Stranger Things

[livid]

To be fair, it will still be 4 more hours since 8 is an hour and a half and 9 is two and a half. 

But that's also why I was saying I'm not sure that the cliffhanger was worth the wait. Would have rather they just had it all drop at once. 

[Baddar]

20 hours ago, Benji said:

I was under the impression volume two would be at least five or six more episodes... It's two. That is super dumb to split them that way.

I figured they held off on the last two so that people didn't power through in one day and fill the internet with spoilers, but there's been a fair amount of stuff that could be spoiled in the 7 that have aired.

Plus I think I read that they're still applying the final touches to the last two episodes. And that the finale is now 2hrs 18mins, not the 2hrs 30mins that was mooted originally.

[Cymbols]

I don't mind it so much. Like, on balance, I prefer the weekly episode structure of programming, so I'm not fussed by it. Like, before Game of Thrones fell off a cliff, having a week to talk things over, come up with theories and all that, was pretty dope. You don't get that so much with the episode dump approach.

As for S4:

Spoiler

I kind of think it was the weakest season, so far. Like, I still really enjoyed it, but unlike the other seasons we've seen, everyone was sort of grouped together from the start, and stayed that way. I totally understand how/why it happened, and I've no doubt that everyone will come together at the end. But for me, a lot of the charm was random pairings and seeing how different characters would interact with each other who might not otherwise (Jonathan/Nancy in season one, Steve/Dustin in season two, and so on).

Still think the finale is gonna be ace though.

 

[gunnar hendershow]

Finally got caught up.

Spoiler

I thought the season was a bit bloated at times - I could've done without 90% of California and a fair bit of Russia. The lab sequences started to get grating until, finally, we got a worthy payoff. When it was good though it was really good. Netflix splitting the season into occurring during 2 separate fiscal quarters is painfully obvious, but I do like having a little bit of time off while we begin to question if Nancy is going to make it out alive or not. My prevailing guess is we're going to say goodbye to Steve in episode 9 but they may have been too heavy-handed with the death flags to surprise us when it's someone else.

Overall taking the show and actually exploring how things are now much, much bigger than anything these kids should rightfully be able to handle is the logical direction. Even if it kind of spoils the magic of the first season, which will always stand above the rest.

Episode 4 was as high a point as we've gotten in the entire show. And off the heels of that I expect Sadie Sink to show up in an absolute ton of shows and movies in the future. For me she's emerged as the most talented of all the Hawkins kids. Gaten Matarazzo is a close second though, and he's brought to life so many of the scenes he's been in.

 

[Dang117]

Without going into spoilers there are some really strong scenes and performances in this from a lot of the younger cast. Sadie, Millie, Gaten and Caleb all have really strong performances I thought

[Benji]

On 07/06/2022 at 16:17, Cymbols said:

I don't mind it so much. Like, on balance, I prefer the weekly episode structure of programming, so I'm not fussed by it. Like, before Game of Thrones fell off a cliff, having a week to talk things over, come up with theories and all that, was pretty dope. You don't get that so much with the episode dump approach.

As for S4:

  Reveal hidden contents

I kind of think it was the weakest season, so far. Like, I still really enjoyed it, but unlike the other seasons we've seen, everyone was sort of grouped together from the start, and stayed that way. I totally understand how/why it happened, and I've no doubt that everyone will come together at the end. But for me, a lot of the charm was random pairings and seeing how different characters would interact with each other who might not otherwise (Jonathan/Nancy in season one, Steve/Dustin in season two, and so on).

Still think the finale is gonna be ace though

 

I have nothing wrong with the weekly approach, I just hate the fact they dumped part and then only saved two episodes. Like, do one or the other, or split it into more even halves. Just seems weird as a choice.

Still, about to start now, very excited.

[Azazel]

Spoiler

I love the stark difference from Season 3 and Dustin singing The Never Ending Story during the finale, to the MUCH darker season 4 that has Eddie playing Master of Puppets on the roof.

 

[Benji]

Episode 9

Spoiler

It WAS Master of Puppets Eddie plays

 

[DFF]

2 hours ago, Benji said:

I have nothing wrong with the weekly approach, I just hate the fact they dumped part and then only saved two episodes. Like, do one or the other, or split it into more even halves. Just seems weird as a choice.

Still, about to start now, very excited.

It turns out they only just finished the SFX for Ep9 late last night and uploaded it overnight. That was why there was a split. 

 

As for the episodes - loved 'em. Bring on Season 5! 

[Benji]

Episode 9, spoiler...

Spoiler

Spoiler

Eddie Max I promised I wouldn't love again after Bob

 

 

[Bobfoc]

This show is, well, strange to me because I can never tell if I like it or not. While it's corny and clichéd at times, it's still oddly engaging.

[Baddar]

I love the characters in the show, so many of them. I didn't love (nor hate) the few episodes that closed out S4 though.

Spoiler

There were so many great scenes, feel good moments, and moments where I was close to tears (my missus cried when Eddie died though).

