***spoilers*** UFC News and Discussion Thread

[Guest Mr. Potato Head]

Also, wrestling fans seem to be taking some perverse pleasure out a guy who wrestled purely for the money, for a relatively short period of time, coming in and winning the UFC HW title. It's almost as fucked as the blind elitist MMA fans not wanting anything to do with Brock Lesnar.

EBG nailed the truth of it, 100%. Because both sides of that argument basically play into the fallacy that Lesnar's brief pro-wrestling background makes him any less an MMA fighter. If anything it's a sign of the times: that MMA has become the more desirable career path for a pure athlete like Lesnar. And that's what he is: not a fraud, not a pro-wrestling huckster. A pure athlete. Enough of the "Purists hating on the outsider", or "Outsiders laughing at the purists" bullshit. Last night a pro-wrestler did not make mockery of MMA, an MMA athlete beat one of the greatest fighters the sport has seen in only his 3rd UFC fight. This is GOOD for MMA. I was cheering for Randy all along and even I can see that.

Absolutely. Look at where UFC's heavyweight division stood a year ago - probably not a single match that could be a legitimate main event. Now you've got Lesnar able to main event on his own (and a rematch with Mir would do HUGE business), Couture back and still a decent drawing card, and guys like Gonzaga and Dos Santos on their way up.

[SRN]

One could say that Brock Lesnar is almost the mirror opposite of Kimbo Slice.

White, talented and winning.

[Mountainous Cleavage]

Yikes, those hammerfists from hell were brutal. That would be the last thing I'd want to get hit by, imagine scrambled eggs for brains.

[Summers]

Finally watched most of the fights, nothing too exciting overall. Solid card though. Lesnar winning was bound to happen, too big and powerful for Randy to handle.

[Mancuerda]

I saw Maia during 87, he is so impressive getting past the knees (still not up on all the MMA lingo, someone tell me what that's called)...and he was again tonight. My Foxtel froze just as he got the other guy's back, and I missed the actual ending, but I thought it would be over at that point.

I'm really late to the thread, but if you're referring to when both fighters are on the mat and one gets past the other fighter, it's called "passing their guard".

There are a lot of different types of guards... full guard, half guard, butterfly guard...

There are a few positions considered to be dominant... full mount, side control, rear mount...

Hope that helps.

Anyway, Lesnar was my pick to win. I thought he would do it by TKO as well, so I'm not really surprised. Randy managed to neutralize some of his raw power during the first round, but I think Lesnar won round one. Couture just got caught with a big punch... and was promptly hammerfisted 20 times in the face.

Lesnar is an animal, but he doesn't stand a chance against Minotauro. When Nog beats Mir on December 27th at UFC 92 (which also has Griffin versus Evans for the LHW title, and Rampage versus Wandy... easy candidate for card of the year) he'll submit Brock during their fight. Nog's jiujitsu is second to none.

Speaking of jiujitsu, Demian Maia rules. Nuff said.

Also, wrestling fans seem to be taking some perverse pleasure out a guy who wrestled purely for the money, for a relatively short period of time, coming in and winning the UFC HW title. It's almost as fucked as the blind elitist MMA fans not wanting anything to do with Brock Lesnar.

Actually, he's a former NCAA Champion and went 106-5 in collegiate wrestling...

EDIT: Sorry, didn't see the entirety of your full post. I now see what you were saying.

Edited November 16, 2008 by Master Shakespeare

[IDOL]

Also, wrestling fans seem to be taking some perverse pleasure out a guy who wrestled purely for the money, for a relatively short period of time, coming in and winning the UFC HW title. It's almost as fucked as the blind elitist MMA fans not wanting anything to do with Brock Lesnar.

Actually, he's a former NCAA Champion and went 106-5 in collegiate wrestling...

Yes we all know that. Doesn't change the fact that the other statement is true as well...

[Mancuerda]

Fortunately, nobody I talk to is like that, though. The people I talk to who are wrestling fans are more proud that Brock Lesnar was able to make the commitment and show that pro wrestlers are athletes, too.

I haven't seen anybody who was pleased that MMA might be "weakened" by this event (though I disagree in that case. As mentioned above, if anything, this will make UFC more popular).

