House of the Dragon (Game of Thrones) Thread

[Maxx]

1 minute ago, Azazel said:

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That story has almost entirely avoided having the cliche hero fights bad guy and wins arcs.  Jon just wanted to stop the dead, he didn’t have a personal vengeance against The Night King anyway.

 

Didn't say he needed to win, but the fact that they never even faced off one on one is a big let down

[XMS]

Spoiler

The battle was good, but more deaths would have made it better. I think it's symptomatic of the showrunners being ahead of the books. There's no way GRRM does a battle like that and doesn't off a main character. 

I'm fine with Arya being the one to kill the Night King. It gives Melissandre's whole return (and entire plot line, basically). Beric was resurrected all those times in order to save Arya. Even the Hound, who Beric said was "touched by the Lord of the Light" played a part in keeping her alive all this time. Plus, you have Bran giving her the dagger when she returned to Winterfell, as if he knew what was going to happen. 

 

[Mx. Canadian Destroyer]

2 hours ago, Maxx said:

 

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Didn't say he needed to win, but the fact that they never even faced off one on one is a big let down

 

Spoiler

The reason I liked it is because that moment really felt like there was no way out for the living. Jon felt like the one who should go to kill him but when he rushes him, the Night King raises the folks who had just died. I truly thought at that moment that the Night King was going to win. I know some people feel like Arya's arrival was a bit out of nowhere but I was genuinely so excited when that happened. 

I want to know how much of that was planned. Was Arya always supposed to jump out of where ever to attack the Night King? Because the plan was for Jon and Dany to be just out of the way so that they could catch the NK in the trap, but that plan was thrown out the window almost immediately. 

 

[Ruki]

56 minutes ago, Ms. Canadian Destroyer said:

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The reason I liked it is because that moment really felt like there was no way out for the living. Jon felt like the one who should go to kill him but when he rushes him, the Night King raises the folks who had just died. I truly thought at that moment that the Night King was going to win. I know some people feel like Arya's arrival was a bit out of nowhere but I was genuinely so excited when that happened. 

I want to know how much of that was planned. Was Arya always supposed to jump out of where ever to attack the Night King? Because the plan was for Jon and Dany to be just out of the way so that they could catch the NK in the trap, but that plan was thrown out the window almost immediately. 

 

I'm sure Bran had it planned. As for the non-3 Eyed Raven people.... probably none of it.

[Mx. Canadian Destroyer]

31 minutes ago, Ruki said:

 

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I'm sure Bran had it planned. As for the non-3 Eyed Raven people.... probably none of it.

 

Spoiler

Yeah, I feel like it makes more sense for it to have been planned but there are a few things that make me doubt it.

Jon wanted to stick to the original plan but Dany seemed to convince him to take their fight directly to the Night King. They also probably would have just had Arya somewhere a little safer as the plan would have backfired if she had've been caught in the library. It seemed like it didn't come into fruition until Melisandre told her that she would kill "blue eyes".

 

[Tigerstyle]

It was 100% the last thing you said

[Benjamin]

36 minutes ago, Ms. Canadian Destroyer said:

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Yeah, I feel like it makes more sense for it to have been planned but there are a few things that make me doubt it.

Jon wanted to stick to the original plan but Dany seemed to convince him to take their fight directly to the Night King. They also probably would have just had Arya somewhere a little safer as the plan would have backfired if she had've been caught in the library. It seemed like it didn't come into fruition until Melisandre told her that she would kill "blue eyes".

 

Spoiler

 

Yeah, I'm pretty sure Bran was the only one who knew the plan all along. Perhaps not the outcome and everything, but the structure of what needed to be done for Arya to be successful. That's why he gave her that dagger. I saw some speculation that he saw premonitions of her failing to kill the Night King with Needle or her new weapon, so he gave her the dagger to nudge the future in their favor. 

Which I also guess is the same explanation for why he warged into a Raven to go and say hi to the Night King in the sky. When he said he has to go and then went and did that, it just seemed so nonsensical to piss the bad guy off so more of your side dies. 

Also, Arya's been watching a lot of Dwayne Johnson movies because that's what he does in every movie he's in. 

 

 

[Mx. Canadian Destroyer]

12 minutes ago, Benjamin said:

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Yeah, I'm pretty sure Bran was the only one who knew the plan all along. Perhaps not the outcome and everything, but the structure of what needed to be done for Arya to be successful. That's why he gave her that dagger. I saw some speculation that he saw premonitions of her failing to kill the Night King with Needle or her new weapon, so he gave her the dagger to nudge the future in their favor. 

