***spoilers*** UFC News and Discussion Thread

[Liam]

That could be awesome, or horrendous.

Still, I'm looking forward to it.

[SRN]

UFC 146 is going to be awesome. Hunt/Struve is going to be hilarious as will Bigfoot/Nelson, while Mir will hopefully get Cain Train'd.

[NobBe Nobbs]

WAR HUNT.

WAR FUCKING HUNT.

I say this as a guy who likes Struve, if you're not rooting for MARK FUCKING HUNT, Mr. 'Got to the UFC despite being on a five-fight losing streak but just beat the piss out of Cheick Kongo', I don't want to know you.

---

Unrelated. 'Cause I'm doing an MMA diary, I've tried to write a short guide to some of the terms I use so people who aren't versed in MMA lingo can get a better idea of what I'm trying to say. I'm not going for technical perfection, just a simple primer. How is this looking?

FULL GUARD

The full guard is almost the default position for fighting on the ground, it's where most ground encounters start. The fighter on the top is in the dominant position, as is the case with most ground fighting, while the fighter on the bottom tries to keep his legs hooked behind the back of the fighter on the top, to restrict his movement and make it more difficult for the fighter on the top to get to a better position. The important thing to note that differentiates this from other positions is the position of the fighters' legs. In full guard, the fighter on the bottom has his legs outside the fighter on the top's - see this picture if it's not immediately clear. It's not a bad position for either man, but it's not great and most fighters will try to improve it wherever possible. I sometimes refer to it as "open" and "closed" guard - both positions are full guard positions, the legs are in the same place, with the difference being where the top fighter's upper body is - in closed guard, the bottom fighter keeps his hands on the back or the head of the top fighter and pulls him down, thus restricting the amount of movement or damage the top fighter can do if he chooses to ground and pound, whereas in open guard the top fighter is able to keep his upper body away from the bottom fighter, which gives him more room to manoeuvre and the potential to do more damage with strikes, but also gives the bottom fighter more ability to reverse or force him away.

HALF GUARD

Next on the list is the half guard, typically where a good ground fighter will move to after passing the full guard. It's very similar to the full guard, with one variation - the fighter on the bottom has one of the top fighter's legs entangled in both of his, like this position. That is a situation where the top fighter has passed the bottom fighter's guard and moved to the left, with his upper body turning right. If you imagine the bottom fighter is lying flat and his head is pointing to the '12' of an imaginary clock, in half guard the top fighter's head will be pointed towards the '1' (if he got his left leg out) or the '11' (if he got his right leg out). This is a better position for the top fighter, and there have been a few guys who work very well fighting from the half guard position - Randy Couture, for example, would move to half guard and then execute his ground and pound from there. That said, it is still not a terrible position for the bottom fighter to be in as it is possible to execute some submission holds from the bottom - if you remember Daniel Puder, you probably remember him because he famously got Kurt Angle in a keylock back when he was on Tough Enough in 2004, and if you watch the video at the point he really gets the hold in, (0:52/0:53) he's in the half guard bottom position. Puder's on his back (more or less) with Angle on top of him, Puder has Angle's left leg caught between both of his and Angle is facing the '11 o'clock' position if Puder is at 12 o'clock.

SIDE CONTROL

Continuing around in a circle, we get side control, also known interchangably as side mount. Side control comes about when a fighter, normally in half guard, gets both his legs away from his opponent's and turns his upper body even more. Using the clock image again, if the bottom fighter is at twelve o'clock and a fighter on the top in half guard is at one o'clock, a fighter on the top in side control is between two and three o'clock. Being in this position opens up more options for the top fighter - as well as punches, he can bring his elbows to better use and attack the body with his knees. In some MMA promotions - PRIDE was famous for it - knees to the head of an opponent were common from the side control position. In http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lxafCrBvq0, 1:35 - 1:38 is a good example of side control so you can see what I mean. It's a great position for submission fighters to be in, as it gives them a huge amount of offensive potential. The kimura is a common armlock people use from that position as it's well suited, but you've also got things like the americana, a simple armbar, occasionally more exotic stuff like the omoplata or gogoplata. I'll define those later, don't worry.

