MMA News and Discussion Thread

[Rich]

I don't think DREAM can be the new PRIDE, but I do think they can be an alternative for fighters, thats what I want to see, 3 or 4 other promotions around the world where fighters can work and make money without having to work for Zuffa.

I am not, and would never make out that Zuffa are evil, but I like the idea of there being alternatives where big fights can take place and can then allow us to effectively debate about which fighters are better in each organisation, almost matching the "what if x went to WCW/WWF?" during the Monday night wars, feeling, where one can get legit excited and passionate about fighters around the world, we are starting to see it with Strikeforce, and DREAM to a lesser extenet, but it'd be nice to see Bellator and maybeone more gain momentum and start to rival UFC in terms of quality of fighters/fights if not entirely in financial terms (though I appreciate the inherent, heavy link between the two).

I dunno, maybe I am just making mountains out of mole hills, or I am being a bit too sentimental, but it would be nice.

You would then have at least one big card almost every week

[Enter Blue Guy]

I share your sentiment but it is no secret the brains behind the UFC are ruthless when it comes to stifling any potential American based competition.

I really like what Bellator are doing. I don't really follow their progress closely, aside from the fights, so I don't know how healthy they really are, but it seems like they've got a pretty good thing going on. They know their role as a promotion, they are on TV, and haven't stepped on Dana White's toes.

Strikeforce is in a very awkward position. They have no depth chart. What you see is more or less what you are going to get next time. They are in no shape to do otherwise. Crossing their fingers for Gina Carano to get back into the cage, ASAP.

Japan is Japan.

Realistically, there isn't much an MMA market out there outside of the UFC. MMA is UFC. It's the go-to brand. Their stranglehold is ridiculous and I can't them letting go any time soon. IMO, If anything, just like the UFC brought MMA to life, it will die with it too.

Edited July 17, 2010 by Enter Blue Guy

[Quom]

I don't understand from a fans perspective why you would want 4 or 4 top promotions. I would rather have all the top fighters in the one org. Or split the top fighters in each weight class into separate orgs. I don't really want to be in a position as a fan left wondering if the guys from Dream would be up to challenging fighters in UFC or whatever. Either that or you would need something to seriously differentiate your product. Pride was good because of the extra ground striking and yellow cards as it offered a nice difference to the unified rules. I guess if you really got the refs to crack down on lay and pray, but differentiating that from wearing a guy down for a sub is difficult.

Of course from a fighters perspective the reverse is true. Having a number of successful orgs will boost their pay or allow them to move around if they don't find success in an org. Fortunately I'm not a fighter so it doesn't matter to me.

I also think Dream are silly saying they want to challenge and take fans from UFC and WWE. From my perspective a respectful collaborative approach is the only way any org is going to grow. You can't run a successful business model out of the belief you can take fans away from another organisation. MMA fans will watch both. Casual fans are casual fans, they aren't necessarily UFC or WWE fans. Instead they are people who latch on to a particular fighter or match up. You can't really 'steal' these fans. You can entice them to watch your product by offering the fighters or matches they want. But it has nothing to do with WWE or UFC. Dream really needs to focus on their own issues before they try and get anybody who isn't an MMA fan watching. With Sengoku nearing collapse they can consolidate the Japanese MMA scene. They then need to focus on finding and developing some depth. Or finding a big enough name willing to jump into a freak match against an MMA fighter. I'm talking a big name pro wrestler or a top athlete not a washed up 40 year old looking to make a quick buck. I think athletes and wrestlers are now savvy to how impossible it is to beat an MMA fighter so I can't see it happening. The closest it may come is if they could set up the Mayweather Anderson Silva fight on a NYE show. But even that has greater appeal to a Western base than a Japanese base. I think the biggest issue in Japan is a lack of emerging talent. Even the names they try and build up and look like they could be the goods lose matches they need to win. Or go to America and get the shit kicked out of them.

Edited July 18, 2010 by QuomQuat

[Rich]

They want to take fans from the UFC and WWE in Asia, before they become UFC or WWE fans, they want to be the organisation for casuals in that region.

Having one organisatiion is as bad as having lots from my perspective. One org. means lack of variety and they give you the product they want you to see, not neccesarily the best product for you. Having multiple orgs means variety and a healthy amount of fan intrigue and discussion, gives fighters options and flexibility. However several top orgs means that we could get a scenario like in Boxing where we have 4 different world champions recognised by different sanctioning bodies. This si a little different in MMA due to the level of branding at events where you know its a Strikeforce/UFC/whatever card rather than just a boxing card with a title from some sort of organisation up for grabs.

To be honest DREAM need to carry on as they are with a steady build throughout. Theyt need to bring in the smaller guys who are good and there are lots of them in Japan, using organisations like Shooto and DEEP as almost feeder leagues for the lower weight classes, they need to troll the world for untapped, exciting talent, and not throw their talented fighters from singular disciplines (i.e Judo) in at the deepend, facing veterans and world class MMA competitors before they have a chance to learn the full game and develop their well roundedness. You have to think DREAM is 2 and a half years old and has now held upwards of 15 cards. PRIDE in 2 and a half years ahd held only 9 events, their top native fighter Nobuhiko Takada had just lost twice to Rickson Gracie and their next big star was only just developing in Sakuraba, it'll take time, but having the cash behind them could entice larger name and even better fighters to the company, giving us exciting fights in Japan all the more. DREAM rarely disappoint me with their cards, and now is the chance for them to grow their solid foundation and try to move towards their next level, hell if Mizuno beats Mousasi then we could see a new Japanese MMA star being born.

