EWR Stats and Scenarios in Theory and Practice

[Rich]

I think the tricky thing there though is that when the game came out the WWE was just one entity, there hadn't yet been a brand split and there was no NXT. Because of that the game doesn't need the dozens of staff members who are listed at WWE for completeness, whereas if you were playing as WWE and didn't have say William Regal you'd be steaming.

Agree on the ring announcers thing though, why bother? Why aren't cameramen listed...

The original data has the brand split and is the reason there is a brand split function in the game the first place iirc.

True, but the game was released in June 2002, this means about 2/3 months after the Brand Split occured, so I doubt too much time and thought, late in the development process was put in to the mechanics of this.

Your point is moot though, as although Colly's background information is a little off, he is right that the games doesn't need that amount of staff, hence the discussion.

[Bill1996]

OK, went through and made some notes:

-People who are in a performing role, but do not wrestle regularly, on a pro wrestling broadcast.
I would have all of these people get converted into Managers- which would fit their role better in EWR:

Jerry Lawler doesn't wrestle on RAW regularly... I certainly wouldn't qualify him as a "manager," though.

In addition to this, I'd say to look at lowering the stats of the medically-based non-wrestlers dramatically. Using the Edge example you gave as well: Edge will likely never wrestle again, but in EWR he "could" wrestle on PPVs as a Non-Wrestler. Having said that, however- Bret Hart is a Non-Wrestler, and also retired due to medical reasons. Eventually, Bret Hart did wrestle a few matches- but they were both more angle than match. Even then, people knew going into his matches Bret Hart wasn't going to turn back the clock and put on a 60-minute clinic as good as his matches in the '90s in his two matches- and his stats (49B-2S-63T) reflect that even if Bret Hart wrestled a match tomorrow, he's lost enough of a step so that the old Bret Hart is never coming back.

By contrast, Edge retired for medical reasons in 2011, but his stats were never lowered. It's not enough that Edge "could" wrestle again at a PPV in EWR, but according to EWR, Edge's 70B-37S-65T means that he'd not only wrestle, but Edge would never miss a beat and wrestle those matches as well as he did when he retired. Lowering Edge, or any other medically-barred wrestler's stats, would reflect this, make it less likely to use them in matches, and by lowering their EWR stats, would make it less likely that CPU-controlled companies will hire them and giving them huge pushes

This, I agree with. Unfortunately, the "out of sight, out of mind" applies a lot of the time... Meaning, people don't see Edge on TV, so they're not making comments about adjusting his stats.

Yeah, I'd agree with this. Obviously it's something to look at on a case-by-case basis, but if they're not likely to show up, remove them.

The argument that you'd have to create their stats all over again doesn't really carry much weight when that takes all of, what, a minute or two? It's not like worker's stats in EWR are particularly detailed, and it'll be a rare occurence that you'd have to do it anyway, as I doubt we'll see 100 people come out of retirement in a single month any time soon.

It comes down to the central point of this thread - what's more important to people, size or functionality? Do we want a huge database full of guys you probably won't ever use, or have never heard of, or one that plays well and is tailored around the gameplay mechanics rather than being exhaustive?

The problem with "If they're not likely to show up, remove them" is when workers do show up, when we thought we'd seen the last of them. Up until a couple years ago, pretty much everyone thought The Rock was done with wrestling.

It's also easy to say that "The argument that you'd have to create their stats all over again doesn't really carry much weight" when you're not the one having to enter, delete and re-enter all of the information. Keep in mind, entering a worker isn't just brawl, speed, tech, etc. It's alter egos, tag teams, relationships, etc.

The problem with "Guys you probably won't ever use, or have never heard of" is that different people play the game different ways. A guy you might "never use" or "have never heard of" might be a common choice for someone else to add to their roster.

Which brings me to something else that really needs addressing; relationships. It's another thing that constantly gets added, or at least suggested, to EWR stats updates with very little regard to the actual gameplay mechanics. Just because Wrestler X said he liked Wrestler Y in an interview doesn't warrant a friendship relationship, and not everybody who's ever appeared on Art Of Wrestling should have a friendship relationship with Colt Cabana. It should entirely come down to what these relationships affect in the game, and how feasible they are.