NORTH-SOUTH

Continuing further round the circle brings you to north-south...or '69' if you're a child. In north-south, the fighter on the top simply continues around until he's at the 6 o'clock position and smothers the opponent's upper body with his upper body. It's generally less common to see the north-south position than others because it isn't quite as offensively useful, but it's still absolutely a dominant position to be in. This is a good visual example of the north-south position.

FULL MOUNT

And now to the daddy of them all. The full mount position is generally accepted as being the dominant position in ground fighting because if you get to the full mount, you have the freedom to impose your will on your opponent and there's very little they can do about it. Theoretically, it's possible to go from full guard straight to the mount, but you'd have to be fighting a truly incompetent opponent to manage that. The mount sees the top fighter sitting on the opponent's torso, abdomen or thighs, with the top fighter's legs outside the bottom fighter's - see here for another visual example. Immediately, you should be able to see why this is such a desired position - you can throw punches, elbows and hammerfists with abandon at the opponent's face and because groin strikes are illegal in MMA, they're going to have trouble retaliating. You've also got room to go for a kimura or an americana or, if you're feeling adventurous, something more difficult like a triangle choke or a gogoplata. There are ways to escape - a common one involves sweeping the opponent, turning you both over and ending with the bottom fighter now on the top in the open guard position - but you also see a lot of people give up their back instead, going into the back mount.

BACK MOUNT

There are two flavours of back mount - either the bottom fighter is face down in the mat or sitting up. Some people argue that back mount is superior to full because it is even more difficult for the bottom fighter to attack the top fighter from the back mount position, particularly if the top fighter has a) chest-to-back contact and/or b) hooked his legs around the bottom fighter's torso or abdomen. The obvious attack from here is a rear naked choke, but if you can avoid hitting the back of the opponent's head - a no-no in ground fighting - ground and pound is still possible. A variation can be seen here, where the top fighter (in red) is attempting to set up a rear naked choke and has the hooks in, applying a figure-four with his legs to give them extra strength and make it even more difficult for the opponent to break free.

OTHER POSITIONS

I'll add details of other positions if they come up, but among others you see are the sprawl, the rubber guard, the crucifix (an interesting one because technically, it's the top fighter who's in trouble from there) and the Salaverry, named for Ivan Salaverry who originally invented it.

[Guest mr. potato head]

The latest of Meltzer's historic MMA analysis, this one coming from January 1995:

The momentum UFC takes into 1995 makes its growth one of the biggest, if not the biggest, story to watch as it involves this industry.

Within wrestling I've gathered there are different schools of thought in regard to UFC. One school of thought are those who believe the current lows in TV ratings and attendance can be traced to the lack of seriousness, intensity and believability of the product, believe as UFC gets more popular, pro wrestling will suffer because the style looks more serious and it will expose what "real" fighting looks like to the public. In addition, it is something new at a time pro wrestling seems to be in a desperate search for something new but only succeeding in poor attempts to recreate the past.

Another school of thought is that UFC is a fad that will either quickly die out due to a lack of sustained interest or through governmental regulations banning the events. Yet a third school of thought is the totally oblivious school pretending it isn't there, although considering Titan's actions in taking one of its new characters as a direct rip-off, and WCW's in at one point attempting to get one of its wrestlers entered in UFC, shows neither group is really ignorant of what is going on here. And since they also know the buy rates, they have to be concerned.

One of the advantages of following wrestling worldwide, and in particular, wrestling in Japan, is that in most, but not all cases, if you follow Japan, you see what the trends are and problems that will face wrestling in the United States five to ten years earlier than it hits the United States. This is a perfect case in point.

