding his runs. I can't see a similar situation happening in the international squad.

[badotori]

Maybe not, but it gives Hodgson a chance to see what he's like training with squad, see what he's like. Doesn't mean he's definitely going to play.

Would rather him do this with someone along the lines of Callum Wilson or Troy Deeney if Roy's going to pick an untested striker. Both younger, both going to be getting Premiership football next season - get them in the squad, let them train with established premier league players, get a feel for how they play.

[Whisper]

Maybe not, but it gives Hodgson a chance to see what he's like training with squad, see what he's like. Doesn't mean he's definitely going to play.

Equally though, he's 28. It's not like he's going to develop much beyond where he is now.

Picking him doesn't make a great deal of sense to me. Particularly when up top is probably the strongest area of the team. He's way down the pecking order and picking him, "to see how he gets on" seems a tad redundant at 28.

Even more so when, given recent form, Ashley Young can't get a game.

[Adam]

I'm not sure what everyone's problem is. It's only for two friendlies in the summer. He's behind Kane, Berahino and Ings in the pecking order anyway, it's just none of them are available. And Sturridge.

I'm happy for him, he's the kind of player you want in your team and he was playing in the Conference North four years ago. Now he's in the England squad. It's great.

[badotori]

One friendly and one qualifier, totally different story.

[Whisper]

I'm not sure what everyone's problem is. It's only for two friendlies in the summer. He's behind Kane, Berahino and Ings in the pecking order anyway, it's just none of them are available. And Sturridge.

I'm happy for him, he's the kind of player you want in your team and he was playing in the Conference North four years ago. Now he's in the England squad. It's great.

It's great for him, and a great story. But players with comparably limited technical ability who work hard are not exactly what we should want in the national team.

Surely we'd have been far better off picking a younger player who might actually have a chance of making it in the future?

I get that the Under 21s aren't available but somebody like James Wilson (not saying he should have picked James Wilson, just an example) would benefit far more from training with, and being around, the England setup than a 28 year old who has never made a squad before and probably won't do again.