Not to mention that, in running monthly updates, there's always the chance of running up a backlog of "relationships" that are completely false. A dirtsheet mentions that two guys don't like each other, it's added to the database. Six months later, it's a complete non-issue, and was probably never true in the first place, yet the relationship is still there.

No disagreements here. I've held off in recent months in adding new relationships for this reason... Getting suggestions to get rid of some of the old ones that are no longer relevant would be a big plus.

If they don't make an appearance on TV at least once a year, I'd cut them.

So, you'd cut Steve Austin from your data? What about The Undertaker? He only wrestles at WrestleMania... Would you remove him if he doesn't wrestle at WrestleMania 30? When's the last time Bill Goldberg was on a wrestling show? Batista? Roddy Piper? DDP? That's just a few. On top of that, many indy workers have never been on a "televised" wrestling show. On top of that, what happens if a worker is injured IRL and is out more than a year? Do you remove them then, too, even when you know they will eventually be back?

The point is, setting a time limit for removing workers doesn't really work well with real life. I won't disagree that the database needs to be thinned out some, but setting time limits just doesn't work well.

There are people and probably federations that are likely not needed at all.

I don't think many people really care about the Mexican or Japanese guys (I would include Australian and European but I know there are a good number who play the games.) Hell many people don't even use American indy guys outside of ROH, DGUSA and maybe PWG guys.

I'd assume more people care about "Mexican and Japanese guys" than Australian and European, particularly as Mexico is an active game area in EWR.

These three posts here are why I'm reluctant to remove workers... Different people play EWR different ways. It's easy to say "Nobody cares about the Mexican workers," if YOU don't care about them... But, the minute I cut your favorite indy Aussie wrestler because someone else said "Nobody cares about the Australian workers," you'd be complaining.

In short, it's easy to suggest cutting someone or something (such as a worker or promotion) when you don't use it... But, someone else might think the same about your favorite worker/promotion.

I admit it was flippant, but given that we've got someone saying lose a load of Mexican and Japanese guys, and Skummy saying the opposite, and there really isn't that much of an issue with database size is it not worth keeping the low overness guys for Backyard to Global games since its not going to affect those doing higher level promotions whatsoever?

That's a very valid point, however, does there need to be 3,000 wrestlers available for one backyard to global promotion?

These two quotes highlight it again... While one player might not care if some of the "3000 wrestlers" are cut because they don't use them, another player might use the same ones that the first player doesn't care about and vice versa.

Again, I agree that some workers can probably go... I've actually been removing some here and there and nobody's had a complaint as of yet. But, the minute I cut a worker, staff member, or promotion that a player uses, I'd about bet that I'm gonna get the "Why'd you cut (wrestler X)?" I use him all the time!!!

Well, for one startup logic point:

Using the "Ryan Wood" example- he's not a Non-Wrestler in the game [ so this example should be reprieved at the moment], but he's in at 10 over. 10 overness is a fair cutoff line to start with.

Using under 10 over Non-Wrestlers in-game, you get 69 wrestlers:

Anthony Franco, Axl Law, Big John O'Malley, Bino Gambino, BPA Barry, Brandon Hill, Brandon Prophet, Brian the Guppie, Brittany Summers, Caffeine Bean, Chance Romance, Cheex, Christine LeMaster, Corey Blaze, Destiny, Destiny WSU, Dino Winwood, DJ Skittlez, Dr. Hurtz, Duke Durrango, Echelon, Eric Extreme, Fire Angel, Frank Cullen, Fugo Fugo Yumeji, Fuuka, Fuyuki Takahashi, Gemini, Hiroshi Nagao, Ice Cold, Jacklyn Hyde, Jane Blond, Jay Charismo, Jenelle Sinclair, Jennifer Bancalum, Jimmy Turner, John Howarth, John Johnson, Jolly Roger, Katsuhiko Nagata, Kazunobu Nakamura, Kriss Sprules, Kristy Kiss, Lupin Matsutani, Mack Johnson, Mason Hunter, Melissa Stripes, Mike Sato, Morty Lipschitz, Naomi Susan, Raj Ghosh, Razor Rivera, Rob Dimension, Rush Margera, Ruy Batello, Shayla, Shinsuke Z Yamagasa, Smash Bradley, Sofy, Steve the Teacher, Takashi Uwano, Tara Bush, Tatsushi Yamaguchi, The Disciplinarian, Tommy Combat, Tommy Knoxville, Tyler Mane, Vince Vicallo, Wayne.