Which I also guess is the same explanation for why he warged into a Raven to go and say hi to the Night King in the sky. When he said he has to go and then went and did that, it just seemed so nonsensical to piss the bad guy off so more of your side dies. 

Also, Arya's been watching a lot of Dwayne Johnson movies because that's what he does in every movie he's in. 

 

 

Spoiler

I don't think the dagger Arya used was the catspaw dagger. She gave that one to Sansa. It was just a dagger she picked up when she was running from the walkers. 

EDIT: Nevermind, reddit seems sure that it is. 

 

[Jimmy]

8 hours ago, The Chiksrara Special said:

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I'm not nearly as invested so forgive me if this is ridiculous but is it possible you guys built it up too much? Like I've done this with movies before where no matter what they do it's not going to be anywhere as good as I imagined it in my head. Like to me as someone with a passing interest it seemed like an epic, hard (poorly lit) battle.

 

Hm, I was thinking this, but, here's my probs incoherent take on it. 

I think, for me, they bit off more than they could chew. It was a phenomenal visual and cinematic feat, but I think I felt the emotional storytelling wasn't executed quite right. There was so much going on, and this is the first time we've had so many characters in one place at one time, that it was simply too much to fit in.

In theory, everyone was all but fair game to die. This is Game of Thrones, there's an acceptable that anyone could go at any minute, but it felt a bit...safe? And as other people have pointed out, almost past the point of me suspending disbelief.

There was five deaths, but no real major players. Not even one, and I never felt like any one was going to, except briefly Arya when the Night King catches her. Brienne, Jamie and Tormund were often shown swamped...and then we'd just cut away from them and assume they were okay. Similarly, the danger in the crypt never felt fully explored, that scene between Sansa and Tyrion (beautiful, by the way) didn't feel earned because we didn't get a sense of the terror, there wasn't enough individual build-up.

Obviously, we got some great stuff in that episode, and it was incredible. But for that episode, that fight, I shouldn't have been able to relax for a moment, I should've been on the edge of my seat, in fear for the characters I love in a fight the show has been foreshadowing for eight seasons and I barely got it in bursts. Crazy that the other White Walkers or whatever didn't have any interaction with any main players. Just, eh. I also actually felt Theon and Jorrah's death was undermined by the score, but that might be personal preference. 

I dunno if this rambling makes much sense, but basically, the visual side was stunning, but the emotional storytelling felt off. And while I assume they wanna let these characters live for the finale, I can't help but feel that was all a little too easy and, the Arya moment aside, a little predictable.

Keen to re-watch, though. Got a feeling I'll have a different take.

[Benji]

Re Night King motivation.

Spoiler

It was actually laid out in the previous episode. He wants to destroy man and all memory of man, this why he wants to kill the Three-Eyed Raven who is basically an encyclopedia of the past and future of man. Presumably he wants to do this because of what men did to the children (and why he was created in the first place).

As for the episode itself...

Spoiler

Fell a bit flat to me. This season definitely needed to be longer, or at least merged in with the political story better. I know they were never the real big bad, but considering the hype into them, killing the entirety of them in a single episode feels like a total waste, and the fact it was only ever non-key characters dying, it felt to me very much like the writers saw this episode as an inconvenience they had to get through before the real finale. Entirely understand and respect if anyone disagrees with that feeling though.

Cinematographywas great aside from how dark it was (an eternal issue with GoT).

By no means was it a bad episode, it was just a little underwhelming for seven and a half seasons of hype.

Looking forward to next week.

EDIT:

Spoiler

Oh, and as for who killed NK - I actually think Arya was the perfect choice. Her entire reason for being is getting revenge for and protecting her family. The other family members all have divided loyalties, so it makes a lot of sense to me that she would be the assassin of her brother's likely killer. Unfortunately I also think that might mean she won't be seeing out the finale

 

[Schlitzbrille]

So apparently pianos make a song in Game of Thrones low-key fecking amazing.

[Benji]

Shit, credit to several users on Reddit...

Spoiler

Who was going to kill The Night King was in front of us the whole time. He is the leader of a dead army, and Arya was told "what do we say to The God of Death? Not today!" 

 

[Benjamin]

57 minutes ago, Benji said:

Shit, credit to several users on Reddit...

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Who was going to kill The Night King was in front of us the whole time. He is the leader of a dead army, and Arya was told "what do we say to The God of Death? Not today!" 

