WWE 2k15

[TCO]

Remember when you paid full price for a game and they gave you all of the game without having to pre-order or pay more to get all the features?

Sure was fun.

That's not the case though.

When you buy a game - you get all the features for the most part. There are so egregious examples of this not being the case, but in an example like this I think it's fair to say that you're getting everything that was advertised. In this - the last month or so before release, we're getting information on what DLC is going to entail - and what DLC boils down to in cases like this is the idea that there has to be a cutoff point for new content. In the days before DLC, we never saw anything along the lines of what we "could've had" because there was no platform to deliver it to us. We couldn't get extra wrestlers in WWF Attitude because there was really no way to do it.

Irregardless of this, we were told that we were getting two storylines and a certain number of wrestlers. The WWE series is usually good for actually having most of the content NOT on the disc itsself (probably out of that list, just Paige) and I think a user will still get a great experience out of it without needing all the other stuff.

I do think it's the case. I refuse to believe that they couldn't include essentially all of this on the disc come release. It'd be different if they expanded say the roster with people who are debuting around now. If they gave me the new NXT guys, Hideo Itami, Finn Balor or Kevin Steen. That's additional content to the game.

This is just a bunch of stuff that at some point in development they decided to allocate as DLC and not include in a game I'm expected to pay €70 for and commit that money now if I want Sting. The pipedream of DLC might've been added content previously outside the realms of possibility due to time constraints or optical storage media but it's just not the case. They're segmenting stuff from the disc and still charging full price.

They're having their cake and eating it too. There's nothing wrong with that because the consumer has accepted it and it's most definitely the industry norm.

Also I didn't have a great experience with WWE 2K14 by buying just the game. There were hundreds of CAWs I coudln't download because they used DLC parts.

[Gabriel]

So, your major complaint is that you didn't get full enjoyment out of 14 because you didn't buy the DLC and thus could not download (for free) 100 extra wrestlers created by other people so that you don't have to?

I didn't get the DLC last year, but I still managed to snag 100 CAW's that were amazing without using the DLC. It's also worth noting, that before they added content sharing, that to add those wrestlers yourself would have taken a crazy amount of time. I typically spend more time fixing the rosters and creating players in sports games than I do actually playing the games, until I have everything set the way I want it to be.

With WWE, you're getting the game they want you to have at $70. Nothing is missing. You're playing the game as it was designed to be. You can argue that they could have included the DLC in the game at launch, but how do you know? Most games are completed months in advance of release, with the extra time used to fix any glaring issues prior to launch. It's likely that the DLC is stuff they wanted to include, but couldn't get into the game comfortably before release.

Essentially, we get the game they managed to finish prior to release, and less buggy than it would have been otherwise. The DLC is extra content that they can work on just before the release and after release. It's probable that most of this content isn't finished yet, and thus why it is going to be DLC.

[apsham]

...gah. I mean you can take the stance that the company is out to fuck you I suppose, but I just don't see it. I really just don't see it. They can't just develop something up to the final moment - it just makes no sense. As it has been pointed out, there has to be a point where you say "I know we can do this much, so that's how much we're going to do and that's how much we're going to announce" and that is absolutely what happened here. There are a ton of matches in the two stories that we know about and if it's up to par with presentation on the last number of games - that's a ton of work. Not to mention adding in career mode, etc.

If anything I can see them taking a list of the rivalries that they wanted to do, narrowing it down to two and saying that the others can be for DLC. They might not actually be done yet, they're probably en route to being finished. That's the thing I'd assume as being a reality more than "concious decision to hold back content". That's a bit paranoid. This is absolutely not a case of "they didn't have the storage before" - I guarantee you that DLC wrestlers became a thing the second that the technology made it possible and cost effective to do.

Also - I don't remember there being a huge issue with DLC content last year. After 2K13 I saw a lot of the better CAW makers conciously staying away from that kind of stuff. Even so, it wasn't like you'd have to buy EVERY piece of DLC just to get that wrestler.

[Brody]

sooo am I understanding correctly?

$40 game,

$25 season pass (paige, accellorator, unlock everything, christian/mark henry showcase feuds)

+ extra for warrior showcase feud.

+ extra for wcw superstar pack

+ extra for nxt superstar pack

+ extra for moves pack

that seems like an awful lot of content held-back from the game for DLC, and which falls outside of the season pass...

Season pass has always included all the DLCs so you aren't pricing correctly.

