The England thread

[hugobomb]

Eh, I thought we where talking about for England. Welbeck is decent enough for his country, can hardly compare him and Heskey at that level.

But you could compare:

Heskey 1 goal in 28 PL 2011-12

Welbeck 1 goal in 26 PL 2012-13

Wasn't Heskey turned into a midfielder for parts of that season? Add in the difference between the level of service Heskey got at Villa and Welbeck gets at United and Danny really should hang his head in shame

[Dan]

Welbeck played in midfield a fair amount himself last season.

Not that it matters.

[brenchill]

Why are you so high on Welbeck? I don't get it at all.

[Baddar]

Yeah, Welbeck could and should have scored more goals, but it's not like he was playing as a striker in every match.

[Dan]

Why are you so high on Welbeck? I don't get it at all.

I'm not, he's just not a poor mans Heskey at international level at all, sure last season was poor for him but he was very good the season before (12 goals for a 20/21 year old).

Just another England player who the fans will get on the back of like Hargreaves, Lampard, Cole etc in the past.

[brenchill]

Why are you so high on Welbeck? I don't get it at all.

I'm not, he's just not a poor mans Heskey at international level at all, sure last season was poor for him but he was very good the season before (12 goals for a 20/21 year old).

Just another England player who the fans will get on the back of like Hargreaves, Lampard, Cole etc in the past.

Calling him a poor man's Heskey is a bit harsh, to be honest. Heskey at 22 was twice the player Welbeck is now.

[Dan]

You're so funny.

[brenchill]

What?

Heskey was scoring goals in the Premier League at 22. Something Welbeck hasn't grasped yet. Why is Welbeck better at 22 than Heskey was? I have already asked why you rate him so highly and you haven't answered me.

[Dan]

Did 2010-11 or 2011-12 not happen?

I don't rate him so highly, I think he's a decent player who didn't score enough goals in a team that has one guy scoring all the goals. My original statement was about Welbeck being better than Heskey at international level when it comes to goalscoring and people have pulled out allsorts of stuff from his last club season to counter that for some reason.

Edit: I think comparing him to Peter Crouch would be fairer at this point. Crouch has never really been prolific in the PL but always seemed to score for England.

[Hobo]

There is probably an argument that if you wanted a striker who can score goals at club level, Rickie Lambert should've gotten called up.

I kinda feel like international football should be a reward for players who do really well at club level. Yes, Lambert is 31 and probably wouldn't make the World Cup squad next year but there's no harm in calling up players who are doing well at their club for one off appearances.

In the past Ireland managers have done this with League of Ireland players like Joe Gamble, Glen Crowe and Jason Byrne.

[Summers]

Agree completely. Players should be picked on form. Welbeck has been pretty shit, as has Defoe tbh. Lambert deserved a call up.

[brenchill]

I kinda feel like international football should be a reward for players who do really well at club level.

As do I.

Maybe this is where I'm going wrong.

As for 2010/11 and 11/12 with regards to Welbeck, I'm completely lost. In 2010/11, he had a rather uninspiring loan spell at Sunderland. Admittedly, in 11/12 he fared a little better, but he was playing for Man Utd.

Just to make another comparison, Danny Sturridge was also farmed out to a "smaller" PL club in a similar way to Welbeck... but Sturridge managed to bang in 8 PL goals in 12 appearances.

[Jimmy]

You have to remember, people were trying to go for a United kind of connection in the England team which made sense. They were trying to incorporate Rooney, Welbeck and Cleverly into the team. I don't know you don't think he didn't have a good 11/12. After that season, everyone thought he was just going to get better and better, they couldn't have predicted he'd have a fairly bad season, but he has been played out of position because of RVP.

He shouldn't have been picked in this squad, but he definitely deserved previous call-ups. And so what if he's scoring goals for United? People have used it against him if he's not scoring in a team like United, but then you belittle him in a season that he did? That's not very fair.

[Nerf]

He's shit. That's a fair assessment.

[MDK]

Not very neutral of you

[Matticus]

Danny Welbeck is painfully average.

I mean in a sense that he plays for United, His Country and in the Premier League, he obviously isn't. But he is nowhere near the calibre of a Striker an England National Team should be banking on.

Edited May 30, 2013 by Matticus

[MDK]

Who is instead of him? Its not like we have a plentiful supply of talented strikers.

Or midfielders and defenders for that matter.

[brenchill]

I don't know you don't think he didn't have a good 11/12.

Admittedly, in 11/12 he fared a little better, but he was playing for Man Utd.

He only scored 9 goals, mind you. He hardly set the world on fire.

[Jimmy]

I don't know you don't think he didn't have a good 11/12.

Admittedly, in 11/12 he fared a little better, but he was playing for Man Utd.

He only scored 9 goals, mind you. He hardly set the world on fire.

Yeah, because that totally suggests you think he had a good season.

[brenchill]

He looked promising but has failed to deliver in his second season.

For me, he's a very poor version of Danny Sturridge and I think England can do better than that for a 4th choice striker.