Although there are several differences, some of which are major, a lot of this situation is similar to 1988-89 Japan and the incredible success of the old UWF. For those who weren't following the scene at that time, in 1987, Akira Maeda, who was one of the top stars with New Japan, was suspended for taking a cheapshot in a match, and rather than take the punishment, got backers and pulled several of his proteges and friends from New Japan and reformed the second UWF, a more realistic looking but still with predetermined finishes form of pro wrestling. The original UWF (1984-85) had a cult following in Tokyo with a stronger stiffer style of work although because the public wasn't quite ready for what they were doing and a lack of television to sell the public on it, the group couldn't draw well outside Tokyo and a lot of fans really didn't understand what they were seeing because it looked so different from the pro wrestling they were used to. After the first UWF folded, Maeda and several others (including today's hot draw Nobuhiko Takada) joined New Japan and with their style being exposed on network prime time television each week, the casual audience started understanding that their kneelocks, armbars, chicken wings, achilles tendon holds, half crabs and short arm scissors were finishing submission maneuvers. By just being there and being top stars within New Japan, it also put these so-called realistic maneuverings into the style of the New Japan wrestlers and has since become part of Japanese style across all promotions since all the younger wrestlers of today grew up watching it on television in 1986-87.

When Maeda formed the second UWF in 1988, this time the public was on the same page and ready. UWF was the hottest promotion in the world for a few years, climaxing by selling out a Tokyo Dome show (60,000 tickets sold in three days) in record time for a show on November 29, 1989. Eventually the organization disintegrated due to major front office problems, and splintered into different groups that have today evolved into Maeda's Rings, which still draws well but has totally lost its fire, Takada's UWFI, which is the most popular right now, and Pancrase, which is actually the most realistic looking and seems to have a significant cult following since it drew more than 11,000 fans two consecutive nights at Tokyo Sumo Hall three weeks ago.

Of the three successors to the original UWF, Pancrase, which is the most extreme when it comes to a realistic looking style, is the closest to UFC and there have been a number of athletes cross-over from one to the other, most notable of which is Shamrock.

If wrestling people have reason to be concerned about UFC, and they should at least be concerned, martial arts businessmen need to be positively scared to death. UFC exposes what is done in pro wrestling as a work. Big deal. Everyone knew that to begin with. But it also exposes karate and tae kwon do in street fighting situations. This exposes exactly what their businesses are being built around to not be the case. Because of that, within the martial arts world, there are numerous people who hate the Gracies for purely business reasons and some for personal reasons as well. They would love to be able to say UFC's, which are the very public affirmation of the Gracie style being superior to better known and more lucrative martial arts businesses, have predetermined endings and that Royce Gracie's victories are frauds.

In a sense, that's a gigantic difference between UFC and a UWF derivative in Japan. But from a wrestling fan and business perspective, it isn't as big a difference since it appears most fans in Japan believe in Pancrase and the lures of a UWFI or a Pancrase at least enough to believe in the drama of the deadly submission holds and UFC is identical in regard to both its drawing mystique and its effect on what we'd call traditional pro wrestling.

When UWF got hot, and even in the 1984-85 period when it only had a cult following, there were many in the traditional pro wrestling world who thought it was the worst thing to happen to pro wrestling. UWF wrestlers openly said what they did was real and that pro wrestling was fake, and they were all ex- (and as it turned out future) pro wrestling stars. And while that in many ways made them the biggest hypocrites of all, the fact is, traditional pro wrestling in Japan is still more than alive and well. And UWF style pro wrestling is also both more than alive and well. Both styles co-exist, sometimes peacefully, sometimes not. In fact, by introducing more realism and submissions and getting the style over to the public, it allowed All Japan and New Japan to do more realistic looking matches that fans would pop for because they were more educated. In a sense, instead of exposing or hampering pro wrestling, they enhanced it and paved the way for the current boom in attendance which is directly due to a more serious and more athletic-like ring style and finishes.