[Evansfan1]

I thought the whole card was really exciting. Stephens brutal KO, Hendricks looking like a pussy when stepping toe-to-toe with Gonzaga, some sick submissions, slugfest between Gurgel and Riley, and then of course Brock vs. Couture. I was really impressed with Florian, Maia and Hazelett all utilizing their BJJ. Hazelett transitioning into the omoplata was just truly amazing. I was disappointed Gurgel didn't try and take Riley down and work him to his advantage, but it was a nice bout with the two just going at it and swinging.

Then it comes to Brock vs. Couture. At the end of the first round I was worried for Brock as he was checking the time continuously throughout the last minute, which almost allowed Couture a takedown. But then Brock caught Couture early in the second and I thought that would be it, but he didn't take advantage right away. Thats when I thought Couture was actually going to win in the later rounds, and then he wound up cutting Lesnar. Amazingly Brock caught him again and words don't describe how fast Brock's fist moved to finish Couture off. A good fight, well hyped. Overall a good night and I just want a Brock vs. Mir rematch.

[gunnar hendershow]

Fortunately, nobody I talk to is like that, though. The people I talk to who are wrestling fans are more proud that Brock Lesnar was able to make the commitment and show that pro wrestlers are athletes, too.

I haven't seen anybody who was pleased that MMA might be "weakened" by this event (though I disagree in that case. As mentioned above, if anything, this will make UFC more popular).

It'd be weakened in credibility if, say, Shane McMahon were to win or something. Someone with no athletic background. When you look into, Brock's credentials are just as good if not more than what other MMA fighters have. He's got an extensive wrestling AND football background (the first being more important) as well as incredible size. The man is going to, as long as he keeps working at it, be a great fighter.

Also, seeing some of the posts here, and myself not being up to date on a lot of MMA phrases and history, I think one of the experts here should post a good FAQ of sorts for everyone to better understand MMA.

[Guest Mr. Potato Head]

How about you ask questions and the 'experts' answer them? Since I for one have no idea what you're looking for in a FAQ.

[Ananas]

Not to mention a FAQ about a sport that's a hybrid of a half-dozen others is going to be more of a mini-novel.

[gunnar hendershow]

How about you ask questions and the 'experts' answer them? Since I for one have no idea what you're looking for in a FAQ.

Basically I'd like to know more about the predominant styles of fighting, and the different styles of attack and defense in a fight. I know a lot about the fighters themselves, who's "good" and who's "bad", but I'm not well-versed on the terminology. Basically what disciplines are most common, essential, if there's one style that tends to be better than the others, etc.

[Quom]

You would be best off hiring/buying TUF they explain a lot of shit on that. Most stuff is easy to pick up just by watching though. Within 3 or 4 PPVs you should know pretty much everything.

And there isn't really one dominant style anymore. BJJ still has it's place, Muay Thai is probably the best stand up and wrestling is becoming more predominant and successful with Evans, Koscheck, Randy, Brock etc. In reality though everyone is hybrid nowdays and it's just a matter of a fighter finding what works for them from each discipline. Brock sort of proves this. He came in with no take down defence and got tapped by Mir, works on his game expanding it beyond wrestling and practicing his sub defence and he's capable of taking out Couture. Most guys excel at one or two things but no successful fighter doesn't train in a wide range of disciplines/skills.

Edited November 17, 2008 by QuomQuat

[Guest Mr. Potato Head]

How about you ask questions and the 'experts' answer them? Since I for one have no idea what you're looking for in a FAQ.

Basically I'd like to know more about the predominant styles of fighting, and the different styles of attack and defense in a fight. I know a lot about the fighters themselves, who's "good" and who's "bad", but I'm not well-versed on the terminology. Basically what disciplines are most common, essential, if there's one style that tends to be better than the others, etc.

Just about everybody would give you a different answer to that question.

I still put Brazillian Jiu-Jitsu (BJJ) at the top of the pile. BJJ is what you saw from Demian Maia last night - complete and total ground control, deadly submissions, somebody who can be doing two completely different things with different limbs at the same time.

