The Comic Book Thread (spoilers)

[Skummy]

True, but if you're doing a "back to the beginning" reboot, it's a reboot, not a Pick 'N' Mix of the best bits.

[Maxx]

It never sounded like it was a back to the beginning reboot anyways, since it was announced it seemed like stupid way to just start fresh with some tweaked stories. DC is fucking awful at shit like this. If they wanted a reboot with a fresh continuity to get new readers, they should have ripped off The Ultimate Universe blueprint, instead of negating everything they've done for the past 6 years. Or maybe just half of what they've done, no one can really tell.

[GoGo Yubari]

True, but if you're doing a "back to the beginning" reboot, it's a reboot, not a Pick 'N' Mix of the best bits.

But it's not a back to the beginning reboot. It's not like "oh hey, suddenly we're back to 1991" outright. Jason Rusch is still going to be one-half of Firestorm, for example. It's just "hey, let's create a new continuity because I guess we've fucked up on simplifying the DC Universe like we claimed we were going to a million times." It's just that their decisions (just like Marvel's) are skewing heavily to "hey, let's make comic books like they were when we were kids." Damien's safe I guess to be an exception and because he was Grant Morrison's pet project. Which is fine with me, because I ended up liking him okay and would rather see Tim Drake doing his own thing.

[Skummy]

Ah, so it's even more of a pointless clusterfuck than I thought. A complete reset would make sense - continuity gets confusing, it's difficult for a new reader to jump in anywhere, and so on and so forth, but how does a partial reset fix that? It just clears out bits the writers don't like, but keeps the changes they do? Surely that's just gonna fuck with continuity more? Surely we won't know which characters we're "supposed" to already "know" and which we're being "introduced" to, or whatever? Oh, I don't know. Comics be crazy.

[Nick Adams]

My thoughts on the "RESET BUTTON OF DOOM", as I call it.

I swear to God, if they pull Batman Inc and Red Robin, they had damn well better replace them with something else for subscribers, or I am gonna' be PISSED. SO. FREAKING. PISSED.

More to the point, most of the DCU could do with a reboot - the Lanterns, Superman, et cetera - but Batman had what amounted to a reboot only two years ago when they gave Grayson the suit. More than that, Stephanie Brown is a great Batgirl, and now we're losing her from... everything, it would appear. Out of all the DC fans, Green Lantern fans and Batman fans are getting the biggest middle fingers, what with a whole run of comics (two, actually - Brightest Day and Generation Lost) focusing on a White Lantern, a war of Green Lanterns, et cetera establishing some interesting directions for the human characters, and a bunch of other stuff suddenly not mattering, plus everything that happened post-Bruce-getting-blasted-in-to-the-past in the Batman series is suddenly kaput.

What bothers me is that they're not doing what somebody else suggested, and instead of relaunching anything, just launching a number of comics based around one of the other 51 universes.

[TGC]

Dick's new Nightwing series was announced. He gets a new costume too.

Batman, Inc is taking a hiatus after issue 10 and coming back in 2012 with what Morrison called the end of his 6 year run on Batman. In the meantime he said he is hard at work on a big new not yet announced series for DC. Oracle is no more, apparently, the wherabouts of Tim and Stephanie is unknown, but Batwoman finally starts with a new number one. The rest of the Batline seems unchanged with Damian still in Batman And Robin, Bruce in the suit, and a new Batwing book announced with the "first ever African Batman" coming (a direct result of Batman, Inc. showing that the changes there remain), and the write-up for Nightwing's book acknowledging that Dick spent the last few years as Batman.

Aside from some creator swapping, it has been firmly established that the GL line is being left largely untouched. I think the only "changes" are a Multi Colored Lantern book led by Kyle Raynor and a Red Lanterns team book, both of which were pretty much already announced a few months ago.

For those that liked Vertigo's "super hero dark books", DC is giving us Vertigo Lite, featuring Swamp Thing, Justice League: Dark (starring a team consisting of John Constantine, Zatanna, Deadman, and Shade The Changing Man), a new Animal Man Book, I Vampire, and a few others.

