UEFA Champions League 2017/18

[Gazz]

Quote

We have received numerous calls today regarding the health status of Liverpool goalkeeper Loris Karius. With Mr. Karius’s permission, we are providing information about his medical situation in an effort to prevent, where possible, the dissemination of incomplete or erroneous information.

On May 31, 2018 Mr. Karius underwent a comprehensive examination by Dr. Ross Zafonte and Dr. Lenore Herget in Boston at Massachusetts General Hospital and Spaulding Rehabilitation Hospital.

After carefully reviewing game film and integrating a detailed history – including his reported present and immediate post-contact subjective symptoms – physical examination and objective metrics, we have concluded that Mr. Karius sustained a concussion during the match May 26, 2018.

At the time of our evaluation, Mr. Karius’s principal residual symptoms and objective signs suggested that visual spatial dysfunction existed and likely occurred immediately following the event. Additional symptomatic and objectively noted areas of dysfunction also persisted. It could be possible that such deficits would affect performance.

We also note that Mr. Karius has reported significant and steady improvement since the concussive event, and we expect him to make a full recovery based on the results of the examination. We expect that with treatment and by following prescribed activity protocols he will continue to improve. We have encouraged vigilance and an emphasis on safety in his eventual return to full activity.

This is the only comment we will be making in relation to this matter.  All future media inquiries should be directed to the Liverpool FC Press Office.

 

[The Lusophone]

3 hours ago, MDK said:

Oh, and it turns out that Karius might have been concussed from an earlier knock that, who else, Ramos gave him.

To be fair, Ramos was pushed into Karius by VVD so couldn't avoid the collision.

[MDK]

1 minute ago, MadJack said:

To be fair, Ramos was pushed into Karius by VVD so couldn't avoid the collision.

Fair point but he didn't need to sharpen his elbows.

[The Lusophone]

Just now, MDK said:

Fair point but he didn't need to sharpen his elbows.

He does share a doctor with Lex Luger.

[MDK]

5 minutes ago, MadJack said:

He does share a doctor with Lex Luger.

Not related, but in the CONIFA World Cup they are using a Green Card which is the refs way of saying "You sure, mate?".

[Adam]

3 hours ago, MDK said:

If the player doesn't tell the medical staff then how can they do a proper check? If you are concussed you aren't thinking straight, so if he thought he was kosher then why would he say? No player wants to get subbed off in the most important game of their career.

You've answered your own question there really. It isn't down to the player to tell the medical staff because by the very nature of a concussion you can't rely on the affected party. If he's gone down clutching his head, or if staff notice he got struck in the head, they should be checking for the signs straight away.

Remember that nonsense a few years ago with Hugo Lloris and AVB? Lloris got a knock to the head but refused to come off so AVB said "oh well, he can stay on if he says he's fine" prompting quite an outcry to do something and I thought they had put some steps in to establish at least some form of protocol in such situations but it clearly wasn't enacted here if it was.

[Colly]

I think the difference there is that the incident was seen though. Outside of putting medical or club staff all round the pitch how are you going to pick up things like the Karius incident? He didn't even stay down did he?

[Nerf]

12 hours ago, Cymbols said:

In that case Liverpool only have themselves to blame. Irresponsible from the club, to not even check on him when he went down holding his head, and to make the decision to keep him out there without at least taking a look at him. 

The player isn’t going to make the call himself, the team should be looking out for his well-being first and foremost. His well-being has to be more important than a game, for me. 

Also, makes Van Dijk’s recklessness pushing Ramos into the keeper even worse really. 

This is silly and demonstrates the lack of awareness of how concussions actually work.

Karius showed no obvious signs of a concussion (besides throwing the ball in his own net, hahaha, before you all get in there first). Nobody even knew he had suffered a head injury. He got up pretty much straight away afterwards, didn't say anything to anyone, and the referee didn't stop play (not his fault either).

Medical staff aren't allowed to review video during matches, so essentially what you're asking is for them to have spotted the clash from 50m+ away through a crowd of people and reacted to it, despite nobody else making it obvious that a head injury had occured. Even if they HAD saw it, they are not allowed within the rules of the game to just walk onto the pitch. They have to be invited on by the referee, who also saw no reason to suspect a head injury had occurred from up close.

If anything, the only criticism is on concussion protocol which is still way behind other sports. In all honesty teams need to be allowed temporary substitutes in these instances so that the proper time can be taken to undergo testing.

[MDK]

2 minutes ago, Nerf said:

Karius showed no obvious signs of a concussion (besides throwing the ball in his own net, hahaha, before you all get in there first). Nobody even knew he had suffered a head injury. He got up pretty much straight away afterwards, didn't say anything to anyone, and the referee didn't stop play (not his fault either).

I don't even think the ref stopped play.

[DavidMarrio]

40 minutes ago, MDK said:

I don't even think the ref stopped play.

The only thing that happened was Karius shouting at the pointless ref behind the goal after it. 