Switch six years later to the United States. There are very key differences. UFC has no television, let alone weekly network prime time like Maeda was on with New Japan to get new submission moves over. There are no famous wrestlers, and certainly no Maeda's, that had name recognition going in to pro wrestling fans, as the top drawing card for UFC. With predetermined endings, Maeda could book himself as the ultimate fighter which was great since he had name recognition and great popularity going in, was a good athlete, and was Japanese. Royce Gracie had no real name recognition outside some small circles of martial arts one year ago, and most importantly in a country that is still more drawn to size, power and nationalism, Gracie, no matter who he beats and how often, will never be huge, will never look imposing and will never be accepted as an American. UWF never was a shoot, except perhaps in occasional undercard matches. American pro wrestling was much farther from realism than Japanese style to begin with so adapting more realistic moves that get over in another form to enhance the style will look even more foreign. Most importantly, pro wrestling isn't as popular right now to begin with, although in 1988, the period when UWF changed the Japanese scene, pro wrestling was considered in a lull when it came to popularity. The reason UFC caught on in the United States while UWFI didn't in the United States is not the real vs. fake issue, but somewhat better marketing and more because when Americans think of a fight, they think of the punch and martial arts, largely because of movies and the popularity of boxing. So even though UFC's have downplayed punches to not be as important as wrestling and submissions, by seeing the punches and having bare-knuckle punches and martial arts kicks legal, that is the primary violent draw. The Japanese on the other hand, don't think of a punch. They think of wrestling, martial arts and submission moves, because of pro wrestling's popularity for years on television and martial arts movies. UWFI, which doesn't include punches to the head, is tailored to the Japanese mentality. The punch to the head is still the most over move in a UFC to fans. The open hand blows to the head hurt the excitement to an American fan at home who has seen boxing his entire life, whereas to someone in Japan, that's not a factor.

So that's the difference between Japan 1988 and United States 1995. The similarities are more obvious. Pro wrestling at a lull. The important matches have unrealistic and predictable screw-job finishes. A new group, that if not real, certainly looks real enough or more real than anything seen before, gains exposure and catches fire. UFC hasn't caught fire like UWF did seven years ago, but it was starting from absolute zero whereas UWF started with built-in popularity based on the names of Maeda, Takada, Fujiwara and others. But on PPV it already rivals the two major groups and has more momentum than either. UFC could also burn out as a fad, be banned by this time next year, or lose its edge because of the expected plethora of worked imitators that will surely spring up based on its success.

There is also both AAA and ECW to consider as far as shaping the future of wrestling. Both are limited in potential for obvious reasons but that isn't saying they couldn't either or both be successful. The key is exposure and worrying about strengths and weaknesses of the products as arguments really means nothing until the groups first get the necessary exposure to allow them to compete on a major scale. Japan already has its own group with an AAA type modern-day Lucha Libre combined with Japanese style, Michinoku Pro, that has a cult following promoting in small towns in rural Northeastern Japan. It has made enough of an impact this past year that its top wrestler was named Wrestler of the year by Weekly Pro last week. Most of the signs are that the group may be artistically successful, it is not financially successful, although it is far more successful than its U.S. regional counterpart SMW. It has several ECW's, the two most prominent being FMW, which is exceedingly successful, and IWA which shows signs of some popularity. Although AAA has far more potential as has already been shown as an ethnic draw with eventual crossover, it doesn't appear to have the organization either here or in Mexico that is going to make it happen. It came off a PPV with great momentum and has largely squandered it. ECW's future depends on first getting exposure strong enough to run PPV off it, then being successful on PPV. Without those two steps, they may gain a lot of notoriety among some fans, but they really won't be a factor as major players in 1995.

End result of history. Traditional pro wrestling five years after the UWF exploded was more successful than ever before in Japan. UWF style was also successful. But it wasn't that simple as just ignoring the new fad, doing your the same thing you've always done, being patient, and prospering.