Cutting down the list to find the most necessary names there:

Eliminating the big ones, the ones currently working for a promotion in the game, you reprieve: Corey Blaze [ECWA], John Johnson [AW], Katsuhiko Nagata [New Japan] and Morty Lipschitz [CWFH].

Eliminate the people who have Announcer ticked [the most reasonable Non-Wrestlers to keep so they can be color commentators], you reprieve Brian the Guppie and Mack Johnson.

Eliminate the people who had recognizable runs for some major, recognizable promotion at some point, you reprieve: Anthony Franco/Smash Bradley [ROH], Cheex [TNA], DJ Skittlez/Jolly Roger [CHIKARA], Ice Cold/Jacklyn Hyde/Jane Blond/The Disciplinarian [WOW], Jay Charismo [iWS], and Tyler Mane [WCW]

Eliminate the person most of EWB would whine if we don't get a chance to have him clobbered in the game, we keep Kriss Sprules

And if you say, "Well, we need commissioners/backstage interviewers for BY2G? Fair enough. Using a fair cutoff point of 60 charisma [reasonable for a good Non-Wrestling role] in, you can reprieve: Axl Law, BPA Barry, Brandon Prophet, Brittany Summers, Lupin Matsutani, Razor Rivera, Rush Margera, Sofy, Tara Bush, and Vince Vicallo.

Take those reprieves out of the way, you're still left with 41 non-wrestling under 10-over people:

Big John O'Malley, Brandon Hill, Bino Gambino, Caffeine Bean, Chance Romance, Christine LeMaster, Destiny, Destiny WSU, Dino Winwood, Dr. Hurtz, Duke Durrango, Echelon, Eric Extreme, Fire Angel, Frank Cullen, Fugo Fugo Yumeji, Fuuka, Fuyuki Takahashi, Gemini, Hiroshi Nagao, Jenelle Sinclair, Jennifer Bancalum, Jimmy Turner, John Howarth, Kazunobu Nakamura, Kristy Kiss, Mason Hunter, Melissa Stripes, Mike Sato, Naomi Susan, Raj Ghosh, Rob Dimension, Ruy Batello, Shayla, Shinsuke Z Yamagasa, Steve the Teacher, Takashi Uwano, Tatsushi Yamaguchi, Tommy Combat, Tommy Knoxville, Wayne.

Wouldn't that be a fair start?

In theory, sure... And, it might be a way to go. The problem is, using the in-game stats (such as 60 charisma) as cutoff points could become an issue. Looking at your list, I personally know who the following are: Christine LeMaster (was offered a WWE DEV deal), Destiny WSU (Ring announcer for WSU and I beleive valets as well), Jenelle Sinclair (HWA), Jennifer Bancalum (WCW Nitro Girl), Kristy Kiss (WEW and also worked for JAPW, among others) and Melissa Stripes (Wrestled for CZW, JAPW, WSU, among others).

On the other hand, I have no idea who Sofy is, nor can I find any info on her... But, she gets a reprieve, simply because her entered charisma is over 60...

I'm not even saying keep all of the ones I know... I'm simply saying that you're keeping one worker who I know nothing about while cutting six that I do know about, just because whoever entered that worker (she was in the database before I started my updates) gave her a charisma higher than 60.

No, that's why I think Reflecto is onto something with his post. Keeping a handful of those types at different ranges and mass dumping the rest would be a great idea.

Until, for some reason, one of the "mass dumpings" includes a worker or two that you like having in the game... I liken this a bit to the whole "sequestration" thing... Nobody minds the cuts, until the cuts hit them personally.

I'll make some notes on Tag Teams and Staff later, but I will say that I have always classified ring announcers as "Production" and not "Announcers."

-Bill

Edited November 15, 2013 by Bill1996

[Colly]

I think the tricky thing there though is that when the game came out the WWE was just one entity, there hadn't yet been a brand split and there was no NXT. Because of that the game doesn't need the dozens of staff members who are listed at WWE for completeness, whereas if you were playing as WWE and didn't have say William Regal you'd be steaming.