For me, a lot of my favorite characters are still around in books, Captain Atom, Booster Gold, The JLI, Firestorm, Birds Of Prey, but sadly it looks like they are all the ones getting a complete reboot.

If it were me, I would have preferred a softer reboot. Half the line stays the same, the other half gets this complete rehaul. Hell, in a few years time they could have even had another big event where they merge the two and create yet another all new DC Earth! The Final We Really Mean It This Time FINAL Crisis On Multiple Earths Identity Crisis Crisis!( )

[TGC]

Here's a handy little reference chart that Bleeding Cool put together for the relaunch. Color coded according to whether it's a rumor or fact and so on.

[Maxx]

Alright, Justice League Dark sounds pretty interesting. Like Shadowpact featuring more well known characters.

[Johnny Latino Heat]

This is a great webcomic regarding the whole Oracle thing.

To me, this reboot is looking not like a step forward, but about ten steps back, and it seems that DC has a knack for this. To me, it all started with Barry Allen's return.

Barry Allen had THE hero's death. He died overcoming his every limit and saving not one person, not a city, country, planet, whatever, but saving the whole of creation. Best death a hero could ever have, from where I'm standing. Then, the mantle goes to his sidekick who, during years, struggles to live up to the ideals set by Barry, eventually not only living up to them, but also surpassing Barry in every way (it was stated as much in several comics, IIRC). Wally West grew from an insecure kid who was put in a position he didn't want to be in into the best Flash ever, both as a hero and as a character, and surpassing Barry. Even in the very comic dedicated to Barry's return, it was shown as much, when Barry was chasing Zoom, couldn't keep up, was faltering, and Wally just showed up out of nowhere, not only keeping up with Barry, but without effort. Now, he's been relegated to basically showing up when a Flash is needed to look like an idiot (one only has to look at Magog #11 to see a prime example). You could argue that Wally has a family and has basically retired from the superheroics scene. I argue that they gave him a family exactly for that reason. Even if it was not the reason, before Barry's return, he was teaching his kids to be superheroes. To me, that's far more interesting than watching charismatic-as-drying-paint Barry Allen.

The same thing happens with Kyle Rayner, to a minor extent. At least he's still around and featured prominently in the GL Corps book, but he went from being THE Green Lantern to being just another guy with a ring. While the GL books have been very good since Hal Jordan's return IMO, I don't believe it was necessary for Hal to return. His downfall was epic and well done, I mean, the city he had lived his whole life in, Coast City, was wiped out of the map. Millions of people died with "his" city and he went off the deep end. He redeemed himself by sacrificing himself and saving Earth and was doing the whole Spectre schtick to keep his redemption going. I had no problem whatsoever in seeing his soul pass on or something like that. Instead, he got ressurrected and the whole "oh, he went insane, destroyed the whole Corps and tried to destroy the universe to create his own" thing was because he had a parasite in him. And with that, the whole GL story was pushed back several years. Hal Jordan was back, Guy Gardner wasn't an alien hybrid anymore and was back to being a GL (even though he had been kicked out in the first place), and Sinestro was back too.

Sorry for the rant, but DC just pisses me off with their backwards logic. It's the same with Spider-Man's "non-existing marriage". I'm half-expecting to see covers for Superman books worthy of Superdickery material by the rate things are going.

[Boulder]

Anyone read The Boys? I love Ennis' work on Punisher MAX and Preacher, but I've heard mixed things about The Boys.

The Boys is great. I feel like it's better-structured than Preacher, and probably the most in-depth "world" that Ennis has created (it actually reminds me of Watchmen a bit in that sense). Also, the recent arcs have gotten deadly serious, even a bit frightening, and the quality's been every bit as high.

As for the DC reboot, I'm largely against it, and I feel like I'll be picking up fewer DC books in September than I am now. Although rumor has it Grant Morrison is writing Action Comics, and that would be fantastic. I guess we'll find out about that tomorrow. I do think people are jumping the gun on Batgirl- I wouldn't be surprised if she's kept disabled but the suit lets her move, or something M.A.N.T.I.S.-like. I trust Gail Simone to handle it properly.