In fact, All Japan and New Japan, the big two, made their own product more realistic. All Japan, the most conservative company in the world, reacted strongly to the change in the business. They dropped blading completely and eliminated all screw-job finishes. They focused more of the work on submissions and very stiff work, while maintaining some of the high-flying spots. The elimination of the screw-jobs is probably the biggest change from the traditional DQ and double count out finishes in the top matches of years past, and the one that should be most credited to the increase in attendance, although they also gained a reputation as having the best main event matches in the world which didn't hurt as far as drawing fans to the arenas. What UWF, in giving people either knockouts or submission finishes every time out did, is make fans no longer accept anything but a clean ending. All Japan's matches weren't made realistic like a UWFI style, but were more realistic than any pro wrestling style in years. While its popularity increased greatly at live events, there is a downside to this as well. While this style seems to attract fans to buildings, what happened at the other end was similar to 1987 New Japan. Maeda in key matches was a big ticket seller, but since his matches were unspectacular to the casual fan, TV ratings dropped and eventually New Japan lost prime time, although judging from how New Japan's business went since that time, it's far better off the way it is now. All Japan also saw a ratings drop, although most feel that was due to having the same matches over-and-over, which is also a negative byproduct of what they were doing. The stronger the style, the harder it is to find wrestlers who can be put on top and execute the style. A weak athletic style, like a WWF style, can be done by nearly anyone with a little bit of experience in the ring and a nice looking costume. Anyone but a top worker in All Japan immediately stands out like a sore thumb. Ted DiBiase, when he went back, was a top worker and stood out like a sore thumb which showed just how difficult the style really had become. Eventually they were moved to an horrendous time slot, and the combination of the same talent and same matches and weak television did take an edge off All Japan this year although not in Tokyo where it has sold out every event for years.

While New Japan didn't go quite as far as All Japan when it comes to all clean finishes (although I can only recall out of more than 100 house shows, four matches that didn't have clean finishes all year) and total elimination of the blade, they largely followed suit. They even took sports realism one step farther, to eliminating the so-called traditional ladder of success in Japan. Instead of focusing on one wrestler and having rigid positioning of talent, they had a system where any of the top wrestlers could beat any other and upsets happened frequently. The top matches were intriguing because the fans knew there would be a pin at the end, and also didn't know for certain who would win or what move they'd win with.

My feeling is that WWF will be the most adaptive to change in 1995. It has to be. Unlike in WCW, the money WWF loses comes right out of Vince McMahon's pocket book, so money losses aren't just fun and games to him as they are with the people running WCW. He's obviously very serious about his bottom line and it must also be a precarious bottom line these days as exemplified by no revenge and no major raids in the other direction. It will be very difficult for a WWF so weaned on never doing finishes where top babyfaces lose clean, to break from the pattern. It'll be even more difficult to fans weaned on never seeing their heroes lose clean to accept those changes if they are made. All the rumors of WWF going to a Japanese like system in 1995 with more parity on type and clean finishes means that top faces are going to have to do jobs or the system won't work. But for a Japanese system to work means WWF would have to greatly improve its house show workrate and quality of its crew overall. The United States as it stands now doesn't have the grassroots system of Japan or Mexico when it comes to creating new stars and giving them the necessary fundamental background. Instead, as WCW showed with Alex Wright and Jean Paul Levesque on the last PPV, promotions are so desperate to create new stars that they are pushing people well before they are ready and it shows on the big cards. WCW won't change in 1995. Hogan is in charge. Hogan only knows 1980s American style. Ric Flair only knows it as well. In the Hogan 1980s American world, the top faces is superman and not athlete and he doesn't lose clean. The top heel never wins clean. Where's the heat if the heel wins without cheating? Only problem is in 1994, no company with that attitude made a profit.

