What are the greatest games of the 21st century?

[MDK]

6 minutes ago, 9 to 5 said:

Pissed cunt.

u wot m8

[Quom]

10 hours ago, RPS said:

I am going to leave the poll up until tomorrow. It's pretty clear that GTA San Andreas and The Sims are pretty much dead locked as being on our list, which makes sense. GTA 5 is a probably, but if there is more people who vote San Andreas only, it could be in the maybe pile. 

The games that have gotten multiple mentions or likes so far - Timesplitters 2, Fallout New Vegas, Minecraft, Civ IV, Mass Effect 2, World of Warcraft,  Skyrim, The Last of Us, Football Manager series, Metal Gear Solid 4, the Warriors, Baldur's Gate, a game from the Arkham series, and Diablo 2. I think what we should do next is decide what is in our shortlist from these games and figure out which games we should discuss further. And maybe to continue to discuss the other big franchises like Half Life, Mario, Zelda, Bioshock, etc. 

Personally, from this list and the games I have played - I would consider Civ IV and Minecraft to be on my slam dunks. I probably would also lean towards including New Vegas. But for me personally - Mass Effect 2, Skyrim, the Last of Us, and any game in the Arkham series are not games that I consider great. But obviously, that is what discussions are for. 

The Arkham series is incredibly important for the mechanics (even discounting Asylum being a great game and potentially deserving of being on the list regardless): It created a new fighting system that has been copied by a lot of open world 3rd person games. It also refined the detective mode (which admittedly did exist prior) to new heights and is now a staple of that genre.

Arkham Asylum's impact isn't as large as GTA's, but its fingerprints are all over a lot of modern games that people love and I personally think that makes it pretty 'great'. 

Basically without AA, a lot of games released since would be missing features that we now take for granted. I dunno if that makes it deserve extra consideration, but to me it does. 

[MDK]

54 minutes ago, Quom said:

The Arkham series is incredibly important for the mechanics (even discounting Asylum being a great game and potentially deserving of being on the list regardless): It created a new fighting system that has been copied by a lot of open world 3rd person games. It also refined the detective mode (which admittedly did exist prior) to new heights and is now a staple of that genre.

Arkham Asylum's impact isn't as large as GTA's, but its fingerprints are all over a lot of modern games that people love and I personally think that makes it pretty 'great'. 

Basically without AA, a lot of games released since would be missing features that we now take for granted. I dunno if that makes it deserve extra consideration, but to me it does. 

I never played Arkham. What did they add that was so revolutionary? 

[Quom]

I just said :/

The detective mode and the combat.

[MDK]

9 minutes ago, Quom said:

I just said :/

The detective mode and the combat.

...

Oh right.

Maybe what I meant was "what was it about the combat mode that made it so amazing?" because I think I remember combat being in games before Arkham but I'm not sure. Was Streets of Rage before or after AA? I forget. 

[Quom]

2 hours ago, MDK said:

...

Oh right.

Maybe what I meant was "what was it about the combat mode that made it so amazing?" because I think I remember combat being in games before Arkham but I'm not sure. Was Streets of Rage before or after AA? I forget. 

Your response was "what did they do that was revolutionary", which I took as "I didn't actually read what you wrote" (since I'd listed it) not "I never played it, so I'm not actually sure what was unique and despite you saying it and google/youtube being a thing I'd rather you explain it, then when you don't understand what I said because I was obtuse I'll be a total dick". I didn't realise you didn't know what the fighting system was. Like nowadays it's used as a descriptor 'this game has Arkham style combat' so I'd assumed it was a known quantity.

It has come the closest so far to handling group combat in a relatively simple and intuitive way. It's simple to learn and remember since it's timing based as opposed to the combo system used in a lot of games prior, nor did it use the block and parry system or require you to lock on to a target and switch between combatants or use a QTE style. It was highly lauded and some variation has been used in most similar games since. 

I dunno and can't really be arsed trying to work out how to explain it. It's used in Shadow of Mordor, Arkham (obvs), Mad Max and is similar to what is used in Sleeping Dogs, Assassins Creed etc. 

 

 

[ChrisSteeleAteMyHamster]

Assassin's Creed came two years before Arkham Asylum. I would argue that AC was more revolutionary and changed more in games going forward.

[MDK]

2 hours ago, Quom said:

Your response was "what did they do that was revolutionary", which I took as "I didn't actually read what you wrote" (since I'd listed it) not "I never played it, so I'm not actually sure what was unique and despite you saying it and google/youtube being a thing I'd rather you explain it, then when you don't understand what I said because I was obtuse I'll be a total dick". I didn't realise you didn't know what the fighting system was. Like nowadays it's used as a descriptor 'this game has Arkham style combat' so I'd assumed it was a known quantity.

It has come the closest so far to handling group combat in a relatively simple and intuitive way. It's simple to learn and remember since it's timing based as opposed to the combo system used in a lot of games prior, nor did it use the block and parry system or require you to lock on to a target and switch between combatants or use a QTE style. It was highly lauded and some variation has been used in most similar games since. 

I dunno and can't really be arsed trying to work out how to explain it. It's used in Shadow of Mordor, Arkham (obvs), Mad Max and is similar to what is used in Sleeping Dogs, Assassins Creed etc. 

I had no idea it was so influential. I never played it but I vaguely remember my mate playing it on his PS3 and I was never wowed by it. But because you mention Sleeping Dogs (I finished it just recently, bloody brilliant game) I think I see what you mean. If it goes on sale on steam I might have a look.

[Benji]

58 minutes ago, ChrisSteeleAteMyHamster said:

Assassin's Creed came two years before Arkham Asylum. I would argue that AC was more revolutionary and changed more in games going forward.

