The Dark Knight Rises

[munky]

I thought this was bloody dreadful. The dialogue was atrocious, with Batman and Catwoman trading witty quips in practically every scene, or doing the action here "show up, save the day, cheesy one-liner" shit that's exactly the kind of bullshit superhero tropes that Nolan's movies have allegedly been more "mature" and "dark" than.

Bane's voice was fucking ridiculous, even before the horrible and obvious overdubs that made it sound like his voice was coming from a different person entirely, and he hammed up his I AM VILLAIN role so much that it baffles me how people are praising him for his part.

"This nuclear device will explode when Bane sets it off!" is a clichéd but acceptable plot point. Then to almost immediately follow it up with "BUT OH NO IT MIGHT GO OFF EARLIER" just labours the point; why not just have Bane announce the detonation time as a fixed point, and be done with it? Hell, that's half the problem with this movie - whenever it could possibly take a route from A to B, it has to stop at C and usually D on the way there. "This nuclear device is decaying, and therefore is becoming stable" does not equate to "and therefore will detonate at a definite point in time".

The twist reveal of Talia was pointless, as nobody gave a shit about her character in the first place, so wasn't especially shocked when she turned out to be OH NOES EVIL. Her "romantic interest" subplot was so crowbarred in and pointless, why not just have her as the spokesperson for Bane from day one, with Bane as the muscle, rather than having to put up with Bane's stupid voice for the entire movie? Bane's strength is in his brute power - something he barely has the chance to demonstrate in the entire film. Or, if they are sticking with Bane as the super-intelligent leader - why bother with Talia at all? What did she add, twist or not twist?

Hell, even Catwoman was forced in just to get a big name in there for people who hadn't heard of Bane. The plot didn't require her at all, and nothing would have been lost had she not been included.

Talia, Bane and Batman had an entire conversation based around the assumption that Bane was the child of Ra's Al Ghul. This was a plot point which had only ever been brought up in Bruce Wayne's hallucination, yet because the audience had seen that, the other characters were acting as if it was common knowledge. Just fucking horrible film-making there.

How did Bruce Wayne - with no money whatsoever - make it from a middle-eastern prison, a location he didn't even know, back to Gotham? Hell, how did he even get out of the prison when it was previously revealed how fucked his knees were? It's not like Bane would have left him with his robot leg thing.

I'd like to know how much screen-time Batman - in the full costume - actually got in this Batman movie. Fuck, this whole thing could have been about an hour shorter. Just because something's long doesn't make it "epic".

At what point do people stop being able to seriously say, with a straight face, that these movies are "dark" and "gritty" and "serious", and a more "adult" or "mature" kind of superhero movie? Is it before or after the hero races through the streets in his custom-built spaceship after the villain in an ill-defined life support mask for half the movie?

That said, Michael Caine was absolutely superb in everything but the graveyard scene, where he fell prey to the same hammy overacting as everyone else in this bloody movie.

Thank you.

[fr34k]

No offense, but it's almost like you're trying to hate this movie too much. Ben has a point. Batman knows gotham inside out.

No, most people here (and elsewhere) are just way too forgiving when it comes to this movie. I didn't hate it as much as Skummy did, it actually was okay in my book, but he is pointing out legitimate criticism and if all you can say is "Well, he's Batman" and "oh come on man you're just nitpicking" you should maybe just not take part in the discussion at all. And NO this does not mean just because you enjoyed the movie that you shouldn't say anything. You should just try to make valid points and not brush criticism of just because you don't like it.

Edited July 31, 2012 by fr34k

[supergrass]

With regards to getting back into Gotham from the prison: I haven't seen Batman Begins since it was out in cinema, but as part of his training didn't Bruce Wayne spend years learning how to survive on nothing and travel around unnoticed?

[Benjamin]

Rethinking, his point about making that jump with a fucked up leg is valid.

Plus he snuck into gotham (with no passport either mind you) with time to shave... just in time to save gordon.

Hey good thing every single member of the army and media were watching to make sure no one snuck in. Hell bane didnt notice and it was his ultimatum.

6 out of ten. Fuck that ending. "Neatly wrapped up" my ass.

It's Batman. He gets in and out of every fucking where every fucking bloody time because he has an insane amount of knowledge, and especially about Gotham.

Good god, stop nitpicking.

Okay. Fine. If the benchmark for how to discuss this film is "because Batman", then I'm done.

Was "because Batman" all I said? Way to quote the wrong person, Skummy.

[brenchill]

Only problem I had with Bruce's return to Gotham was how little he cared about Selina Kyle putting him there in the first place. I think I would have been pretty pissed off...

[C-MIL]

He'd just spent a few months in a hole with two old dudes. He was happy to see a pretty girl. He's Batman!

[Liam]

Rethinking, his point about making that jump with a fucked up leg is valid.

Plus he snuck into gotham (with no passport either mind you) with time to shave... just in time to save gordon.

Hey good thing every single member of the army and media were watching to make sure no one snuck in. Hell bane didnt notice and it was his ultimatum.