[Quom]

FULL GUARD

The full guard is almost the default position for fighting on the ground, it's where most ground encounters start. The fighter on the top is in the dominant position, as is the case with most ground fighting, while the fighter on the bottom tries to keep his legs hooked behind the back of the fighter on the top, to restrict his movement and make it more difficult for the fighter on the top to get to a better position. The important thing to note that differentiates this from other positions is the position of the fighters' legs. In full guard, the fighter on the bottom has his legs outside the fighter on the top's - see this picture if it's not immediately clear. It's not a bad position for either man, but it's not great and most fighters will try to improve it wherever possible. I sometimes refer to it as "open" and "closed" guard - both positions are full guard positions, the legs are in the same place, with the difference being where the top fighter's upper body is - in closed guard, the bottom fighter keeps his hands on the back or the head of the top fighter and pulls him down, thus restricting the amount of movement or damage the top fighter can do if he chooses to ground and pound, whereas in open guard the top fighter is able to keep his upper body away from the bottom fighter, which gives him more room to manoeuvre and the potential to do more damage with strikes, but also gives the bottom fighter more ability to reverse or force him away.

Couple of issues. I wouldn't call it the default position for fighting on the ground, most elite wrestler or judo guys generally fall into side control or half guard. I'd also explain that some fighters pull guard. especially strong BJJ guys who are taking on people they feel are inexperienced or who they have a big advantage of on the ground. You would probably also want to mention that there are some fighters who are likely more dangerous whilst on their back than their opponent is in top position Werdum vs. Overeem is a good example of this where Overeem wasn't getting on the ground for love or money. The full guard is pretty much a 50/50 or favours the bottom guy (at least whilst it stays in that position). There are very few submissions you can lock in from the top (Americana is about the only one I can think of and that's easier from half guard or side control) and I can't remember the last time I saw someone knocked out or severely damaged from full guard. There are quite a few sweeps or submissions from the bottom (triangle, sweep into an armbar/kimura, or a guillotine arm in or out).

Also I have never seen closed and open guard referred to as what you are referring to. I always thought closed guard is if you have your legs wrapped around your opponent and it's open if you don't. I'm confident my definition is correct . What you are describing is head control.

[Guest mr. potato head]

Rich Franklin vs. Cung Le at UFC 148, Maynard vs. Guida headlines an FX show. Two fights I'm very excited for.

[tomroe]

[EddieG]

Is there anything Brendan Schaub isn't doing?

[Beefus of Bethesda]

Is there anything Brendan Schaub isn't doing?

Keeping his consciousness in the cage would be the first thing that comes to mind.

[EddieG]

I got got by the UFC On Fox facebook page, announcing the UFC has added a women's division. Damn this date. ¬_¬

[Blitz]

I got got by the UFC On Fox facebook page, announcing the UFC has added a women's division. Damn this date. ¬_¬

April fools?

[bolleje]

Overeem failed a drug test:

http://mmajunkie.com/news/28109/alistair-overeem-fails-pre-fight-drug-test-likely-out-of-ufc-146-title-fight.mma

Ugh... that sucks.

[Rich]

No definitely out of the fight if his B sample comes back negative, but yeah, it's pretty sucky

[naiwf]

Overeem was juiced? No way. He doesn't look ANYTHING like someone who has ever dabbled in PED usage.

[Beefus of Bethesda]

Paging Mark Hunt.

[Rich]

Hunt is not ready for a title shot. Smart money would be on either Mir or Werdum

[Guest mr. potato head]

Werdum wouldn't draw a dime. Meltzer says smart money is Mir or Velasquez and I have to agree with him. Hoping for Mir for competitive reasons.

[gunnar hendershow]

Mir should get the shot.

I'm not surprised in the slightest Overeem tested positive. Honestly a bit surprised it took this long.

[maninblack]

Lesnar should return to UFC and demand a rematch @_@

[Plubby]

BAH GAWD THAT'S BROCK LESNAR'S MUSIC!