Was going to say this, but I realised that in actual fact Quom is right. The most common aspects of modern AC combat were added in the AC2 trilogy, all of which were released after Arkham Asylum.

I would say that whilst AA didn't begin the freeflow combat system and there are many games that had something similar, it certainly improved on and perfected it enough to be worthy of a mention, and the detective system is absolutely on point. The amount of games that added the detective "ping" ability is huge.

[lanky316]

I had thought the AC games had improved combat post AA but I wasn't entirely sure in the end if that was the fact that I'd just preferred the latter entries but good to hear I'm not alone in thinking they were tweaked. The Arkham system certainly went through and has changed the approach to it the way it works and given a near perfect style of freeflow combat that doesn't feel like degenerating into a button mash.

I do think that while being good for story and having strong arcs in each entry, the mechanics are one of the stronger points of the Arkham games, the driving  parts in Knight probably being the only one that didn't quite sit easy in general but I know plenty who like them. There's very few mechanical things in them that people seem to struggle with and that since bits have been borrowed and used since is testament to how strong they are.

Edited March 8, 2017 by lanky316

[ChrisSteeleAteMyHamster]

Was San Andreas the first game of the '00s to introduce a horribly out of place and jarring stealth mission within a game and control system that didn't at all fit with the rest of the game?

 

It's become far too heavily used.

[R.W.]

For me, Bioshock Infinite was the greatest game in years - I played it for 12 hours straight without realizing as I was so immersed in the story and gameplay. 

Arkham City, Assassins Creed 2, GTA:Vice City and bizarrely Marvel Ultimate Alliance are also games I can go back to and still play.

[MalaCloudy Black]

37 minutes ago, ChrisSteeleAteMyHamster said:

Was San Andreas the first game of the '00s to introduce a horribly out of place and jarring stealth mission within a game and control system that didn't at all fit with the rest of the game?

 

It's become far too heavily used.

I'm struggling to remember which mission this was because it's been a few years since I played SA.

I'd also second World of Warcraft. If there are two games I've lost the most time to, it's more than likely that it's WoW, then GTA: SA. SA's multiplayer was really basic, but really fun - to the point that, even 3 or 4 years after the game released, I had a buddy who'd come home from college every weekend, and that's what we would do. We would sit in my room, drinking and causing mayhem for hours on end.

Someone mentioned Baldur's Gate, and that reminded me: I'd like to throw Champions of Norrath into the discussion. It uses the engine from Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance, but it's a SOE game set in the EverQuest universe with up to 4 players at a time. That's another game that I spent a loooot of hours on with my friends. Four of us would get together at someone's house and start playing at 7 or 8 PM and not stop until the wee hours of the morning.

[Fudge]

8 minutes ago, Cloudy said:

I'm struggling to remember which mission this was because it's been a few years since I played SA.

I'd also second World of Warcraft. If there are two games I've lost the most time to, it's more than likely that it's WoW, then GTA: SA. SA's multiplayer was really basic, but really fun - to the point that, even 3 or 4 years after the game released, I had a buddy who'd come home from college every weekend, and that's what we would do. We would sit in my room, drinking and causing mayhem for hours on end.

Someone mentioned Baldur's Gate, and that reminded me: I'd like to throw Champions of Norrath into the discussion. It uses the engine from Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance, but it's a SOE game set in the EverQuest universe with up to 4 players at a time. That's another game that I spent a loooot of hours on with my friends. Four of us would get together at someone's house and start playing at 7 or 8 PM and not stop until the wee hours of the morning.

The one where you steal Madd Dogg's rhymes. It might be called Madd Dogg's Rhymes.

[Mick]

Throwing EWR into the mix , since without it we would not be having this discussion. 

[MDK]

57 minutes ago, R.W. said:

Bioshock Infinite

It got to a point that I wanted to finish the game because of how much I was enjoying the story. Nothing wrong with the game per se, but it did feel a bit linear. But the story really made up for it.

[Lint]

On 3/6/2017 at 20:46, ChrisSteeleAteMyHamster said:

Metal Gear Solid 4 played the Shadow Moses part perfectly. Bosses were good. Story was great. The feel was mournful and retrospective and I loved that. Gameplay was varied and enjoyable without over-lengthening parts for the sake of it. The part where Snake was crawling along near the end had me almost in tears. Anyway, I have a tattoo of Solid Snake creeping around under a box, so I love MGS.

The bosses were terrible.  Every other MGS game had bosses that were layered and each had their own personality.  The B&B Corps, though, all came down to "Has PTSD, told killing Snake will cure it"

[Quom]

8 hours ago, ChrisSteeleAteMyHamster said:

Assassin's Creed came two years before Arkham Asylum. I would argue that AC was more revolutionary and changed more in games going forward.

But it was a bit shit >_>. The first AC was almost a proof of concept, if you see someone recommend the franchise 90% of the time it's 'skip the first one'. The tower climbing thing has shamelessly been stolen (even appearing in the new Zelda), but as a game I don't think it has held up with future titles refining all the systems and making them 'good' (plus as was said AA came out then suddenly the combat in AC became better, it's hard to tell if that was done in a vacuum or if it was 'shit this game has done what we were trying to do, better use aspects from it').

AC is kind of the opposite to Arkham Asylum, in both the newer titles are more polished and refined but a lot of people still prefer Asylum because they think it was a better game (was more enclosed, had a better story etc.). 

[Your Mom]

Mass Effect 2 and The Last of Us are my 2 favorite games in a long long time

[OctoberRaven]

13 hours ago, Lint said:

The bosses were terrible.  Every other MGS game had bosses that were layered and each had their own personality.  The B&B Corps, though, all came down to "Has PTSD, told killing Snake will cure it"

I mean, if we're going to induct one MGS, it should be 3.