What's a musical hill you will die on?

[Dan B.]

2 hours ago, SPQR said:

Same here.

Presets in my last car (that weren't those of the legal owner) were Liquid Metal, Hair Nation, Siriusly Sinatra, and 50's Gold (only because my car couldn't tune into Faction)

Yeah, in addition to Hair Nation my presets include Ozzy's Boneyard, Underground Garage, Classic Vinyl/Rewind (I think the button's actually set to Vinyl but the two are just a click apart), Lithium (which is also one click from First Wave), the '80s station (which is easy to use to get the other "decades pop hits" ones), Real Jazz, Soul Town, Symphony Hall, Bluegrass Junction, and I think I do have one for the '50s one too since they moved it away from the "decades" lineup.  I'm sure I'm forgetting a few.  It's a good way to show passengers just how interesting and eclectic I am, right? 😛

I think I do still have one set to the old-time radio station, but I rarely listen to it only because I'm rarely in the car at the exact time a show's starting.  I usually just use an OTR streamer app for those.

[zero]

Country music is bad. I understand there are plenty of "real" country artists who put out good music, indie or alternative country can be good, but what is considered "country music" by the vast majority of the public and what is promoted by Nashville has been universally terrible since 9/11. The culture surrounding it is even worse and the average country concert is more dangerous to attend than the average rap show. 

[Dan B.]

28 minutes ago, zero said:

Country music is bad. I understand there are plenty of "real" country artists who put out good music, indie or alternative country can be good, but what is considered "country music" by the vast majority of the public and what is promoted by Nashville has been universally terrible since 9/11. The culture surrounding it is even worse and the average country concert is more dangerous to attend than the average rap show. 

Oh, for sure.  I thought of putting this as one of mine but didn't know if it was really "controversial" enough.  I love the classic stuff; grew up listening to it, and there's certainly still good country music being produced - usually called "Americana" or "roots" or whatever - but the modern mainstream pop-country genre is terrible (personally I'd say at least since the '90s).  Sorry, but putting a steel guitar under bland, generic Creed-grade rock doesn't a good country song make.  I don't think Hank done it this way.

 

[zero]

Even the pop country of the 90s had standouts like Shania Twain, Clint Black, The Chicks, obviously Garth and even the dumb stuff was better then. But 9/11 is the hard line for when everything got wrapped up in faux patriotism and became a very standard assembly line that keeps getting worse. Unimaginative, unchallenging, weak ass bumper sticker slogans turned into what sounds like bad, overproduced 80s pop. 

There's this rising tide of even left leaning folks saying "country is good actually" and no. Just no. Pure garbage. 

[RPS]

3 hours ago, METALMAN said:

I wonder if the growth of streaming services has had a role in this consolidation. I don't have any data so this is little more than a hunch, but it seems to me that streaming platforms - and especially Spotify.- are very keen to drive people to a relatively small number of acts, even though pretty much all the recorded music is there languishing in the back of their website. I mean, if you want to avoid Taylor Swift at all costs you can easily shape your Spotify algorithm to do that, but for the casual consumer it's all about these playlists that are tightly controlled by the major record labels

100%. I think record labels are absolutely in bed with Spotify and they work together to keep you listening to music. A few years ago, at the Spotify year end list, it had Imagine Dragon was on my list. My son likes them. I played them a bit. But there was no way they were 5th most played.  That's when I started to notice how they gravitate you towards certain artists. I also think that Spotifies Smart Shuffle (a version of their randomize option) is some play to win model. I think record labels absolutely pay Spotify to get priority in those rankings. I also think that many AI related playlists prioritize record label music. I also think the record labels are cozy with Spotify about what updates are pushed to you. I'll absolutely be notified of a release from a major artist - if it's someone I really like but not on a major label I might get notified but probably not. 

 

[Dan B.]

1 hour ago, zero said:

Even the pop country of the 90s had standouts like Shania Twain, Clint Black, The Chicks, obviously Garth and even the dumb stuff was better then. But 9/11 is the hard line for when everything got wrapped up in faux patriotism and became a very standard assembly line that keeps getting worse. Unimaginative, unchallenging, weak ass bumper sticker slogans turned into what sounds like bad, overproduced 80s pop. 

There's this rising tide of even left leaning folks saying "country is good actually" and no. Just no. Pure garbage. 