Of course, BJJ isn't unbeatable - you need to get your opponent down to the ground in the first place, and if they're a great striker (Gabriel Gonzaga being an example from last night), you make one wrong move and you're knocked out. Muay thai is generally considered the best striking discipline.

There's a lot more to it than that, but that's a bit of an idea.

[The Punisher]

I'll try with an FAQ. Shouldn't be too hard, I'll try to go over the styles, famous fights, etc.

As for the event itself, it was one of the better events of the year. No fight was really born, the preliminary fights were good, and there was some good stuff. I'm happy that Brock won, but I hope Randy doesn't retire.

[ZJ Penn]

Awesome, awesome, awesome.

Went to a friends house to watch this because he was having a party for something (birthday I think) and couldn't believe how many of the people there ended up gathering round the TV to watch it. Girls I've known for years who've never even shown an interest in any sport were into it picking favourites and everything. I actually sacked off most of the card because I could watch it when I got home anyway and decided to use the time to get to know a lovely lady better over George Carlin and beer .

Anyhow, made it back in time for the main event and it was a great atmosphere as the room was split between the MMA fans and women in Coutures favour and the rest in Lesnars (most knew him from WWE). I really felt Lesnar was gonna win this one although at the start of Round 2 was thinking that Couture was gonna pull it off with the cut and Lesnar not quite looking all there. Then of course he gets smashed with a fucking freight train of a right and it's lights out. Oh, and the people who thought the hammerfists not being stopped early was bad, what about the Gonzaga fight? Hendricks was clearly finished so Gonzaga took a step back only for the referee to tell him to hit him again!

Caught up with the whole event after I caught up on my sleep and it was a good undercard too like everyones mentioned. Looks like great marketing by the UFC as usual too, as the non-MMA fans were saying they'd check out Ultimate 2008 and that is going to be fantastic. The likely uber-exciting Wanderlei/Rampage III and two title fights? Yes please. Even better for UFC is that regardless of who wins between Nog/Mir (although it's 99% Minotauro), the unification fight will sell. Nog/Lesnar is a superfight, while Mir/Lesnar II could by hyped by an eight year old.

So yeah, it was a great night. I'm not even going to get into the Lesnar debate because frankly I can't even see an argument. Lesnar is awesome, and who'd have thought a former WWE Champion would be able to put forward a legit claim to be the toughest heavyweight fighter in the world?

[Mancuerda]

I agree that BJJ is likely the most dominant style right now, on the ground at least. Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira and Anderson Silva are known for their jiujitsu. In the latter case, Anderson also has great Muay Thai (he uses the Muay Thai clinch with knees better than probably anybody).

Wrestling is a great background, but there are different styles of that... there's the Greco-Roman style, which is more suited for stand-up. Randy Couture came from this background. Brock Lesnar uses the freestyle wrestling technique, and it's more suited for ground and pound.

There are a ton of styles, though. It'd be hard to compress them, and I'd likely forget them.

A guy like Georges St. Pierre or Fedor Emelianenko, as well as BJ Penn and Anderson Silva... these four are probably the best fighters in the world right now. I would say Fedor is the best pound for pound fighter, with the other three tied for second place, most likely.

Anyway, all four are known as being very versatile. BJ Penn came from a jiujitsu background and is a legitimately world class blackbelt jiujitsu practitioner. However, his last fight was against Sean Sherk, a guy who came from a great wrestling background (ala Brock Lesnar). The fight was scheduled to go five five-minute rounds, like all championship fights in the UFC. The first three rounds of the fight were standup, and BJ Penn picked him apart. He just had better precision striking, and they really didn't go to the ground hardly at all. Penn uses his jiujitsu and his flexibility to have incredible takedown defense, which is one of the most important elements of MMA, because you don't want to spend a lot of time getting slammed on the mat, obviously... Uh, anyhow, BJ Penn is the current Lightweight Champion, and he destroyed Sean Sherk, who I'd consider to be a top 5 lightweight.