Nerf is right though. Football is still behind other sports when it comes to concussions. Don't they have spotters in the NFL and NHL who watch for head collisions?? I'm not viewing this as an excuse being made but instead it shows there has been a failure on several levels towards Karius from a medical level. 

Really they should just reward us with the trophy seen as though expert judoka Ramos tried to take Salah's arm as a trophy and tried to give our keeper brain damage...

Also: Chris Sutton in being a dick shocker  

 

[Cymbols]

1 hour ago, Nerf said:

This is silly and demonstrates the lack of awareness of how concussions actually work.

Karius showed no obvious signs of a concussion (besides throwing the ball in his own net, hahaha, before you all get in there first). Nobody even knew he had suffered a head injury. He got up pretty much straight away afterwards, didn't say anything to anyone, and the referee didn't stop play (not his fault either).

Medical staff aren't allowed to review video during matches, so essentially what you're asking is for them to have spotted the clash from 50m+ away through a crowd of people and reacted to it, despite nobody else making it obvious that a head injury had occured. Even if they HAD saw it, they are not allowed within the rules of the game to just walk onto the pitch. They have to be invited on by the referee, who also saw no reason to suspect a head injury had occurred from up close.

If anything, the only criticism is on concussion protocol which is still way behind other sports. In all honesty teams need to be allowed temporary substitutes in these instances so that the proper time can be taken to undergo testing.

Pretty sure I know how head injuries work. Almost as if I have one, isn’t it.

You have no way of knowing that he was showing no signs, because he wasn’t assessed. And that right there is the problem. Maybe you should read up on how they work, not me.

He went down holding his head, and yeah, medical staff should have spotted it. They are watching the game, why wouldn’t they have seen it? Yes they can’t just walk onto the pitch, but the coaching staff can voice their concerns to the 4th official, who can refer it on to the referee. 

I do agree that temporary subs is a good option, but until then, it is on the clubs to protect the players. Liverpool failed.

 

[MDK]

4 minutes ago, Cymbols said:

I do agree that temporary subs is a good option, but until then, it is on the clubs to protect the players. Liverpool failed. 

Temporary subs would end up getting abused like bloodgate in the egg chasing. I think it is a good idea but it needs to be implemented correctly.

 

[Cymbols]

True, very true. 

Either that or a fourth sub. Those are the only things I can think of.

[MDK]

Fourth sub can only be a 'keeper maybe?

[Cymbols]

14 minutes ago, MDK said:

Fourth sub can only be a 'keeper maybe?

What happens if an outfield player takes a knock to the head after all three subs already made?

There’s no obvious answer which is frustrating. 

[Colly]

39 minutes ago, Cymbols said:

Pretty sure I know how head injuries work. Almost as if I have one, isn’t it.

You have no way of knowing that he was showing no signs, because he wasn’t assessed. And that right there is the problem. Maybe you should read up on how they work, not me.

He went down holding his head, and yeah, medical staff should have spotted it. They are watching the game, why wouldn’t they have seen it? Yes they can’t just walk onto the pitch, but the coaching staff can voice their concerns to the 4th official, who can refer it on to the referee. 

I do agree that temporary subs is a good option, but until then, it is on the clubs to protect the players. Liverpool failed.

 

A crowded penalty area, a fairly poor vantage point at pitch side, the fact the player was immediately back up and it wasn't highlighted in replays until well after the incident? I entirely get what you're saying, but without getting to the point where players are checked after after sliding challenge or catch where the keeper goes to the floor (which is usually to waste time anyway) these things will be missed if the player doesn't raise it themselves. You can be concussed by a minor knock, or have a full on clash of heads and get away with nothing more than a cut. 

[MDK]

2 minutes ago, Cymbols said:

What happens if an outfield player takes a knock to the head after all three subs already made?

Mandatory 5 minute medical check. That would also have the benefit of stopping people pretending they have been hit in the head when they haven't.

[Cymbols]

3 minutes ago, MDK said:

Mandatory 5 minute medical check. That would also have the benefit of stopping people pretending they have been hit in the head when they haven't.

Yeah I’d say 10 minutes, but otherwise I agree. 

[DavidMarrio]

58 minutes ago, Cymbols said:

Pretty sure I know how head injuries work. Almost as if I have one, isn’t it.

You have no way of knowing that he was showing no signs, because he wasn’t assessed. And that right 

I do agree that temporary subs is a good option, but until then, it is on the clubs to protect the players. Liverpool failed.

 

I agree the clubs have to protect their players but at the same time I feel like you're going too harsh on a team for the points that Colly has made. Its not the best vantage point from across an Olympic running track and half way down the pitch. 

It's a failure on multiple sides not just Liverpool football club and I feel like you're missing that point.  If he's saying to the ref he's been banged in the head then the ref has a duty. The medical staff can't just leg it onto the field 

Karius has a duty too if it's something that he feels has impaired him he should be saying something instead if trying to play through it. I can understand it being the biggest game of your career but your health is more important 

[Adam]

I remember him going down injured for a time and the commentators mentioning it so it wasn't like a one second flash thing, there was definitely time for someone to have a quick look.