WWE 2K23

[METALMAN]

oh so it's like that WWF Attitude game? That was a bad game. If you go way back the main reason the Smackdown games stuck around while all the others faded away was because of their simplicity and the fact you could just press a couple of buttons to do a move on demand.

[apsham]

That's not what this is at all though? This is the combo system that current exists - where it's a bunch of strikes that would lead up to a certain move at the end. It's not the Attitude/Warzone series of inputs that you would do to just perform a series of moves, each button press is going to be an attack leading up to the big move at the end.

This is just an expanded version of that - IIRC, most of these combos just had 1 or 2 variations and they'd almost always just end with a heavy strike. This has been in this line of games going back since the original Smackdown, they just have more ways to end now.

It's in essence the kind of thing you're not going to know when you pick up and play a wrestler without looking at their move set anyways. You're going to know that you can start a combo always with a light strike, and then different combinations will always lead to a move and once you've done it so many times (especially if you use the same wrestler) you'll know that 2 light strikes and a heavy strike will be an enzuguri, etc. Just like you might not know that a grapple + up is going to be a vertical suplex until you do it.

[Hellraiser]

1 hour ago, apsham said:

That's not what this is at all though? This is the combo system that current exists - where it's a bunch of strikes that would lead up to a certain move at the end. It's not the Attitude/Warzone series of inputs that you would do to just perform a series of moves, each button press is going to be an attack leading up to the big move at the end.

This is just an expanded version of that - IIRC, most of these combos just had 1 or 2 variations and they'd almost always just end with a heavy strike. This has been in this line of games going back since the original Smackdown, they just have more ways to end now.

It's in essence the kind of thing you're not going to know when you pick up and play a wrestler without looking at their move set anyways. You're going to know that you can start a combo always with a light strike, and then different combinations will always lead to a move and once you've done it so many times (especially if you use the same wrestler) you'll know that 2 light strikes and a heavy strike will be an enzuguri, etc. Just like you might not know that a grapple + up is going to be a vertical suplex until you do it.

That is not how grappling moves usually worked in the WWE games up to now. You tap the grapple button to do a front facelock, tap the grapple button + left stick into any direction for a normal grapple move and hold the grapple button + left stick into any direction for a strong grapple move. You didn't have to do a striking move to set a grapple move up or push any button multiple times. It was very intuitive and that was something I always liked about the SmackDown games and why I preferred them over most other wrestling games.

Now if this new combo system is something that you get in addition to the traditional grappling systems, I wouldn't mind it. But if it replaces the traditional systems, then I'm out. It might not be exactly as bad as the combo system for Attitude/Warzone or Nitro/Thunder, but it would still be a major step backward if you ask me. 

Edited March 4, 2022 by Hellraiser

[apsham]

5 minutes ago, Hellraiser said:

Now if this new combo system is something that you get in addition to the traditional grappling systems, I wouldn't mind it. But if it replaces the traditional systems, then I'm out. It might not be exactly as bad as the combo system for Attitude/Warzone or Nitro/Thunder, but it still would be a major step backwards. 

Naw this is not replacing the normal grapple system - it's just extending on the combo system that already existed. They've show videos of the grapples, one of the first in-depth ones that came out I think. The grapple system is actually even a simplification going back to the Smackdown vs RAW games.

Quote

WWE 2K22 Grapple System

WWE 2K22 features a new way to perform Grapples, as well as a new Combo System.

First of all, in WWE 2K22, grapples are now executed by first entering a Grapple State (lock-up) with circle / B (similarly to old Smackdown vs Raw games), and then pressing the Light or Heavy Attack button to perform a Grapple move, or circle / B again to perform an Irish Whip.

WWE 2K22 Combo System

In WWE 2K22, strikes work completely differently compared to previous games. First of all, there is now a separate button for Light and Heavy Strikes - so strong strikes are no longer executed by holding down a button.

When performing a Light Attack, you can start a series of 3 chained attacks with the new Combo System.

Combos are performed by chaining Light and Heavy Strikes, with Square & X on PlayStation, and X & A on Xbox.

Each Superstar has 30 different Combos available, and the assigned moves for each combo can be customized in Create-A-Moveset. The Pause Menu also features a full list of combos for the Superstars you're playing as.

 

[Hellraiser]

Thanks for clearing that up!

[apsham]

I think the combo system was revamped for two reasons;

1) To allow more moves to be put on a character for more variety, and to change it up from just being light attack, light attack, light attack, heavy attack (or whatever you had it set to) - if you think back to older games it'd just be The Rock's three hits followed up by the spit in his palm to finish it, or the last hit of a Shake, Rattle & Roll. There were a few moves that went into full move animations but they were few and far between.