I don't necessarily need big characters to be killed off for the shock factor, but in the grand scheme of things, despite big bad Vecna being behind everything since the beginning, the main cast are all still standing (except maybe Max who's alive but her condition is unclear :() and they continue to kill off other likeable ones instead.

From the very beginning I've loved everything to do with the main group, Joyce and Hop etc, and funnily enough the stuff with Eleven/Papa hasn't engaged me as much. 

 

[RazorsEdge]

E9 spoilers

Spoiler

I kinda knew that Eddie had to die to make up for his running away earlier in the season but I still let myself get attached to him. Shattered that he did die.

I hope Max makes a full recovery because Sadie Sink was the low key MVP of this season, she absolutely knocked the assignment out of the park.

 

[Ruki]

Spoiler

Eddie

 

Can we have season 5 yet?? If they are going to use a new dnd monster next season, I can only see it being Lolth (Henry's obsession with spiders). 

 

[Lint]

Spoiler

Same about Eddie...I was hoping he'd make it.  I was also kind of hoping Max would die, because it feels like, for the main characters, there are no stakes.  I knew El was never in danger of dying, and neither was Mike or Will.  But geez, kill Dustin, or Lucas, or Murray, or Erica, or just someone we've known for more then a few episodes and them dying would surprise us!

Also, of the Russian guys, I at least hope Enzo comes back.  I really liked him

 

[Skummy]

Despite a few misgivings, I really enjoyed that series, even if it got a bit silly at times.

Spoiler

Some negatives first:

Last series it was Hopper, this series it was Jonathan that seemingly had his character development ignored and reduced to a bit of a sad parody of himself. He had some nice moments in the final episode, but mostly he just seemed to be a twist on the sad act loner he was in series one, rather than the more rounded character he'd become. There was a sense that he was being sidelined in favour of moving towards a Steve/Nancy reunion, which seems more a result of fan appreciation of Steve than what's best for the story - Steve started out as the bully boyfriend that Nancy had to get over to realise her affections for Jonathan, and now it's kind of gone the other way where Jonathan's the bad boyfriend (for other reasons) and Steve's the nice guy. And obviously Steve is a nice guy now, and one of the best characters in the show, but I think the best character arc for him as he matures is to be able to move on from Nancy too.

Mike was another one that really wasn't great - particularly for someone explicitly painted as the heart of the party - aside from revisiting some of the "stupid boys" stuff of the last series, he just came across as a petulant prick right up until the last episode and, honestly, still then when it came to anything but Eleven. There were points when I thought it might even be intentional - when he's telling Eleven how nobody likes him because he's an uncool nerd, I thought he was turning into the kind of nerd who thinks they're exceptional and different and that nobody likes them because of their interests, when actually nobody likes them because they're a pretentious dick. I kind of hoped he'd have that realisation at some point, because Mike as he was in this series wasn't really someone that I was pulling for Eleven to get back together with. That might still be coming; as much as most of their writing is pretty on-the-nose, I just can't see the Duffer Brothers being oblivious to the fact that Mike is moping about his problems and how "different" he is in the face of everything going on with Eleven and with Will, and now with Max and Lucas too, and probably with Dustin now that he's dealing with some significant grief. Mike is, ultimately, a privileged, spoiled rich kid, and him moping about his problems, compared to everyone else, is pretty tone-deaf if it's not an intentional character trait.

A silly minor thing, but the news report at the end said that Eddie had been missing since the earthquake. Surely he'd been missing for several days before the earthquake too? There was a manhunt to find him!

I think it speaks to the strength of the plotting of this series that I didn't think Vecna was where the show jumped the shark. Just every supervillain speech cliché going - we got a little, "we're not so different, you and I", some "we could have ruled side-by-side", and some "destroying the world and rebuilding it in my image". It probably helps that we know we're heading towards the last series, because I was really sceptical in general about having a "human" villain in the Upside Down - what makes the Upside Down scary is that it's unknowable and alien, even if it looks a little like our own world. Adding in a monologuing bad guy reduces that, as does having characters take multiple trips in and out of it, when back in series one you needed a hazmat suit just to be able to survive in there. Previous seasons got it right by having human villains alongside the Upside Down - whether that's Dr Brenner, the Russians, Billy (though they went into the Upside Down/human direction with him too), or whatever, it felt like the right move to have interpersonal tension as something separate and distinct from the spooky stuff.

Something they've done every series that ranges from being a bit too cute to genuinely detracting from the show, is clearly trying to emulate the high points of series one. The most obvious is Joyce's fairy lights > Joyce wallpapering the house with Will's drawings > Joyce's magnets > Joyce's Russian doll, but there's also tenuous analogies for how the Upside Down works using everyday objects once a series. This series getting Eleven back to having a shaved head felt like a pretty blatant, "you remember this, don't you?" move to bring her back to her most iconic look.

