**SPOILERS!** A Thread of Ice And Fire: A Game of Thrones book discussion thread **SPOILERS**

[GhostMachine]

Someone told me that the show is definitely going off the rails from the books, because Jon should have died at the Wall. They misremembering, or what?

[DMN in the House]

He shouldn't die yet. There's still the election and his handling of the wildings to get through.

[Benjamin]

He dies about two books away, whoever told you that is misremembering.

Speaking of what Jon does next, I guess no Dalla or anything about that either, eh? I'm glad they kept Tormund alive, though, was sure they'd kill him.

[Gazz]

Jon's fate hasn't been resolved yet.

[Liam]

I thought the whole point of the end of the last book is that Jon may or may not be dead. It wasn't completely clear, or at least no-one has said 'oh look, there is Jon, he is dead', so could be explained away in the next book.

His ultimate fate at the end of A Dance With Dragons remains unclear; when asked by Entertainment Weekly "Why did you kill Jon Snow?", author George R.R. Martin responded "Oh, you think he’s dead, do you?"^{[S 3]}

Quote from Wiki, but yeah.

Edited June 16, 2014 by Captain Condom

[Benjamin]

Oh, whoops, sorry, I meant cliffhanger-dies.

[GhostMachine]

My guess as to why no Lady Stoneheart yet, aside from it being too early, is....isn't the actress on another show right now?

[Pizza]

I thought the whole point of the end of the last book is that Jon may or may not be dead. It wasn't completely clear, or at least no-one has said 'oh look, there is Jon, he is dead', so could be explained away in the next book.

I figure he is dead, but Melisandre's going to bring him back the way Thoros kept bringing Beric back.

[Roster Depth Sicko No. 2]

So, Episode 10. I loved it!

No Stoneheart was a small disappointment, but at the same time, I understand the decision. They've already had Tywin's death, Arya to Braavos, Tyrion's escape, Stannis bossing shit up in the North, and whatever the fuck Bran is doing; that's a lot of potential game changing moments in one episode. I can see them either leaving Stoneheart as the S5E1 'oh fuck, there's still more awesome?!' hook to set up the Brienne encounter later in the season, or having it midway through and doing both parts in one episode, which I don't think would have the same effect. Having Stone heart now, and then waiting a year for it to have any effect, may end up with the same effect as the White Walkers in S2E10 - forgotten until that part in Crasters, giving it a smaller impact.

Hound vs Brienne though - I'm not overly keen on deviations from the book, but that was totally worth it! Awesome fight scene, and a better way to right off The Hound than just 'infected wound', which they already basically used for Drogo.

[MalaCloudy Black]

http://io9.com/game-of-thrones-director-explains-the-finales-missing-c-1591613805?utm_campaign=socialflow_io9_facebook&utm_source=io9_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow

Graves continued: "They [showrunners David Benioff and Dan Weiss] have such a challenge adapting the books into a really focused television experience. It's very hard, it's very complicated, it's much harder then they've been given credit for, I think — and they do a brilliant job. But to bring back Michelle Fairley, one of the greatest actresses around, to be a zombie for a little while — and just kill people? It is really sort of, what are we doing with that? How does it play into the whole story in a way that we're really going to like? It just didn't end up being a part of what was going to happen this season. And finally one [more] reason: In case you didn't notice, a lot happens this season … To add that in is something they opted out of. But what's funny is that it was never going to be in the season, yet it took off on the Internet like it was going to happen."

We then asked Graves if there's any chance of the Lady appearing next season. "As somebody who's worked deep inside the show, begged to have an answer and wants more than anybody, I have no idea," he said. "They won't tell me. They're very good at being secretive."

[Thrilla]

I think they've spent a great amount of time at the capital. I get that it's the most interesting part of the series, but I feel that they've actually spent so much time there that everywhere else (barring Arya and the Hound and whatever Littlefinger does) is becoming so boring to people who watch the show. It's why people are disliking the Dany storyline, when it's actually one of the most interesting, and no one cared what happened at the Wall so long as the fat one didn't die. Sucks, but all fans of the show are really starting to care about is King's Landing.

Such a horrendous lie, Dany's arc is the dullest.

[Benjamin]

Really? I freaking love it, it was so fun when she was with the Dothraki and then after when she went to Qarth it got super interesting. Perhaps it slowed down a bit when she went on her crusade, but it was still full of her crazy counselors, a great set of characters there.

The dullest is undoubtedly Bran's, come on. I always frown whenever I turn the page and see his name on top of a new chapter. He and Catelyn's when she was going about the South and then back was dull as dishwater, the most interesting things happened were simply the Renly and Stannis' faceoff and Renly's death.

[Roster Depth Sicko No. 2]

Bran is definitely the most boring character to me, followed by Dany primarily because I wanted her to reach Westeros already The big three are Dany, Tyrion and Jon, there's no denying that, and Dany has definitely had the least interesting arc of the three in my opinion.

On a different topic, are we safe to discuss Season Five in here now? Found a leaked casting list that may help work out some of the story arcs that will get used.

[MalaCloudy Black]

Is it this one?

http://winteriscoming.net/2014/05/23/characters-confirmed-game-thrones-season-5-new-details/

[Roster Depth Sicko No. 2]

That is the one, albeit I found it through this link, which links to yours http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/110624-season-five-casting/

Filming in Spain and a very Martell/Sand Snake central list means we'll probably be seeing a lot of Dorne, which could be cool.

[Benjamin]

I kinda' fucking love Dorne, they all seem to be a little crazy and a little different from the rest of Westeros, so I am really glad of that. I assume a lot of next season will revolve around Dorne, Tyrion and Arya in Essos and the Greyjoys? Oh, and Cersei's descent into crazy, I can't wait for that one, to be honest.

[Roster Depth Sicko No. 2]

There's a lot I'm looking forward to next season, assuming these all make the cut.

- Stannis in the North and the Night's Watch elections

- Greyjoys

- Dany being forced to marry Hizdhar before being dumped back in the Dothraki Sea

- Lady Stoneheart, hopefully (They better not write her out!)

Also, I've seen rumours that Jaime (and Bronn, depending on the source you read) gets smuggled into Dorne, which is a pretty big deviation from the books. Lollys Stokeworth getting cast means there's definitely more Bronn to come though, so not complaining!

[Benjamin]

Oh man, it's gonna lead to a scene of him raping her as well, isn't it?

[Roster Depth Sicko No. 2]

Wait, Bronn doesn't rape Lollys in the books, does he? I thought he just fought and killed her sister's husband or something and became Lord Stokeworth.

[Benjamin]

He didn't, I'm pretty sure it's just something they'll do. Weird that the list doesn't include Arianne.