[Guest Mr. Potato Head]

If DREAM really wants to be successful in Japan, they need to further isolate themselves so that their top stars stop being exposed by American midcarders. Keep control over as many of their fighters as possible for as long as possible.

[Guest Mr. Potato Head]

Kenny

[Powerhart]

Dream's expansion plan.

[Quom]

This isn't the era of Pride. That time is past. Fans are now established. You aren't going to drag Eastern MMA viewers in with mismatches, nor are you going to establish and maintain your brand by allowing talent to fight regularly in other orgs. Jacare, Mousasi, Alverez, Mayhem etc should have been locked in tight and the fights Western MMA fans wanted should have been happening in Japan. Why send Aoki to fight Melendez in America? So they could have Diaz vs. Inoue? Hardly seems to make sense. Even if Aoki won it doesn't necessarily help Dream huge long term, it helps Aoki (unless Dream have him locked up tight and he can't jump ship).

At the moment sharing talent really isn't helping either promotion (but may be keeping them alive) half the fights Dream wants to put on or should be putting on fall through because the fighters are busy in Strikeforce and vice versa. I think it's too difficult to build a promotion around fighters who can take fights in other organisations. Your roster is your brand, sharing it is either giving another brand recognition by having their fighter defeat yours, or harming the other brand by your fighter exposing theirs. I get they want Japanese fighter to defeat the evil gaijin but it doesn't work too well when the gaijin easily defeats your champion.

Either there is a lack of true MMA talent or the smaller orgs (besides Bellator) are too busy doing other things to bother trying to establish new talent regularly enough. Dream at the moment can't break new stars. Good luck doing it when you are trying to do the same thing in four territories at once. The talent pool just isn't deep enough. Either you hire third rate fighters only. Or you end up with a few good fighters fighting cans.

Edited July 18, 2010 by QuomQuat

[Rich]

Just started to watch Sakuraba vs Royce Gracie from the Pride Openweight GP finals again, I'll get back to you when I am done

[Rich]

Had to have a break in the middle for lunch, the fight is a lot better than I remember, especially for a 90minute affair

[Guest Mr. Potato Head]

Apparently there's basically a female version of Ultimate Fighter starting on NBC in the fall, hosted by Bas Rutten.

[Powerhart]

FUCK!

Edited July 18, 2010 by Powerhart

[legendonline]

Apparently there's basically a female version of Ultimate Fighter starting on NBC in the fall, hosted by Bas Rutten.

Oh god, I am going to watch this just for the trainwreck that this is going to be.. NBC.. Women.. Reality TV.. Cage Fighting and combine that with NBC and their ability to make anything they do [minus the Office and Chuck] utterly painful to watch.

[Captain Kirk]

Apparently there's basically a female version of Ultimate Fighter starting on NBC in the fall, hosted by Bas Rutten.

Oh god, I am going to watch this just for the trainwreck that this is going to be.. NBC.. Women.. Reality TV.. Cage Fighting and combine that with NBC and their ability to make anything they do [minus the Office and Chuck] utterly painful to watch.

and for Bas Rutten of course!

[Rich]

LIVER KICK~!

[tristy]

Am I the only one that watched Strikeforce Challengers 9 last night? I thought it was the women's tournament, so I watched by accident But, it was an okay show actually. Kaufman's slam on Modaferri was pretty sweet, but I don't think it KO'd her. At first they said it didn't and the graphic said winner by TKO, but Jimmy then announced it as a KO. And I guess it's officially on her record as a KO win now. But, anyways, it was shades of the Rampage/Arona, just by women and little more sloppy looking.

And Del Rosario's win over Mahe... alittle underwhelming. Mahe pulling the Varner card and saying one of Rosario's knees hit his groin (Quadros even said it was a midsection hit), then the TKO by "strikes", if you can call it that. None of those punches landed that Shane threw after that big knee to the face against the cage.

This is all very funny if you watched Inside MMA an hour (maybe directly opposed) to the Challengers card. They were discussing intentional/unintentional nutshots in the cage. I think Mahe was watching!

Oh yeah, post match interview, Shane says he's over the Lashley fight, and wants to go after Andre Arlovski.

[Guest Mr. Potato Head]

I watched the Kaufman and Del Rosario fights this morning. Good stuff.

[GhostMachine]

James Toney has apparently signed a 3 fight deal with UFC, and he's going to fight Randy Couture in August. The deal lets Toney opt out if Toney loses the fight, but he's said he wants to stick it out if (more like when - Couture is going to kill him) that happens.

[Rich]

James Toney has apparently signed a 3 fight deal with UFC, and he's going to fight Randy Couture in August. The deal lets Toney opt out if Toney loses the fight, but he's said he wants to stick it out if (more like when - Couture is going to kill him) that happens.

Welcome to May 2010 (Y)

[GhostMachine]

James Toney has apparently signed a 3 fight deal with UFC, and he's going to fight Randy Couture in August. The deal lets Toney opt out if Toney loses the fight, but he's said he wants to stick it out if (more like when - Couture is going to kill him) that happens.

Welcome to May 2010 (Y)

Blame it on my local paper. They never had a story about it before today and I frankly don't care about Boxing anymore because it needs some serious reforms.