This year the Season Pass only includes the 3 extra showcase feuds, paige and accelerator. It only gives you a discount on the WCW, NXT and Moves packs.

[RoyWill Rumble]

Remember when you paid full price for a game and they gave you all of the game without having to pre-order or pay more to get all the features?

Sure was fun.

That's not the case though.

When you buy a game - you get all the features for the most part. There are so egregious examples of this not being the case, but in an example like this I think it's fair to say that you're getting everything that was advertised. In this - the last month or so before release, we're getting information on what DLC is going to entail - and what DLC boils down to in cases like this is the idea that there has to be a cutoff point for new content. In the days before DLC, we never saw anything along the lines of what we "could've had" because there was no platform to deliver it to us. We couldn't get extra wrestlers in WWF Attitude because there was really no way to do it.

Irregardless of this, we were told that we were getting two storylines and a certain number of wrestlers. The WWE series is usually good for actually having most of the content NOT on the disc itsself (probably out of that list, just Paige) and I think a user will still get a great experience out of it without needing all the other stuff.

I do think it's the case. I refuse to believe that they couldn't include essentially all of this on the disc come release. It'd be different if they expanded say the roster with people who are debuting around now. If they gave me the new NXT guys, Hideo Itami, Finn Balor or Kevin Steen. That's additional content to the game.

This is just a bunch of stuff that at some point in development they decided to allocate as DLC and not include in a game I'm expected to pay 70 for and commit that money now if I want Sting. The pipedream of DLC might've been added content previously outside the realms of possibility due to time constraints or optical storage media but it's just not the case. They're segmenting stuff from the disc and still charging full price.

They're having their cake and eating it too. There's nothing wrong with that because the consumer has accepted it and it's most definitely the industry norm.

Also I didn't have a great experience with WWE 2K14 by buying just the game. There were hundreds of CAWs I coudln't download because they used DLC parts.

Please, do inform me where you got all your game development experience that you can definitively say that the WWE 2K15 dev team is deliberately holding shit they've had done since before they had to be content locked to milk people for DLC/season pass money.

[Quom]

Remember when you paid full price for a game and they gave you all of the game without having to pre-order or pay more to get all the features?

Sure was fun.

That's not the case though.

When you buy a game - you get all the features for the most part. There are so egregious examples of this not being the case, but in an example like this I think it's fair to say that you're getting everything that was advertised. In this - the last month or so before release, we're getting information on what DLC is going to entail - and what DLC boils down to in cases like this is the idea that there has to be a cutoff point for new content. In the days before DLC, we never saw anything along the lines of what we "could've had" because there was no platform to deliver it to us. We couldn't get extra wrestlers in WWF Attitude because there was really no way to do it.

Irregardless of this, we were told that we were getting two storylines and a certain number of wrestlers. The WWE series is usually good for actually having most of the content NOT on the disc itsself (probably out of that list, just Paige) and I think a user will still get a great experience out of it without needing all the other stuff.

I do think it's the case. I refuse to believe that they couldn't include essentially all of this on the disc come release. It'd be different if they expanded say the roster with people who are debuting around now. If they gave me the new NXT guys, Hideo Itami, Finn Balor or Kevin Steen. That's additional content to the game.

This is just a bunch of stuff that at some point in development they decided to allocate as DLC and not include in a game I'm expected to pay 70 for and commit that money now if I want Sting. The pipedream of DLC might've been added content previously outside the realms of possibility due to time constraints or optical storage media but it's just not the case. They're segmenting stuff from the disc and still charging full price.

They're having their cake and eating it too. There's nothing wrong with that because the consumer has accepted it and it's most definitely the industry norm.

Also I didn't have a great experience with WWE 2K14 by buying just the game. There were hundreds of CAWs I coudln't download because they used DLC parts.

Please, do inform me where you got all your game development experience that you can definitively say that the WWE 2K15 dev team is deliberately holding shit they've had done since before they had to be content locked to milk people for DLC/season pass money.

Why are any of you actually speaking like you have any idea either way? Unless one of you has 'insider knowledge' or work at these companies none of you have any real clue either way and it's a pointless argument. Just because it wouldn't be the first time a publisher has done something shitty doesn't mean it's the case in this instance. Likewise it isn't the world's largest stretch given things publishers have done in the past.

I will say that it seems like a shameless money grab though. If you want to release DLC at least include all of it in the GOTY or season pass type stuff. It's bad enough people are already paying for it, without making it overly complicated to work out what you are buying and making it more and more expensive every year.