6 out of ten. Fuck that ending. "Neatly wrapped up" my ass.

It's Batman. He gets in and out of every fucking where every fucking bloody time because he has an insane amount of knowledge, and especially about Gotham.

Good god, stop nitpicking.

Okay. Fine. If the benchmark for how to discuss this film is "because Batman", then I'm done.

Was "because Batman" all I said? Way to quote the wrong person, Skummy.

You kinda did. You quantified it, but the crux of your argument was 'it's ok because it's batman'.

You weren't the only one though.

[Summers]

oh my god how the fuck do you people enjoy anything? stop hating things just because. jesus christ.

[Skummy]

It's got nothing to do with him "knowing Gotham", it's do with him having been on the other side of the planet, and somehow making it back to Gotham. Even without Gotham being fortified and inaccessible, that's a hell of a gap in storytelling.

And I'm not just hating this "just because"; I paid for an overpriced cinema ticket, I wanted to enjoy this. Hell, I bloody loved The Dark Knight, and was hoping for more of the same. But I didn't get that, or anything close to it.

[Jimmy]

oh my god how the fuck do you people enjoy anything? stop hating things just because. jesus christ.

Bingo.

This thread has become stupid.

[Summers]

half the stuff you complained about is pointless and clutching at straws.

the bomb.

bane.

talia.

catwoman.

you even complain about people calling it dark and gritty.. but if you compare to other superhero films it IS dark and gritty.

you didn't like it. okay. that's fine and fair enough, but don't try extra hard to find faults on top of the faults that are actually there/

[Liam]

oh my god how the fuck do you people enjoy anything? stop hating things just because. jesus christ.

Bingo.

This thread has become stupid.

Did you not see the massive post Skummy posted about what was wrong with the film?

Have you not seen the other legitimate gripes people have?

This 'moaning because people disagree with you' is a fucking joke.

[Liam]

half the stuff you complained about is pointless and clutching at straws.

the bomb.

bane.

talia.

catwoman.

you even complain about people calling it dark and gritty.. but if you compare to other superhero films it IS dark and gritty.

you didn't like it. okay. that's fine and fair enough, but don't try extra hard to find faults on top of the faults that are actually there/

What makes you the overseer of what is a legitimate fault, and what is clutching at straws?

People have different opinions, you liked he, he didn't, it really doesn't matter.

[Summers]

half the stuff you complained about is pointless and clutching at straws.

the bomb.

bane.

talia.

catwoman.

you even complain about people calling it dark and gritty.. but if you compare to other superhero films it IS dark and gritty.

you didn't like it. okay. that's fine and fair enough, but don't try extra hard to find faults on top of the faults that are actually there/

What makes you the overseer of what is a legitimate fault, and what is clutching at straws?

People have different opinions, you liked he, he didn't, it really doesn't matter.

so it's fine to come in and say "this is shit, this is shit, this is a flaw, this is a flaw, this was silly, this was wrong" like it's fact.. but it's not okay to dispute those things? cool. fuck this, i'm done.

[Liam]

half the stuff you complained about is pointless and clutching at straws.

the bomb.

bane.

talia.

catwoman.

you even complain about people calling it dark and gritty.. but if you compare to other superhero films it IS dark and gritty.

you didn't like it. okay. that's fine and fair enough, but don't try extra hard to find faults on top of the faults that are actually there/

What makes you the overseer of what is a legitimate fault, and what is clutching at straws?

People have different opinions, you liked he, he didn't, it really doesn't matter.

so it's fine to come in and say "this is shit, this is shit, this is a flaw, this is a flaw, this was silly, this was wrong" like it's fact.. but it's not okay to dispute those things? cool. fuck this, i'm done.

He explained it, but why are the others even clutching at straws? You haven't even tried to discuss or dispute the other things, you just listed where he was wrong in your eyes. If you actually tried to discuss it, it wouldn't look like you were massively throwing your toys out of your pram.

[Jimmy]

I just fail to believe you can hate the film that much, like to the point where you hate basically everything about it. That screams of someone trying to hate it for the sake of it. I'm sure that's not the case. I don't wanna debate it. I enjoyed the film. Some people didn't. We'll all have to agree to disagree.

[Liam]

I just fail to believe you can hate the film that much, like to the point where you hate basically everything about it. That screams of someone trying to hate it for the sake of it. I'm sure that's not the case. I don't wanna debate it. I enjoyed the film. Some people didn't. We'll all have to agree to disagree.

Pretty much. I didn't think it was the greatest thing ever like some people did, but I also didn't think the second film was as good as people thought it was. Neither connected with me on the same level it did for other people on the board, but I'm seemingly in the minority for that.

[ChrisSteeleAteMyHamster]

I liked Cillian Murphy.

I could have watched him for at least an other hour. Hopefully the Blu-Ray release has an hour's worth of him trialling people.

[Skummy]

I hate the assumption in this, or any other, thread that I would be prepared to waste three hours of my time, and £8+ of my money just so that I could actively hate a movie.