 

All that aside, this was a brilliant series in spite of those faults, and that largely came from the strength of the performances and the integrity of the characters - Eddie sometimes felt like a bit of a parody, and I'm not sure how necessary an addition Argyle was to the cast, but for the core cast, and especially Joyce, the actors do such a good job of inhabiting those characters that they feel completely real, and their behaviour consistent.

Stranger Things is an ensemble piece, so I was expecting that the last two episodes would finally bring everyone back together, and I was surprised they didn't go with that route - other than the very end, setting up for series five. That they managed to make several concurrent action sequences all work together, with characters in scattered locations all over the place, really worked, and a lot better than I thought it would, even if some of the Russia stuff was a bit silly. In the past I've complained about how Stranger Things is at its best when everything is kept small, where it's plausible that people are still going about their day-to-day lives because only a small handful of people know what's going on, but I think this series did a good job of escalating that to just about breaking point, and having the story play out across multiple locations without feeling like it was breaking away from its "darkness in a small town" roots.

Sadie Sink should be getting cast everywhere now. Obviously her "Running Up That Hill" scene is getting all the love, but I actually thought that was a little heavy-handed, while her more subtle portrayals of teenage grief, trauma and depression throughout the series were far more impressive. A definite stand-out among the younger cast, none of whom are bad, which is a feat in itself.

 

I was hoping for a reveal of how Brenner survived his encounter with a Demogorgon, and thought that maybe he had ended up with some link to the Upside Down, the same way that Will has. Doesn't seem to be relevant now, though I'm not fully convinced he's dead either.

We got a little closer to knowing what the Upside Down is this time, though still a lot of questions. We saw from Vecna's flashback that Demogorgons and the Mindflayer were there before him, but that it was a bit of a wasteland - so how did it end up reflecting Hawkins? It can't have been built from Henry's memories, as the "Hawkins" bits seem to be frozen in time at the date Will got lost there. But why? What's significant about that date? Other people have been to the Upside Down before and since, so something happened to fix it at that time. And how and why did it start to replicate Hawkins in the first place? Is there a similar process happening at the Soviet gate?

Given the possibility of timey-wimey stuff, when they showed Henry sketching the Mindflayer, the fact that his drawing was identical to Will's was curious - was it that Henry was acting through Will when drawing his picture? Or was it something else - did the adult Henry/Vecna and the Mindflayer somehow project that image, not just to Will, but backwards through time to the young Henry? Is there a kind of timeloop going on where Henry's psychic powers as a child were a result of Vecna/Henry going to the Upside Down as an adult? Because we still don't know where Henry or Eleven's powers actually come from, or how they connect to the Upside Down, nor how much the likes of Brenner know the answer to that.

 

[Benji]

Spoiler

https://v.redd.it/8owksu40lk991

 

[gunnar hendershow]

Spoiler

Biggest gripe with this season is how big it was, despite that not needing to happen. They just wanted to have so many threads and each of those threads needed to endure the whole season, which made for some very bloated episodes.

I did really enjoy the season and it had some highlights, outstanding performances (welcome to the big time Sadie Sink), as well as some really well-done scenes. But episode 9 was just splicing together a ton at such a frantic pace it felt even longer than 140 minutes.

Season 5 naturally needs to deal with the inevitability of the end of the world now that the gates are fully opened. And it likely won't involve things like California and Russia (and Nevada, though the lab was central to the story) so I think it'll feel a bit more brisk. However Hawkins is presumably going to descend into madness, Will is going to have all sorts of shit going on, the government will still be involved, I assume the Soviets are totally gone from the story now but you never know, and then whatever season-specific plots and characters get added in.

I'd rate this as maybe the second best season though the real magic of the show is gone. Still some great character dynamics and fantastic scenes and events that keep me coming back for more though.

 

[Benji]

Spoiler

I think my only gripe was the Russia story and Eddie's death.

Eddie's death wasn't needed, and I honestly felt like if they wanted to really change the stakes then someone from the original cast needed to die.

Russia just felt 100% superfluous almost the entire time. It had no effect on anything and could have been dropped without anything of consequence happening aside from Hop returning. I wanted Hopper back, and the reunion with El was perfect, but I feel like it should have come with the serious cost of Joyce. It would give Will, Jonathan, El, and Hopper all massive things to deal with next season, two of whom needed more screen time this year but killed it when they were about.

 

[gunnar hendershow]

Spoiler

I didn't mind the presence of the Russia storyline it's that it was such a big deal and went on the entire season. I needed none of the stuff that went on there, the protracted stuff with Yuri, etc. But then you run a storyline where Winona Ryder and David Harbour are barely on TV for the entire season and you can't really do that (hell it might be in their contracts, they have that clout, especially Ryder). 

I agree that the Eddie death was rather needless. They could've easily written themselves out of the Satanic panic stuff after the "earthquake" as well OR brought Eddie into hiding with El. Plenty of options beyond killing him off.

It really would've hit more if they killed off one of the regular characters. Instead the three "big" deaths have all been one-or-two season characters - Bob, Billy, and now Eddie. Just becomes something you expect.