Agree on the ring announcers thing though, why bother? Why aren't cameramen listed...

The original data has the brand split and is the reason there is a brand split function in the game the first place iirc.

True, but the game was released in June 2002, this means about 2/3 months after the Brand Split occured, so I doubt too much time and thought, late in the development process was put in to the mechanics of this.

Your point is moot though, as although Colly's background information is a little off, he is right that the games doesn't need that amount of staff, hence the discussion.

The 'brand split' option appeared in one of the last actual updates to the software didn't it, and pretty much just acted as a filter for the show screens so you picked the right people? Computer controlled WWE still didn't keep enough guys for two or three separate rosters.

[Skummy]

"She's a Nitro Girl" isn't a strong defence to keep her in, though, is it? She had a largely anonymous non-wrestling role for a defunct wrestling promotion more than a decade ago. That's exactly the sort of person that we should be looking at removing.

[Reflecto Is My Favorite Poster]

OK, went through and made some notes:

-People who are in a performing role, but do not wrestle regularly, on a pro wrestling broadcast.

I would have all of these people get converted into Managers- which would fit their role better in EWR:

Jerry Lawler doesn't wrestle on RAW regularly... I certainly wouldn't qualify him as a "manager," though.

That makes sense- but having said that. The issue for announcers has other differences. Jerry Lawler is a color commentator and part-time wrestler, so he doesn't work in the role. Having said that, though, there is a world of difference between, say, Jerry Lawler in the Wrestlers list[who is at least a part-time wrestler] and, say, Mike Adamle on the Wrestlers' list [failed announcer, spent a brief time for a couple months as GM of Raw, and will likely never appear as a GM again] who should be moved back to Announcers- or a difference between Lawler and Michael Cole [had a brief, one-off run as a in-ring competitor and will probably never appear as a wrestler again] or Don West [basically a color man who spent a brief period as manager of Amazing Red].

The announcer/wrestlers do need to be worked on for this reason- using the ring announcer argument now- BECAUSE these problems do play a distinct role in the actual game. If Howard Finkel or Tony Chimel's in the game as an announcer or production- it doesn't really effect anything in the game. However, if you put an announcer into the wrestlers' roster, then you suddenly have a genuine issue with the game's realism because now, the EWR engine means that that performer can only be used as a color commentator (and this IS a blatant problem- right now, considering that rule, none of the Raw or Smackdown commentary team would be able to used as Play-by-play announcers because of the rule [using the Lawler example and taken to its extreme- JBL, Lawler, and Cole would all fit as Non-Wrestlers, plus Josh Mathews for the next one down.]

In theory, sure... And, it might be a way to go. The problem is, using the in-game stats (such as 60 charisma) as cutoff points could become an issue. Looking at your list, I personally know who the following are: Christine LeMaster (was offered a WWE DEV deal), Destiny WSU (Ring announcer for WSU and I beleive valets as well), Jenelle Sinclair (HWA), Jennifer Bancalum (WCW Nitro Girl), Kristy Kiss (WEW and also worked for JAPW, among others) and Melissa Stripes (Wrestled for CZW, JAPW, WSU, among others).

On the other hand, I have no idea who Sofy is, nor can I find any info on her... But, she gets a reprieve, simply because her entered charisma is over 60...

I'm not even saying keep all of the ones I know... I'm simply saying that you're keeping one worker who I know nothing about while cutting six that I do know about, just because whoever entered that worker (she was in the database before I started my updates) gave her a charisma higher than 60.

I was just using the 60 charisma point as an example. If Sofy has less information, but had higher charisma, in her example, then that' should put her on the chopping block, of course. Having said that, however, going back to Skummy's post...

"She's a Nitro Girl" isn't a strong defence to keep her in, though, is it? She had a largely anonymous non-wrestling role for a defunct wrestling promotion more than a decade ago. That's exactly the sort of person that we should be looking at removing.

[mkpunk]

"She's a Nitro Girl" isn't a strong defence to keep her in, though, is it? She had a largely anonymous non-wrestling role for a defunct wrestling promotion more than a decade ago. That's exactly the sort of person that we should be looking at removing.