[Johnny Latino Heat]

Teen Titans #1 cover:

What in the hell is Superboy wearing? Why does (someone I'm assuming is) Tim have wings? Or is that a wing-shaped cape? I recognize Kid Flash and Wonder Girl, but who the hell are the other two supposed to be?

Just... ugh. I don't like these new looks one bit.

Oh yeah, Hawk & Dove #1 cover as well:

I don't actually have anything to say about this one because I don't really care about Hawk & Dove (except for, why is everyone so accepting of Hawk? They do remember he was Monarch and then Extant, right? And that he slaughtered the JSA? Why has he come back as Hawk when he was ressurrected?). Wait, I do have something else to say about Hawk & Dove. "lol, Liefeld."

Edited June 9, 2011 by Johnny Latino Heat

[GoGo Yubari]

... wow, DC. Just... Jesus Christ. Wow. One cover looks like the '90s threw up on it, and the other was done by Rob Liefeld.

[Skummy]

Aren't those two the same thing?

[GoGo Yubari]

It was an attempt at a "I'm obviously referring to Rob Liefeld here... oh wait no I'm not, I'm referring to the other thing which looks equally ridiculous" joke, yeah. I mean, not that it really matters; I haven't cared about Teen Titans as a franchise for at least four years now, probably five.

[TGC]

Thats not the actual Teen Titans cover but the real one is no better.

[Maxx]

Prove it!

[Johnny Latino Heat]

Prove it!

He's right, actually. The site I got that first image from said it was the cover, but I've seen reported on another site that it's not, it's just a promotional picture. Therefore, I present to you the actual cover.

And he's right when he says the real one is no better. Just adds another character I don't recognize.

[TGC]

Sorry guys it is official. From Gail Simone:

"On behalf of everyone who worked on this book, I want to thank those readers. In this market, there is no way that a book starring CATMAN, of all people, should even exist, let alone be the favorite read of so many pros, readers, and critics. More comics pros and staffers from all companies told me it was their favorite DC book than anything else I have ever worked on. I think the message was that there was room for outsider comics even during a time when the focus is so intent on the icon characters.

Thank you.

I am not mad at DC in any way. They not only took a chance on a book and character set that sounded absolutely ridiculous in the outline form, but they stood by with very little interference even when it was most clear that we weren't going to be doing many of the things that would have followed the usual superteam recipe.

DC has been lovely all the way with this book. They allowed content that frankly surprised me again and again and offered little but encouragement and support the entire time. Believe me, when you go up to a major publisher and say you want your team book to be headed up by Catman, it takes a leap of faith to say, 'Okay, run with it.' But they did.

They never blinked at the lgbtq content. They never asked us to tone anything down. For a book that had lots of filth, sex, violence, perversion, and talking sharks, they never asked us to pull it back a little. The let us push the envelope, right off the cliff and down into the ravine. And mostly, they let an oddly personal book out onto the unsuspecting public.

And that is one of the big reasons DC has my loyalty."

[GhostMachine]

That Liefeld pic/cover/whatever of Hawk & Dove actually doesn't look too bad. Considering its Liefeld, that is.

But the Teen Titans one? Ugh. Tim's costume doesn't look too bad (and I think those are wings, not a wing-shaped cape), but the others totally suck. And Connor with a Superman S shield tattoo? Laaaaame.

Edited June 10, 2011 by GhostMachine

[Johnny Latino Heat]

That Liefeld pic/cover/whatever of Hawk & Dove actually doesn't look too bad. Considering its Liefeld, that is.

But the Teen Titans one? Ugh. Tim's costume doesn't look too bad (and I think those are wings, not a wing-shaped cape), but the others totally suck. And Connor with a Superman S shield tattoo? Laaaaame.

I don't know what's worse, the tatoo or the S Shield's "Kick Me" sign he has on his back