 

Spoiler

Pfft, real credit goes to Syrio Forel.

 

[Benji]

Spoiler

Changed my mind, episode grew on me when I thought about it and started reading some of the notes. In particular another Reddit user:

"I just love how... the Night King was created when a girl stabbed him with a dagger under a weirwood tree and that he died when a girl stabbed him with a dagger under a weirwood tree."

 

[Maxx]

From what I've seen the people that didn't like it are at like a Last Jedi level of hatred for it, so its impossible to take any of their critiques seriously.

[Bobfoc]

As I've said, there were more things I didn't like than those that I did like, but to froth with anger like some people on the internet are doing is absurd.

[Benji]

What are they frothing over in particular?

[Benjamin]

5 minutes ago, Benji said:

What are they frothing over in particular?

Spoiler

tbh I was also angry that Ghost was maybe dieded, but after I saw the screenshot of next week's episode that he isn't, I kinda' forgot what else I was mad about 

I still don't think it's as good as The Watchers on the Wall or The Battle of Blackwater Bay, but there were a few bits I really, really did like:

Spoiler

Most particularly, Arya giving me the feels of that Harry Potter game where you're sneaking about the library in the middle of the night and trying to avoid prefects, teachers and Filch; Tyrion and Sansa are super sweet together, Theon's death; Lyanna Mormont becoming Lyanna Giantslayer; and Arya being Azor Ahai. 

 

[Maxx]

31 minutes ago, Benji said:

What are they frothing over in particular?

 

PLOT ARMOR~! Is the biggest complaint I see.  They hate everything that's happened since they got past the book, and seem particularly upset that more characters didn't die.  Because A Song of Ice and Fire was all about subverting the normal fairy tale fiction where the virtuous hero doesn't get a happy ending, he dies because he was outnumbered by his enemies, etc. etc.  They didn't like anyone surviving against large numbers of zombies.  They didn't like Jon being rescued by Dany, or Dany being rescued by Jorah because omg how did they even get to them!  And ultimately, I'm not going to claim these complaints aren't valid, but its the level of vitriol these people have about these complaints that just makes it impossible to take them seriously.  I don't know how they enjoy anything. 

My major criticism is that they picked the wrong villain to get rid of first.  With how they've been building the threat of the white walkers, and how its the only war that matters, it just seems like weird choice to be like "oh, well that's done, guess we should go fight what we all decided was a less important war."  Either resolve the stuff with Cersei by episode 3 and then fight the war against the dead, or have them get pushed back further south and force everyone to confront the walkers together.

[livid]

14 minutes ago, Maxx said:

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PLOT ARMOR~! Is the biggest complaint I see.  They hate everything that's happened since they got past the book, and seem particularly upset that more characters didn't die.  Because A Song of Ice and Fire was all about subverting the normal fairy tale fiction where the virtuous hero doesn't get a happy ending, he dies because he was outnumbered by his enemies, etc. etc.  They didn't like anyone surviving against large numbers of zombies.  They didn't like Jon being rescued by Dany, or Dany being rescued by Jorah because omg how did they even get to them!  And ultimately, I'm not going to claim these complaints aren't valid, but its the level of vitriol these people have about these complaints that just makes it impossible to take them seriously.  I don't know how they enjoy anything. 

My major criticism is that they picked the wrong villain to get rid of first.  With how they've been building the threat of the white walkers, and how its the only war that matters, it just seems like weird choice to be like "oh, well that's done, guess we should go fight what we all decided was a less important war."  Either resolve the stuff with Cersei by episode 3 and then fight the war against the dead, or have them get pushed back further south and force everyone to confront the walkers together.

 

Spoiler

I actually disagree about the villain they chose. I think it makes a lot of sense for Night King to be first because the story (of the show at least) has been mostly about the conflict between the Starks and Lannisters. They made the White Walkers a threat because obviously in theory they should be but the central story arc isn't about them so resolving that and getting to real resolution of the story between the families will feel more earned as a finale than the story that only took up part of the narrative. 

This all could be different in the books but I kind of think what we're getting now will be the prologue of the final book after the battle.. It's just that the structure of books and TV are different so it's not quite apples to apples. 

 

 

13 hours ago, Dickon Manwoody said:

So apparently pianos make a song in Game of Thrones low-key fecking amazing.

The music might be the best part of the entire show. It's always been really good but the past couple of seasons has been especially great. 

Edited April 30, 2019 by livid