Exactly, only a handful of Nitro Girls have had actual tie-ins to angles vs. say the TNA girls who many were workers for other indy promotions.

This is based on the Wikipedia entry for The Nitro Girls

AC Jazz feuded with Spice over leadership of the group remove?

Baby managed Kanyon during his Champagne gimmick.

Chae (Ann) really didn't do much other than dance so remove.

Chameleon managed Kanyon during his Champagne gimmick before becoming Miss Jones, The Cat's assistant.

Chiquita didn't really do much other than dance so remove.

Fyre didn't really do much other than dance so remove.

Gold & Silver (The Klimaszewski twins) didn't really do much other than dance so remove.

Kimberly (Page), yeah she's safe in the game due to her angles over the years.

Naughty-A didn't really do much so remove

Skye (Stacy Keibler), yeah she's safe in the game due to her prolonged stay in wrestling.

Spice didn't really do much other feud with AC Jazz (and later Tygress when Jazz left) over leadership of the Nitro girls, remove?

Storm (Sharmell Sullivan), yeah she's safe due to her stay in WWE.

Syren was used in angles but I don't think she's in the game.

Tayo Reed didn't really do much other than dance so remove.

Tygress was used fairly regularly until the close of WCW notably as the valet for The Filthy Animals.

Whisper is Shawn Michaels' wife but she only was seen on WWE tv when Jericho slapped her at SummerSlam 08 so I am not sure if she should be removed.

[mkpunk]

I think the tricky thing there though is that when the game came out the WWE was just one entity, there hadn't yet been a brand split and there was no NXT. Because of that the game doesn't need the dozens of staff members who are listed at WWE for completeness, whereas if you were playing as WWE and didn't have say William Regal you'd be steaming.

Agree on the ring announcers thing though, why bother? Why aren't cameramen listed...

The original data has the brand split and is the reason there is a brand split function in the game the first place iirc.

True, but the game was released in June 2002, this means about 2/3 months after the Brand Split occured, so I doubt too much time and thought, late in the development process was put in to the mechanics of this.

Your point is moot though, as although Colly's background information is a little off, he is right that the games doesn't need that amount of staff, hence the discussion.

The 'brand split' option appeared in one of the last actual updates to the software didn't it, and pretty much just acted as a filter for the show screens so you picked the right people? Computer controlled WWE still didn't keep enough guys for two or three separate rosters.

It's more of a user tool to make things easier. Say if you ran WWE pre 2012 you could chose to run WWE with just RAW or SmackDown rosters or a mixed roster.

[arwrestling]

Suggestion.... Rather than telling Bill that he's wrong and he has a problem... maybe you guys should make your own data... release it monthly and deal with all the suggestions everyone else gives.

Fact is, it is his data and he will "clog it up" as he sees fit, and personally I agree with Bill and his method which is why I choose to use his data.

Simple solution... And I am really hoping, for his own sake, that Bill reflects on this and possibly stop posting monthly updates for people that clearly don't give a shit.

[Lineker]

Suggestion.... Rather than telling Bill that he's wrong and he has a problem... maybe you guys should make your own data... release it monthly and deal with all the suggestions everyone else gives.

Or, alternatively (and I'm just floating this by you), Bill can take this as constructive criticism and do with it what he wishes, and you can stop being an absolute dolt.

[Nerf]

Simple solution... And I am really hoping, for his own sake, that Bill reflects on this and possibly stop posting monthly updates for people that clearly don't give a shit.

Surely the fact that we're suggesting ways to improve his data kind of proves that we do give a shit?

[Sousa]

I for one am never going to get tired of explaining the basic premise of this fucking thread over and over, but once again, it's a set of best practices, not an effort to shit on Bill's head.

[TheWho87]

But then again it would be more interesting to see some of these concepts in practice, as I suggested in here before, somebody should take Bill's latest update and implement some of the suggesgions and then seeing how the game plays out rather than "lets make suggesgions and wait till Bill makes changes" to see how things may work.

[Kaney]

Suggestion.... Rather than telling Bill that he's wrong and he has a problem... maybe you guys should make your own data... release it monthly and deal with all the suggestions everyone else gives.

