Doctor Who

[Skummy]

39 minutes ago, Naitch said:

 

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A plot hole regarding this in the latest episode is that Missy immediately knew who the "Monks" were when the Doctor and Bill went to her for help.

 

I don't think that's a plot hole....

I thought it was the weakest part of a three-parter that I actually rather liked. I like the concept of the Monks, and - aside from the Moffat continuity-hopping - how they were introduced was a great sci-fi mystery, made to feel important with all the stuff at the Vatican.

My biggest criticism, though, was that the whole swerve of the Doctor potentially working with the Monks was a complete waste of time, blatantly only there to give them some "shocking" material for the trailer, that's immediately irrelevant to the actual narrative. My other is that the gave the Monks a cool "power" - the sort of psychological base fears bad guy power that Moffat is good at, akin to the Weeping Angels and the Silence - that didn't really play into the story nearly enough. More could have been done with the Monks' control over them getting stronger as they got nearer the transmitter. I'll withhold judgement on this one because I'm not sure we've seen the last of them. I liked the idea of Bill being able to overpower the Monks' transmitter thanks to her memories of her Mum - their whole power over humanity is based on them having studied all of human history, so something imagined, something that never happened in that history makes sense in a very Doctor Who-y way as to how to stop them, but the Doctor's speech massively overdid the "power of love" angle on that.

I'm thinking that the Monks have to come back. If they don't, that's a massive waste of something that felt like a series Big Bad, and of a villain with way more potential than they've shown. I'm half-expecting a cop-out in the season finale where we think a character's died or something equally tragic, but it turns out that entire scene occurred in one of the Monks' simulations. It's such an easy narrative get-out clause that I can't imagine Moffat just doing away with it.

Beyond that...the ultimate villain of the piece has to be the Master, surely? I've been assuming that Missy was behind the Monks, or facilitating them in some way, and that obviously her talk of wanting to turn good is a hoax - she's more manipulative than the Doctor, and the Doctor is more trusting than her, so of course he'd fall for it. But just now, remembering that we still have John Simm to come, I wonder if Missy actually wants to/already has turned over a new leaf, and will get a heroic moment sacrificing herself to save the Doctor, only to regenerate as the most evil, manipulative form The Master has ever known. I'm curious how they go about justifying her regenerating into an older form, though I suppose the Curator already established that it's possible for a Time Lord to return to an "old face".

[DFF]

Question regarding Missy:

Since her incarnation of the character has been around, have they made any reference to the John Simm incarnation at all? I'm just wondering whether we might get the swerve that Simm is an incarnation after her?

[Skummy]

3 minutes ago, DFF said:

Question regarding Missy:

Since her incarnation of the character has been around, have they made any reference to the John Simm incarnation at all? I'm just wondering whether we might get the swerve that Simm is an incarnation after her?

That's a fair point - I can't think of anything that's come up. You'd have to ask what narrative benefit him being a later regeneration would actually serve ,though...

[DFF]

1 minute ago, Skummy said:

That's a fair point - I can't think of anything that's come up. You'd have to ask what narrative benefit him being a later regeneration would actually serve ,though...

... because Moffat likes non-chronological twists?

[stokeriño]

That would require Missy to be a pre-Time War version of The Master, presumably? Not that it matters...

[Skummy]

29 minutes ago, DFF said:

... because Moffat likes non-chronological twists?

Ha, true. I just can't come up with any way for it to make the slightest difference to the plot moving forward, but that's never stopped him before.

26 minutes ago, stokeriño said:

That would require Missy to be a pre-Time War version of The Master, presumably? Not that it matters...

Presumably, yes - either pre or mid-Time War, as it was during the Time War that the Master made himself human as the pre-Simm incarnation.

[DFF]

34 minutes ago, Skummy said:

Ha, true. I just can't come up with any way for it to make the slightest difference to the plot moving forward, but that's never stopped him before.

Presumably, yes - either pre or mid-Time War, as it was during the Time War that the Master made himself human as the pre-Simm incarnation.

I mean, the only reason I can think would be if Chris Chibnall has convinced Simm to return and they decided to do it this way?

[Naitch]

1 hour ago, DFF said:

Question regarding Missy:

Since her incarnation of the character has been around, have they made any reference to the John Simm incarnation at all? I'm just wondering whether we might get the swerve that Simm is an incarnation after her?

The bit that always got me was how Simm's incarnation was theoretically locked in the Time War after finding out the Rassilon was responsible for his lifelong insanity. As far as I'm aware there also hasn't been any acknowledgement of any previous interactions which would indicate a similar level of chronological progression shared by the two characters. It would totally make sense for the fact that both of them can travel through time, meaning any incarnation could bump into another at any point in the other's timeline, would be used on TV at some point. It might be a little too complicated for a casual audience though.

The Master has only been seen regenerating once (Jacobi to Simm), and clearly knows how to steal other peoples' bodies, which means they have a lot of backstory to play around with if they so choose.

[Skummy]

Also, I've seen it referred to as the first "Multiple Masters" story. It's not necessarily the case that Missy will regenerate to Simm, or vice-versa. They may co-exist.

[GhostMachine]

I read an article someone posted on Facebook claiming that if you freeze-frame one of the scenes in Day of the Doctor, it shows a female hand coming out of the Gallifrey Falls No More picture frame (at least I believe it was that picture. The article was posted shortly after Missy was outed as the Master on the show), and that's supposedly how Missy escaped the planet. The Simm version of the Master did get imprisoned along with Rassilon and the other Time Lords, so maybe he regenerated into Missy at some point, but was stuck there, regenerated into Missy, and escaped through the painting somehow?

 

 

 

Edited June 5, 2017 by GhostMachine

[ChrisSteeleAteMyHamster]

I'm less excited about next week's episode. Although I love the old British soldiers, not a fan of the Ice Warriors or the effects of that weapon they fired.

[TheWho87]

I'm sorry but...

Spoiler

Alpha "Fucking" Centauri!!!

 

Edited June 10, 2017 by TheWho87

[MDK]

On 2017-4-21 at 09:47, Colly said:

I choose Jamie Bell and Andy Serkis from that film where he has a wank in a trench. And they should recreate that as his first historical jaunt.

Deathwatch

[TheWho87]

 

[stokeriño]

I'm not sure this universe could handle Brian Blessed as The Doctor.

[TheWho87]

He would be the last great actor to play the Doctor since nobody could match him.

On a related note this was the casting list for the Doctor in the 1996 movie.

[Skummy]

Jeff Goldblum.

Capaldi being on there is surprising, but excellent - odd that they have Anthony Head down as unsuitable, I think he'd be perfect, though I suppose they wanted a specific "type" for the movie.

[The Lusophone]

Hugh Laurie would've been a great choice.

[Your Mom]

I kinda want to watch that movie again. I know I watched it when it was on originally but I couldn't have been any more than 11 or 12 and had no idea what Doctor Who was so I thought it was terrible. I might appreciate it a little more now

[Naitch]

When I scrolled through the names my brain may have inadvertently merged Brendan Coyle and Hugh Fraser together.