2) To compliment the new reversal system that relies on you countering the type of hit that you're about to receive with the same button on your side.

[King Ellis]

If it's going to be a way to chain strikes into a move then that sounds like it could potentially make things look a little more realistic. I can't think of some good examples of the top of my head but the Stone Cold Stunner for example, you had older games where you'd grapple up only to immediately break it so you could kick the opponent and then do the Stunner which looked a bit stupid.

[apsham]

I'm getting my hands on this today and I will say from the only thing I've seen so far.

The tutorial is a Drew Gulak powerpoint at least, so it has that going for it.

I worked through the tutorial and have a handle on the new gameplay. This is for SURE a pretty big change and I like it quite a bit.

I was also able to get a traditional first match in before starting work today. I went with Macho Man vs. Bret Hart and I'm actually very, very impressed with this game. Everything felt good... the camera angles felt more natural, there were no frame-rate problems in fact everything moved very smoothly, the match was past paced, the combo system felt natural and both character models looked great - Macho Man hasn't looked "not bloated" for yeeeeeeeeears now.

[Bobfoc]

I didn't realise the game was this close to release.

[apsham]

23 minutes ago, Bobfoc said:

I didn't realise the game was this close to release.

It's technically out tomorrow for Deluxe version owners, but I did the New Zealand thing again to play a bit early than that even.

[Bobfoc]

I think it's surprised me because there are no reviews out yet.

[King Ellis]

It's throwing me off a bit too, I'm just used to it being released late in the year 

No reviews would be a bit worrying given that's often thought of as publishers putting an embargo in place to not ruin day 1 sales. But given that the last release had so many problems you'd think they might want reviews out in advance almost as a reassurance for people that the problems have been fixed 

[METALMAN]

Maybe nobody can be arsed to review it

[apsham]

Some reviews in progress are starting to pop up today, since the official release isn't until the end of the week I assume they'll be popping up through the week that aren't the hands-on previews that they've been putting out.

[apsham]

Just a few lunch session observations.

• I did an 8-woman battle royal, only one load time that was very fast at the start and no slowdown at all during entrances or more importantly during the match
• Clothing and other physics in entrances are greatly improved, have more texture and actually look/seem like they're on the person as they interact with hoods, sleeves, jackets, etc.
• Entrance commentary will likely get repetitive over time as it always does, but it sounds way more dynamic this time and even goes out of the way to reference when two particular wrestlers are in the same match (for instance, Asuka came out after Charlotte and they referenced this, and mentioned their history)
• Commentary in general is a lot more snappy, referencing things as they happened and went so far as to call out "a tapout with the Dis-Arm-Her but that's not going to save her in this match" - it also mentioned the wrestler's names more than just saying "she" or "they" took a move.
• Something that I somehow missed is that Universe mode gives you the ability to choose one wrestler and essentially only play their segments. That's something that is probably going to get me to play Universe more than I would normally and once the Community Creations start getting really good AEW and other wrestlers, it's going to be even better
• Community Creations are cross platform! That's a great addition.

[JasonM]

7 minutes ago, apsham said:

Something that I somehow missed is that Universe mode gives you the ability to choose one wrestler and essentially only play their segments. That's something that is probably going to get me to play Universe more than I would normally and once the Community Creations start getting really good AEW and other wrestlers, it's going to be even better

This in combination with hopefully a good career mode might get me to look at the game. Although I have heard nothing yet of whether the PC version will be on par with the console versions.

[apsham]

The Rey showcase mode is kind of neat as well. They don't do the "modern commentators in place of the original" bit that they normally do, and instead when you do certain objectives it kind of moves seamlessly from the game into video footage that Rey narrates - what he was thinking at the time, how the match is going, etc.

[tristy]

I hope this game does well, because if it doesn't, there is a real possibility that WWE moves their games over to EA and nobody wants that.

[JasonM]

Denker is pretty good on his takes on WWE games. No footage, just 10 minutes of his opinions.

[apsham]

That's a pretty good overview in general I'd say, yeah. Denk has to basically use this game for content for the next year so I can see some of his gripes about some of the modes no impacting me all that much, and hopefully some of the stuff like arenas gets sorted out by talented creators as well.

All in all, I think that the people who made this game in the day to day cared a lot about it and did indeed take a lot of feedback to fix the problems that the series had.