Fact is, it is his data and he will "clog it up" as he sees fit, and personally I agree with Bill and his method which is why I choose to use his data.

Simple solution... And I am really hoping, for his own sake, that Bill reflects on this and possibly stop posting monthly updates for people that clearly don't give a shit.

Did you miss the part where c-heat stated in no uncertain terms that this thread is not about Bill? Or when Sousa did? Several times you've been told this thread is to discuss the implications and mechanics of the gameplay not about Bills specific stat updates.

I have nothing against Bill at all, so I hope he doesn't take offence to this but you guys need to get the fuck off his dick. This isn't Bills EWB, he isn't a mod or admin and he doesn't run this place. It's awesome he gives up his own time to provide these updates but he's not immune to discourse or criticism. If people want to discuss ewr, wether they play it or not, they're entitled.

So I'll say it one last time. Stop stirring shit up around here, Bill can take whatever suggestions he wants and that's totally up to him, but you, specifically arwrestling, stop dragging this horrible argument back up all the fucking time.

[Nerf]

DEATH BY EXILE

[IDOL]

Nerf, there is seriously no need to reply like that.

[Nerf]

But throwing needless and unwarranted insults around is okay? I know which side of the fence you're on here, Idol, but let's keep tabs on who's trying to be constructive for the most part here and who isn't.

[Sousa]

But throwing needless and unwarranted insults around is okay?

Kaney said it wasn't, so obviously it isn't, and Idol has already tried to steer the conversation back towards being constructive and away from Bill being put on the cross. If you're perceiving this as a battle of "sides" (and you're not the only one) then you're doing it wrong.

[IDOL]

Seriously, no need to get personal about anything. Kaney dealt with the situation, there was no need for it to not just be left at that. Back to the topic at hand...

[Hornswoggle4PM]

Firstly, some notes on what Bill said

Yeah, I'd agree with this. Obviously it's something to look at on a case-by-case basis, but if they're not likely to show up, remove them.

The argument that you'd have to create their stats all over again doesn't really carry much weight when that takes all of, what, a minute or two? It's not like worker's stats in EWR are particularly detailed, and it'll be a rare occurence that you'd have to do it anyway, as I doubt we'll see 100 people come out of retirement in a single month any time soon.

It comes down to the central point of this thread - what's more important to people, size or functionality? Do we want a huge database full of guys you probably won't ever use, or have never heard of, or one that plays well and is tailored around the gameplay mechanics rather than being exhaustive?

It's also easy to say that "The argument that you'd have to create their stats all over again doesn't really carry much weight" when you're not the one having to enter, delete and re-enter all of the information. Keep in mind, entering a worker isn't just brawl, speed, tech, etc. It's alter egos, tag teams, relationships, etc.

The problem with "Guys you probably won't ever use, or have never heard of" is that different people play the game different ways. A guy you might "never use" or "have never heard of" might be a common choice for someone else to add to their roster.

I believe I came up with an easy solution for the creating stats all over again part earlier. We can just create a list of people deleted each update so instead of creating them again from scratch, we can go to the most recent update with them included and simply copy the data over.

Your second statement here is what I was trying to put across earlier too, but there were some minor issues that were pointed out with doing this for some workers.

There are people and probably federations that are likely not needed at all.

I don't think many people really care about the Mexican or Japanese guys (I would include Australian and European but I know there are a good number who play the games.) Hell many people don't even use American indy guys outside of ROH, DGUSA and maybe PWG guys.

I'd assume more people care about "Mexican and Japanese guys" than Australian and European, particularly as Mexico is an active game area in EWR.

These three posts here are why I'm reluctant to remove workers... Different people play EWR different ways. It's easy to say "Nobody cares about the Mexican workers," if YOU don't care about them... But, the minute I cut your favorite indy Aussie wrestler because someone else said "Nobody cares about the Australian workers," you'd be complaining.

In short, it's easy to suggest cutting someone or something (such as a worker or promotion) when you don't use it... But, someone else might think the same about your favorite worker/promotion.