Last I checked, this was a discussion topic for The Dark Knight Rises, not just a topic for people to discuss how wonderful they thought The Dark Knight Rises was. I could just as easily have come in here and said "jeez, how can you people enjoy this? You'll watch anything!" but, no, I didn't, because I appreciate that my opinion that this was a bad movie isn't any more valid than your opinion that it was a good movie. I just didn't feel the need to put down everyone who thinks differently to me in making my feelings known.

You know what? I'm a lifelong comic book nerd. I'm a Batman fan. I enjoyed Batman Begins, and I loved The Dark Knight. I think Arkham Asylum, Joker, The Killing Joke, The Dark Knight Returns and Whatever Happened To The Caped Crusader are some of the best comic books ever written. I think Arkham City is one of the best games I've played in years, and the best on the PS3. I think Lego Batman 1 & 2 are some of the most fun games I've ever played, and the '66 Adam West Batman movie is one of the greatest comedy movies of all time.

I like Batman. I like the character, and I like the different options available to writers as to how they portray that character, his world, and his rogue's gallery.

So much so that I went out to watch the new Batman movie because I'm a fan. But, no, apparently I'm incapable of enjoying anything because this movie happens to fall short of my expectations in quite a big way. At least in the likes of Batman & Robin you expect Batman to trade quips and one-liners with Mr. Freeze and Poison Ivy. But this is, allegedly, a "serious" movie that transcends the comic book movie genre, and treats its audience much more intelligently and seriously - yet we still get Catwoman bursting through the wall at the last possible second to save the day and fire off a cheesy action hero one-liner.

And when it comes to the gaping plot holes, terrible pacing and poor script-writing, that's not even a problem with this as a Batman movie. I'm not the type of nerd who gets up in arms when his precious comic book movie doesn't stick rigidly to the source material or when every little aspect of the character isn't taken into account. These are problems with this as a movie. They are problems with poor film-making.

Oh, and one more thing - while admittedly this is perhaps a necessary evil of the superhero genre, but nobody batting an eyelid that Batman returns after an eight year absence at almost exactly the same time Bruce Wayne comes out of hiding after eight months is hilarious.

Maybe other people can say "it's a movie, just enjoy it!" or "it wasn't bad for a summer blockbuster", but if I'm spending my money on something I want a little more to show for it than "it could have been worse", quite frankly.

No, I didn't hate every little thing about it. I thought Christian Bale, Michael Caine and Gary Oldman all put in fantastic performances. The effects were great, the sets were fantastic, and there were actually some pretty good set-pieces here and there. Bruce Wayne as a Howard Hughes-like billionaire recluse was an interesting idea. But the good was massively outweighed by the bad.

But, again, because I don't like something it's because I'm trying not to, obviously. It doesn't matter how well thought out and well reasoned by argument, if I disagree, it's because for some reason I just love not enjoying movies that other people like, and I'm actively looking for flaws in it (believe me, they're self-evident, if I'd wanted to I wouldn't have had to look too hard). But if someone liked the movie? Well, of course they did, because Batman.

[deli]

No, I didn't hate every little thing about it. I thought Christian Bale, Michael Caine and Gary Oldman all put in fantastic performances. The effects were great, the sets were fantastic, and there were actually some pretty good set-pieces here and there. Bruce Wayne as a Howard Hughes-like billionaire recluse was an interesting idea. But the good was massively outweighed by the bad.

I think that this is why we are arguing in the first place. There is no doubt that there are flaws in this film. But maybe we seem to like it more because we can overlook the flaws but you just can't ignore them. For me, I can easily ignore the minor plot holes due to the great acting and great set pieces

I just didn't feel the need to put down everyone who thinks differently to me in making my feelings known

The way you made your feelings known was done in a very aggressive way. You started your post with "This is bloody awful" what other response did you expect to get.

Oh, and one more thing - while admittedly this is perhaps a necessary evil of the superhero genre, but nobody batting an eyelid that Batman returns after an eight year absence at almost exactly the same time Bruce Wayne comes out of hiding after eight months is hilarious.

If you're are a comic book fan you know that stuff like this exists a lot in comic books. In superman returns Clark Kent's face looks EXACTLY THE SAME AS SUPERMAN'S BUT WITH GLASSES. its not that much of a big deal

But, again, because I don't like something it's because I'm trying not to, obviously. It doesn't matter how well thought out and well reasoned by argument, if I disagree, it's because for some reason I just love not enjoying movies that other people like, and I'm actively looking for flaws in it (believe me, they're self-evident, if I'd wanted to I wouldn't have had to look too hard). But if someone liked the movie? Well, of course they did, because Batman.

Once again you complain about people criticizing your post. But if you say shit like this you are not exactly helping yourself. You're also under the assumption that because we don't hate the movie like you do we must blindly love it. Not the case, earlier in the thread we all stated our issues with the film. So don't think that we're blind fanboys just because we don't hate a movie with all our breath and attack anyone else who disagrees.

Edited July 31, 2012 by deli2000