Yeah, actually, I'll grant that; there was some solid stuff in the '90s - Garth and Shania did have some songs I like (I always saw Shania as more on the "pop" side of the country-pop spectrum anyway), and while I never specifically listened to a whole lot of (D.) Chicks stuff I do appreciate their more bluegrassy leanings.  In fact I almost said "'80s" instead of "'90s" but could already think of plenty of exceptions there too - for instance, Juice Newton's version of "Queen of Hearts" is not only about as perfect a pop-country song as you can get, but is also one of the more nostalgic songs of my childhood years as it was on the radio *constantly* back then, and I'm a fan of Dwight Yoakam, though he's really more of a honky-tonk artist who happened to chart a few pop hits.  I'm sure if I tried hard enough I could probably even find an exception or two from today - offhand, I do like what I've heard of Chris Stapleton, for instance, though he might fall more into "country that's popular" moreso than "pop-country."

But yeah.  The whole, as Chuck Klosterman called it, "Walmart Country" genre, and especially the meathead "bro-country" subset of that, I can definitely do without.

Incidentally this is probably the most I've talked about music on a message board since the late '90s-early 2000s AOL boards, so... fun thread!

Edited September 29, 2023 by Dan B.

[Warhawk8492]

Current music is just not as good as it used to be, maybe thats me getting older.

[Lint]

9 hours ago, Warhawk8492 said:

maybe thats me getting older.

To be fair, it probably is this. 

I've been finding it harder to get into newer music as I've gotten older.  A few exceptions, but mostly I listen to more 90s/2000s stuff

[Hobo]

14 hours ago, zero said:

Country music is bad. I understand there are plenty of "real" country artists who put out good music, indie or alternative country can be good, but what is considered "country music" by the vast majority of the public and what is promoted by Nashville has been universally terrible since 9/11. The culture surrounding it is even worse and the average country concert is more dangerous to attend than the average rap show. 

Paul F Tompkins pointed out on some podcast a while ago that country songs now are always listing things. And he's not wrong

[METALMAN]

ChatGPT write the lyrics for a stereotypical country song that involves listing things

(Verse 1)  
Hey y'all, listen up, got a tale to tell,  
'Bout Friday nights down in my hometown as well.  
Just hop in my truck, let's make some noise,  
Me, the boys, and a couple of good ol' country toys.  

(Chorus)  
We got boots, beers, and backroads,  
Cold cans and a bonfire's glow.  
Tailgates, lake days, can't let go,  
Living life in the fast lane, real slow.  

(Verse 2)  
Crank that country on the radio dial,  
Headin' to the river, it's just a short mile.  
Muddy boots, faded jeans, and the sun goin' down,  
In this little ol' heaven that we call a town.  

(Chorus)  
We got boots, beers, and backroads,  
Cold cans and a bonfire's glow.  
Tailgates, lake days, can't let go,  
Living life in the fast lane, real slow.  

(Bridge)  
She's got cut-offs and a sun-kissed tan,  
Rockin' to the beat of an old-school jam.  
With a fishing rod and her hand in mine,  
Yeah, we're catching more than fish this time.  

(Chorus)  
We got boots, beers, and backroads,  
Cold cans and a bonfire's glow.  
Tailgates, lake days, can't let go,  
Living life in the fast lane, real slow.  

 

[Colly]

These are the things in my jeep.

[The Kraig]

Melancholy Hill.

[GhostMachine]

23 hours ago, SPQR said:

Same here.

Presets in my last car (that weren't those of the legal owner) were Liquid Metal, Hair Nation, Siriusly Sinatra, and 50's Gold (only because my car couldn't tune into Faction)

Ours are Hair Nation, Classic Rewind, 80's on 8, Pop2k, Pop Rocks, Rockbar, and The 10's Spot. But I'm thinking of dropping Rockbar (rarely listen to it), and *maybe* adding Octane. No Country, because Heidi does all the driving and can't stand Country music, or I'd have Y2Kountry and Red White and Booze on there. She's also why Ozzy's Boneyard isn't on there. As for artist stations, they need a Def Leppard one. Heidi said that, and I'm a bigger Def Leppard fan than she is. (Her favorite band is ACDC) My stepson and future daughter-in-law occasionally use the car, so we have Tiktok Radio and Pandora Now on there for them. They're hip-hop fans, but don't like the Hip Hop Nation channel, for some reason. I do listen to Pandora Now from time to time.