Another point I was intending to post but not sure if I did. Agreed again, but the point raised of EWR being a North-American simulator, therefore preference should be shown to American, Canadian and Mexican workers was a very good one. Not sure if I explained that very well

I admit it was flippant, but given that we've got someone saying lose a load of Mexican and Japanese guys, and Skummy saying the opposite, and there really isn't that much of an issue with database size is it not worth keeping the low overness guys for Backyard to Global games since its not going to affect those doing higher level promotions whatsoever?

That's a very valid point, however, does there need to be 3,000 wrestlers available for one backyard to global promotion?

These two quotes highlight it again... While one player might not care if some of the "3000 wrestlers" are cut because they don't use them, another player might use the same ones that the first player doesn't care about and vice versa.

Again, I agree that some workers can probably go... I've actually been removing some here and there and nobody's had a complaint as of yet. But, the minute I cut a worker, staff member, or promotion that a player uses, I'd about bet that I'm gonna get the "Why'd you cut (wrestler X)?" I use him all the time!!!

This I believe is where some people were suggesting earlier that unless there are complaints that "I use Worker X" by a significant amount of people (not sure how to judge that) then the one or two complaining can be given the responsibility of adding those workers in for themselves after downloading the update.

Well, for one startup logic point:

Using the "Ryan Wood" example- he's not a Non-Wrestler in the game [ so this example should be reprieved at the moment], but he's in at 10 over. 10 overness is a fair cutoff line to start with.

Using under 10 over Non-Wrestlers in-game, you get 69 wrestlers:

Cutting down the list to find the most necessary names there:

Eliminating the big ones, the ones currently working for a promotion in the game

Eliminate the people who have Announcer ticked [the most reasonable Non-Wrestlers to keep so they can be color commentators]

Eliminate the people who had recognizable runs for some major, recognizable promotion at some point

Eliminate the person most of EWB would whine if we don't get a chance to have him clobbered in the game, we keep Kriss Sprules

And if you say, "Well, we need commissioners/backstage interviewers for BY2G? Fair enough. Using a fair cutoff point of 60 charisma [reasonable for a good Non-Wrestling role] in, you can reprieve: Axl Law, BPA Barry, Brandon Prophet, Brittany Summers, Lupin Matsutani, Razor Rivera, Rush Margera, Sofy, Tara Bush, and Vince Vicallo.

Take those reprieves out of the way, you're still left with 41 non-wrestling under 10-over people

Wouldn't that be a fair start?

In theory, sure... And, it might be a way to go. The problem is, using the in-game stats (such as 60 charisma) as cutoff points could become an issue. Looking at your list, I personally know who the following are: Christine LeMaster (was offered a WWE DEV deal), Destiny WSU (Ring announcer for WSU and I beleive valets as well), Jenelle Sinclair (HWA), Jennifer Bancalum (WCW Nitro Girl), Kristy Kiss (WEW and also worked for JAPW, among others) and Melissa Stripes (Wrestled for CZW, JAPW, WSU, among others).

On the other hand, I have no idea who Sofy is, nor can I find any info on her... But, she gets a reprieve, simply because her entered charisma is over 60...

I'm not even saying keep all of the ones I know... I'm simply saying that you're keeping one worker who I know nothing about while cutting six that I do know about, just because whoever entered that worker (she was in the database before I started my updates) gave her a charisma higher than 60.

This is why I think doing it purely by criteria isn't a good idea. Instead, people who we are unable to find enough info for are much better candidates for deletion, which is I think what you're getting at here.

Also a good point made about the Nitro Girls, when I noticed they were in EWR I was a bit surprised as most would have entirely left wrestling or should at least have lower overness than they do. More people who can (I think) be safely deleted amongst them.

Edited November 16, 2013 by Hornswoggle4PM

[Azazel]

If the data is as of November 2013, I don't get why people are so hesitant to delete people that haven't wrestled in years. An indy wrestlers that hasn't be active in many years is super unlikely to return, if they do return, it's even less likely that they would do anything of note to worth being reentered into the data.

Further more, the argument that some people might like to use them is kind of weak since there are literally thousands of options. Complaining that you cannot use The Hardcore Ninjaz in a 2013 mod is silly since they haven't been active wrestlers in years and they are probably going off of the name/stats alone. There is guarantee to be someone with similar stats and changing a name isn't hard.