[Brody]

Without a doubt, Paige. You can also say any Day 1 DLC like the accelerator, but that's pushing it. I don't mind the Pass, I get it every year because I play the game enough to warrant the purchase, but the Paige thing is for sure to milk a Season Pass buy from people.

[Gabriel]

I do agree that a "Season's Pass" should include all DLC, because it could be misleading to do otherwise, as it is in this instance.

Most season's passes include all of the DLC, and the SP went up for pre-order before any information was released on what was included. Many, including myself, have pre-ordered the season's pass content under the assumption that all DLC would be included. It's kind of a pain in the ass to have to explain to my customers what is and what isn't covered under the SP, and it sucks that I'll probably end up putting almost $200 into this game (I got the Hulkamania Edition), but when I take a step back and think about how much use I get out of these games every year, I know that it's worth the money I'm spending. I do use it enough to warrant the total price.

I'd love for my $70 to cover everything I will need, but at the end of the day, for me, I get at least $200 out of WWE every year, whereas there are other games I pay $70 for and spend just a fraction of the time on.

I'll say the same thing I said in the NHL thread. Decide what this is worth to you, and pick it up when it is that price. Don't just ignore it because you don't think it's worth $70, $25 for the Season's Pass and a bit extra for more later on.

[zero]

Before DLC, they had to cut off the roster at least 7 months before the release of the game and in WWE, that's a lifetime. The roster is still the biggest it's ever been, so I don't really see how they're ripping you off by adding extra stuff. I'll take optional DLC over online passes any day.

[TheWho87]

[Troy Maskell]

The one thing I get pissed about DLC is the accelerator, and that's more a "Why do I have to go through everything to unlock what I want when I just want a few things just because I don't have a credit card?". If they opened up the options so you could go straight to the match you wanted to play that would eliminate it for me, but that locked off till you complete mode killed 13 and 14 for me because I only have limited time to play as it is, I don't want to put all the effort into meeting the objectives of every match just to unlock another f***ing Hogan palette swap.

Edited October 17, 2014 by Troy Maskell

[The Buscher]

Wyatt Family entrances look great. Harper looks ridiculously ripped but that's been the norm for the series. As cool as it'll be to have Harper and Rowan enter with Bray, I hope he has a solo entrance as well since the group will be going their separate ways.

[=BK=]

Man, I hope there is a version of the Harper and Rowan theme without the kid singing. I'd love to use that for one of my CAWs.

[Skummy]

The one thing I get pissed about DLC is the accelerator, and that's more a "Why do I have to go through everything to unlock what I want when I just want a few things just because I don't have a credit card?". If they opened up the options so you could go straight to the match you wanted to play that would eliminate it for me, but that locked off till you complete mode killed 13 and 14 for me because I only have limited time to play as it is, I don't want to put all the effort into meeting the objectives of every match just to unlock another f***ing Hogan palette swap.

But that's how video games work. You complete objectives to obtain rewards. It's like saying "why do I have to play level one and two when I only want to play level three? This is bullshit!".

[Troy Maskell]

In most games I agree but in sporting games that isn't the case, you can sim to the place/game you want (well not until this year in NBA but you get my point), in earlier versions of WWE/Smackdown v Raw you could enter a code to unlock the specific superstar you wanted or at least rush through to the moment of unlock without having to worry about every objective in every match because "Hey I might miss something". But now you can't do that because 'F*** You, Give me Money!". I just don't think I should be hamstrung because I have no credit card and crappy internet access

Edited October 18, 2014 by Troy Maskell

[Gabriel]

In most games I agree but in sporting games that isn't the case, you can sim to the place/game you want (well not until this year in NBA but you get my point), in earlier versions of WWE/Smackdown v Raw you could enter a code to unlock the specific superstar you wanted or at least rush through to the moment of unlock without having to worry about every objective in every match because "Hey I might miss something". But now you can't do that because 'F*** You, Give me Money!". I just don't think I should be hamstrung because I have no credit card and crappy internet access

WWE can't be considered a sports game, due to the fact that any career type modes have to be played as if you were playing any other story based game. There isn't a season in WWE, and it's not a game with a Franchise type mode. Universe is the closest thing, and it's not even close to where it should be yet.

The other thing you mentioned is that you think it's ridiculous to have to complete certain objectives to just get another Hogan attire. If you don't think it's worth it, maybe just don't go out of your way to get it? You know, you don't NEED to unlock everything in every game to get enjoyment out of it. Me personally, I don't use the codes that unlock stuff early when I pre-order stuff or get DLC. I go through the main game modes first, unlock what I can, and if there's something I can't seem to get, then I will use the code.