Georges St. Pierre actually didn't have a major background before entering MMA. However, he had incredible conditioning and the guy was a sponge. He took on the freestyle wrestling technique and really learned a lot of striking and technique overall. He wound up beating Matt Hughes (one of the best wrestlers in MMA... ever) by taking him down and grounding and pounding him, which nobody really expected to happen. It just shows that the evolution of MMA is continuing, and fighters are getting better and better, more well rounded. GSP very much represents what a figher of today looks like. They are very well conditioned and know a lot of styles. GSP fought Jon Fitch recently, defending the Welterweight Title. Jon Fitch was the #2 Welterweight in the World according to Sherdog. GSP dominated him in five rounds, using a mixture of stand up and takedowns. Fitch was considered to have great takedown defense, but GSP took him down at will and decimated him.

Fedor Emelianenko is the best today, I would say, and has never been defeated. He has beaten Antonio Nogueira (current UFC Heavyweight Champion) on two occasions in decisive fashion. He is ranked as the #1 Heavyweight in the World and has been for several years. The guy is probably never going to fight in the UFC (for a variety of reasons - one, Dana White is a dick - two, Fedor doesn't fight in the Octagon... he prefers a normal ring set up - three, Fedor can make more money working various fighting leagues outside of the UFC).

And of course, Anderson Silva, who I think is overrated but still tremendously talented. Silva's background was Brazilian Jiujitsu. He picked up Muay Thai striking and has learned a lot of styles and techniques, and he's right now considered by UFC to be the best Pound for Pound fighter around, though that's greatly contested.

So those are probably the top four fighters in the world today. They each know a variety of styles and techniques, and it just shows you can't really rely on one technique and one style...

I would probably throw Forrest Griffin in as a great example of somebody who has been a real 'sponge' and absorbed all these styles and techniques from a variety of disciplines and has progressed as a fighter and become one of the best fighters in the sport today.

Eh, that's enough for now...

EDIT:

Urijah Faber would've been mentioned if he hadn't just gotten his ass handed to him by Mike Brown.

EDIT:

Actually, yeah, Urijah Faber for honorable mention as one of the best fighters today and another guy known for his versatility and all around training.

Edited November 17, 2008 by Master Shakespeare

[Thrilla]

I love the number one reason that Fedor isn't in the UFC there is that Dana White is a dick and nothing to do with Fedor's absolutely ridiculous demands.

And top to bottom this was probably the best show the UFC has ever put on and something they really needed after the last few lacklustre outings. Lesnar as the champ is an interesting one (not an overly surprising one for me as I saw this match basically being a modern version of Couture/Barnett), if Mir gets past Nog (Unlikely) I can see Brock beating Mir pretty handily, I can't see Lesnar getting past Nog at the moment, his boxing is weak, his ground and pound is very sloppy and only effective because of how big he is and his submission game appears non-existant, its difficult to see where he can beat Nog, even lay and pray would be a difficult strategy given how good Nog is off his back.

Also, Hazelett is badass. He's like a good version of Luke Cummo.

Edited November 17, 2008 by The Man Called NBT

[Herr Matzat]

Hey guys,

i am looking to get Tickets for the upcoming UFC 99 Show in Germany. They have a presale starting this Monday for UFC Fight Club Members.

Since the UFC Fight Club Site states that you might have a Trial Code i just figured to ask you guys if you heared of any recent one being around... i only found one on google for the year 2007/some of 08, that one they handed out during live shows back than.

Would be greatly apriciated.

[Guest Mr. Potato Head]

If you want to talk about a specific MMA card as it's going on or just after it's finished, and don't want to be bothered spoiler-tagging everything for the News thread, talk about it here. (Big cards like UFC 100 will get their own live threads).

Obviously I'm not going to go all Nazi on you guys if stuff starts overlapping between the two threads, but let's try and keep this one to live event discussion and the News thread to general news.

So I guess the first show we'll be talking about in here is the Ultimate MMA show this weekend in Mississippi, headlined by Bobby Lashley vs. Bob Sapp. In names that are bigger deals to hardcores, Gilbert Yvel vs. Pedro Rizzo with the winner avoiding irrelevance for a little while longer is second from the top, with Din Thomas and Chris Horodecki also fighting.

Use the News thread until Saturday, the Prediction League thread to make your predictions, and this thread once the show starts.