 

22 hours ago, Hobo said:

I've never really used Spotify personally. I'm also kinda settled into just listening to the same musicians I've listened to for the last 15 years and I don't really buy many albums anymore. At most, I buy 1 album a year. So don't really know what hill I would die on.

I like Garth Brooks' In The Life of Chris Gaines more than I really like any of his other work. But it's not great. So I'm not willing to die on the hill.

I might be willing to die on the hill of "Billy Joel's best album is Glass Houses". Sleeping With The Television is probably one of his best lesser-known songs.

I'm a firm believer that Johnny Cash's cover of Hurt and the album it comes from are just OK. It's certainly got a really impactful music video The album before that American III: Solitary Man is much better. The song choices are overall much stronger and his voice hasn't deterorated quite as much from ill health.

 

The Chris Gaines album is very underrated. And he's apparently mulling over doing another one. Garth also does some damn good rock covers (Life In The Fast Lane, Hard Luck Woman - with KISS in full makeup backing him up when he did it on THE TONIGHT SHOW back in the day!), and the Sevens album is one of my favorite country albums. 

Strongly disagree about Billy Joel and Johnny Cash, though. Glass Houses is Joel's second best album, after An Innocent Man.

[C-MIL]

6 hours ago, Hobo said:

Paul F Tompkins pointed out on some podcast a while ago that country songs now are always listing things. And he's not wrong

Rural noun, simple adjective.

[Gabriel]

Michale Graves is a better singer than Glenn Danzig.

The original Misfits planted the seeds for the Horror Punk genre, and the scene has great reverence for them for sure... but I would even argue that the Graves-era Misfits are more influential on the genre, as they laid out the blueprint for what post-Danzig Horror Punk would sound like. Glenn's influence is still very heavy there, but the genre leans more towards the American Psycho/Famous Monsters albums than anything Danzig put out with the group.

I will fight anyone who says that Danzig is a technically better vocalist than Graves. It just isn't true. He's less of a piece of garbage, for sure, and he's the godfather, but it's not even close when it comes to legitimate singing talent.

Beyond that, though... Blitzkid is the quintessential Horror Punk band, and I don't think they get enough love for taking up the mantle in a JerryFits world.

[Hobo]

1 hour ago, GhostMachine said:

Strongly disagree about Billy Joel and Johnny Cash, though. Glass Houses is Joel's second best album, after An Innocent Man.

For me, 80s Billy Joel slowly devolves into getting far to into doing homages and gets progressively more corny..

As for Johnny Cash, for me Solitary Man was the best   "im about to die album" soon lads album Cash made.  He still had a bit of juice left in his voice and the songs overall suited him better. (Solitary Man, I Wont Back Down, the Mercy Seat, I See A Darkness)

There are some dirges on TMCA (Danny Boy, Bridge over Troubled Water and The First Time Ever I Saw Your Face). Big Iron and Witchta Lineman were both not on that album and they're far stronger.

[GhostMachine]

1 hour ago, Gabriel said:

Michale Graves is a better singer than Glenn Danzig.

The original Misfits planted the seeds for the Horror Punk genre, and the scene has great reverence for them for sure... but I would even argue that the Graves-era Misfits are more influential on the genre, as they laid out the blueprint for what post-Danzig Horror Punk would sound like. Glenn's influence is still very heavy there, but the genre leans more towards the American Psycho/Famous Monsters albums than anything Danzig put out with the group.

I will fight anyone who says that Danzig is a technically better vocalist than Graves. It just isn't true. He's less of a piece of garbage, for sure, and he's the godfather, but it's not even close when it comes to legitimate singing talent.

Beyond that, though... Blitzkid is the quintessential Horror Punk band, and I don't think they get enough love for taking up the mantle in a JerryFits world.

Scream!, Helena, and Dig Up Her Bones are my 3 of my top 5 favorite Misfits songs that aren't instrumentals or covers. And I prefer a couple of Halloween covers over their version. So I somewhat agree. Danzig is much better with his own band.

Any thoughts on Wednesday 13, and his various projects/bands? 

[Gabriel]

6 minutes ago, GhostMachine said:

Scream!, Helena, and Dig Up Her Bones are my 3 of my top 5 favorite Misfits songs that aren't instrumentals or covers. And I prefer a couple of Halloween covers over their version. So I somewhat agree. Danzig is much better with his own band.

Any thoughts on Wednesday 13, and his various projects/bands? 

I absolutely fucking adore Wednesday.