No credit card isn't even an excuse anymore. You can go to most gaming stores and purchase DLC codes with cash, debit or gift cards now... and your internet capability issues only go so far as "Can You Connect?", because if you can, you can download new content with a crappy connection. It just might take a bit longer.

I know plenty of people without internet access who still get season's passes and other DLC. They'll just pack their console over to a buddy's place, hook it up and download everything they need while just hanging out. Then they take it home and it's good to go.

Being bummed about accelerators, or other DLC that opens things up without having to unlock them the old fashioned way is as bad as the kids that would complain that their friends all had game genies and could unlock stuff without having to play the game. Half of the fun of playing the game is unlocking the stuff. If you're on PS4 and I can transfer my accelerator code to you, you can have the bloody thing man. I don't use it anyways. Ruins the fun for me.

[Colly]

Dear Gamesmaster, how can I get unlimited lives on Toejam and Earl?

[Tyrone]

New trailer out... Happy to see it's not WM 6 Warrior again with the crazy hair. Bray scene reminded me of Cape Fear.

Edited October 20, 2014 by Tyrone

[GRIFT]

Whoa, I could get behind a Crow-Stingesque John Cena who seethingly quotes Dylan Thomas in lieu of any heel turn.

[Henderson]

So, your major complaint is that you didn't get full enjoyment out of 14 because you didn't buy the DLC and thus could not download (for free) 100 extra wrestlers created by other people so that you don't have to?

I didn't get the DLC last year, but I still managed to snag 100 CAW's that were amazing without using the DLC. It's also worth noting, that before they added content sharing, that to add those wrestlers yourself would have taken a crazy amount of time. I typically spend more time fixing the rosters and creating players in sports games than I do actually playing the games, until I have everything set the way I want it to be.

With WWE, you're getting the game they want you to have at $70. Nothing is missing. You're playing the game as it was designed to be. You can argue that they could have included the DLC in the game at launch, but how do you know? Most games are completed months in advance of release, with the extra time used to fix any glaring issues prior to launch. It's likely that the DLC is stuff they wanted to include, but couldn't get into the game comfortably before release.

Essentially, we get the game they managed to finish prior to release, and less buggy than it would have been otherwise. The DLC is extra content that they can work on just before the release and after release. It's probable that most of this content isn't finished yet, and thus why it is going to be DLC.

The entire reason I've been tossing around the idea of buying this game is because why am I going to spend $60 on a game and then have to pay probably another $30 for extra things that should've been included in the first place? In the old days, you simply "unlocked" the extra features and didn't have to pay an additional $10 each for what's already in the game itself.

On top of that, I have a PS3, not a PS4. They've left out either the "season" mode or "universe", I can't remember which one from the PS3 and other modes are exclusive to the PS4 and Xbox One, for no particular good reason other than to get people to buy the new systems. So because I don't have the brand new systems, I'd pretty much have half of the game. This isn't because the feature can't be done on the XBox or PS3. If that were the case, I'd accept it fine, but it isn't.

The game makers are in the business to make money. It's not a matter of time constraints. Someone awhile back realized that they can sell a game for regular price (new PS and XBox games have always cost the same - $50-$60 which would give you the "full game" without paying more) and instead of adding in the extra features and making them unlockable, they can put it up for DLC and make people pay for it, because people WILL pay for it. It essentially doubles their profits on one single game.

Saying they didn't have time to program it in and that's the reason for DLC is ridiculous. They aren't upgrades they do over time, those are called patches and we don't have to pay for the patches (yet). DLC are features that are already included in the game code, they just make you pay for it to unlock it. It's like the modern day expansion pack, except with expansion packs, you actually got pretty much an entire additional game. They've known from the beginning that Sting was going to be in the game, yet the only way (currently) you can get him is to pre-order. I'm not even sure about Hogan, as he's probably only DLC at the moment. The stuff's already clearly in the game, otherwise they wouldn't be added in the trailers. Buying the game alone isn't what "was originally intended to be the full game." There's still a full list of other things included in the game that I can only get if I pay more. The argument was that isn't how it used to be. It used to be we bought a game for the same price and got the FULL game. It wasn't "go online and buy this to unlock this!"

It's about making money guys....That's the same reason we'll never see gas prices back to $.89/gallon....Because the oil companies realized they can triple their profits. Game makers realized they can at least double their profits with DLC.