My first exposure to his stuff came with the Murderdolls, and I fell in love instantly. Tongue-in-cheek lyrics about horror movies and growing up as the weirdo always seem to make me happy. I dove into his older stuff pretty quickly afterwards, and found that I preferred the more punk-rock stylings of the Frankenstein Drag Queens, but the polish that he and Joey Jordison put on the older Drag Queens tracks was perfect. The Murderdolls versions of those songs are far superior to the originals. Maniac Spider Trash is fun, and you can hear the future Wednesday sound being tested and refined on those tracks.

His solo work has been fantastic as well, with me being able to say that there isn't a single release that I didn't immediately love. The early solo stuff harkens back to the more punk rock oriented roots, and he's got some really awesome and campy bangers and sing-alongs. More recent albums have veered more into the metal and electronic territory, with more of an emphasis on science fiction in the lyrics. Monsters of the Universe, which heavily focuses on aliens and seems very much inspired by They Live, may be my favorite W13 album, start to finish. It's also the album where he starts to go heavier again, but maintains a really good groove to a lot of the tracks. Heavy, but danceable.

Gunfire 76 was interesting as a straight forward rock and roll project, but didn't hit as well as Bourbon Crow, the outlaw country project he has. Crow is fantastic, marrying the horror themes with old school country and planting the tongue firmly in-cheek for a lot of the standout tracks.

[Skummy]

On Rockism and such, I think some of it has to do with the declining role of traditional tastemakers or what today we would call influencers; the music press is an irrelevance, there are few if any radio DJs with the combined platform, credibility or influence to make and break a new act, and, at least in the UK, there's no flagship music TV any more. And only nerds read Pitchfork.

A lot of people in positions of influence in the music press, and the more generally "alternative" voices in radio, all came up through either the '60s psych scene or through punk and hard rock - I'm thinking John Peel, Jann Wenner, Nick Kent, Steven Wells, Everett True, through to professional rememberer Stuart Maconie. A lot of them were either hangers-on in their respective music scene, or looked up to writers like Lester Bangs. 

Most of them came up accepting or propagating one of two essential "truths" about music - that Bob Dylan was the single most important writer and cultural force of his generation, or that punk rock was a necessary rejection of the excesses of prog rock and was the creative wellspring from whence everything else flowed. The people who believed one, or both, of these things - and I'll add a third, particularly in the UK, of overrating the cultural influence of David Bowie (as Alan Bennett said of the tone of Bowie's obituaries, if he'd been as influential and earth-shattering as they made him sound, we'd never have had a Conservative government again in this country) - basically ran the music press, most of the smaller record labels, and anywhere else you'd turn for guidance in what the hot new thing was. 

You only need to look to the controversy around Jann Wenner's recent book about the "Masters" of pop music which features no black or female artists, because he claims they're "not in his zeitgeist" and not "articulate enough on this intellectual level". These are the tastemakers that governed popular music for the better part of the second half of the twentieth century and the early twenty-first. That have created a chronology of popular music that argues that groups of white blokes with guitars in the late '70s were somehow more creative or inventive than the genuine experimentation happening in disco, dance and electronic music at the same time, all of which was disregarded as meaningless trash. That can disregard the contributions of huge swathes of the music industry, and who for the most part remained very narrowly focused on the music of their youth and a smattering of bands that stemmed from it.

 

As much as I have a real admiration for some of the better writers I mentioned, and that one of the things I dislike about modern music and culture in general is that I prefer an element of curation to the free-for-all that comes of having everything at your fingertips (buried deep in this post, that's probably my hill to die on), it's generally a good thing that they no longer have as much of a stranglehold on what is or isn't "cool" in music. I think the pivot to writing very seriously and earnestly about pop music and celebrating the likes of Taylor Swift and Beyoncé in the terms once reserved for someone like Dylan is a necessary course-correction that's gone too far, but mostly driven by economic concerns - people writing about music need to keep themselves in a job and, paradoxically, the easier it's become to access a wider array of music, the less money there is to be made in shining a spotlight on the "alternative" stuff, so all that's left is to write about the multi-million selling pop stars who don't need the additional coverage as if they were boundary-breaking revolutionary artists. 

[ChrisSteeleAteMyHamster]

Surfer Rosa, not Doolittle, is the best Pixies album.

Oh and unironically "Enema of the State" by Blink 182 should go down as one of the "best" albums ever written. Of course it won't, but it should.