Rich Posted January 29, 2012 Report Share Posted January 29, 2012 I really really do not agree with the "Smartly booked" comment, he has faced and beaten guys who have been in the UFC contender mix in Leben and Dan Miller, apparently stood no chance against Mayhem and destroyed him, beat Akiyama handily, narrowly lost to former number one 205er and pound for pound great Wanderlei Silva, beat the former number three 185er in Denis Kang, beat Matt Hamill as an undersized 205er, narrowly lost to Rashad as an undersized 205er, and just lost narrowly to Chael Soennen. Yet Chael Sonnen is the second coming despite losing to Maia, Babalu, Forrest, Filho, Horn (twice), amongst others. I know MMA math is never accurate, but people blindly believing Bisping to not be an elite middleweight despite evidence to the contrary, just because you do not like him is something I thought a lot of you were above. I mean I don't like Rashad, but I accept he is probably number 2 light heavyweight in the world, and Bisping is certainly in the top 5 middleweights in the world. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRN Posted January 29, 2012 Report Share Posted January 29, 2012 Chris Leben is shit. Everyone knows this. He is the equivalent of a zombie and he punches hard. That's it. When Dan Miller faced Bisping, he had just lot to both Chael Sonnen and Demian Maia. I'll give you Jason Miller but that was mostly because Jason Miller did not take the fight seriously at all; I wouldn't surprise me if he even trained for the fight. The Wanderlei Silva Bisping faced was a shadow of a shadow of the 205 pound for pound great that once was and he still lost. See where I am going here? It is exactly like Frank Mir's record, it is a brilliant product of UFC's hype machine and his own fast-talking. I admit that Bisping is very very good at making himself relevant but when it comes down to it, he will always just be there in the middleweight division. He will be a guy who is almost there but never will be there. But he sells loads and loads of tickets in the UK and he has the ability to the beat the guys he needs to in order to keep his job. If it brings you any comfort, I hate Frank Mir more than Bisping because, in his case, it is even worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted January 29, 2012 Report Share Posted January 29, 2012 Oh wait, Sonnen lost to Jeremy Horn three times... The one that you mention that annoys me the most is the Mayhem excuse, maybe it wasn't that Mayhem didn't turn up to the fight. Maybe Bisping is just that good he made Mayhem look that weak. And SRN, name me 5 better 185ers than Bisping, I accept Sonnen, Munoz and Anderson, but there are not 2 more people better than him, Weidman is not, Maia is not after last night. Just because you can look at his fight record and now poo-poo the opponents doesn't mean that the fights were not relevant at the time. Bisping has done incredibly well in the UFC, and deserves plaudits he rarely gets because of the amounts of detractors he has as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mr. potato head Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 I don't think anybody thinks Sonnen's actually a good fighter. He's maybe a bit above average, but a strong talker and he happens to match up well stylistically against Anderson Silva. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plubby Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 I believe everything Chael Sonnen tells me and would like him to sell my house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mr. potato head Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 How about if he doesn't sell your house but exchanges it for a three-acre plot on the moon that's totally gonna shoot up in value once they build that moon base everyone's talking about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plubby Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 I've always wanted to live on the moon! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thrilla Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Chael's closing line in this is brilliant. http://www.ufc.com/media/fox2-chael-post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apsham Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Holy crap - I totally forgot about the Sonnen fight. Damn, wish I would've remembered. I only like watching most stuff like this live. I was totally coming around on my opinion of Bisping too... and no shock to me about Rashad picking up the victory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thrilla Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Rashad was dominant as well, I thought he'd win but I thought it would be more of a fight. It wasn't a good enough performance to make me think he'll beat Bones Jones but it'll be a much closer match that I originally had it down as. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRN Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Oh wait, Sonnen lost to Jeremy Horn three times... The one that you mention that annoys me the most is the Mayhem excuse, maybe it wasn't that Mayhem didn't turn up to the fight. Maybe Bisping is just that good he made Mayhem look that weak. And SRN, name me 5 better 185ers than Bisping, I accept Sonnen, Munoz and Anderson, but there are not 2 more people better than him, Weidman is not, Maia is not after last night. Just because you can look at his fight record and now poo-poo the opponents doesn't mean that the fights were not relevant at the time. Bisping has done incredibly well in the UFC, and deserves plaudits he rarely gets because of the amounts of detractors he has as well. But that is what I am saying! He does do incredibly well for himself but that is on the back of Joe Silva being a great booker and Bisping being a great seller, not because he is an elite fighter. And if we are going to namedrop, I'll take you three, Sonnen, Munoz, Silva, and add Belfort, Rousimar Palhares and Jason Miller (granted if he will ever take MMA seriously again). And also reiterate the fact that Bisping's fight against Chael was the best performance of his UFC career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Oh wait, Sonnen lost to Jeremy Horn three times... The one that you mention that annoys me the most is the Mayhem excuse, maybe it wasn't that Mayhem didn't turn up to the fight. Maybe Bisping is just that good he made Mayhem look that weak. And SRN, name me 5 better 185ers than Bisping, I accept Sonnen, Munoz and Anderson, but there are not 2 more people better than him, Weidman is not, Maia is not after last night. Just because you can look at his fight record and now poo-poo the opponents doesn't mean that the fights were not relevant at the time. Bisping has done incredibly well in the UFC, and deserves plaudits he rarely gets because of the amounts of detractors he has as well. But that is what I am saying! He does do incredibly well for himself but that is on the back of Joe Silva being a great booker and Bisping being a great seller, not because he is an elite fighter. And if we are going to namedrop, I'll take you three, Sonnen, Munoz, Silva, and add Belfort, Rousimar Palhares and Jason Miller (granted if he will ever take MMA seriously again). And also reiterate the fact that Bisping's fight against Chael was the best performance of his UFC career. Palhares is not better than Bisping, the guy has not taken out anyone of note, and his two big fights (Franklin and Marquardt) he lost, not looking great in either fight. Miller is not on Bisping's level, Bisping proved that in his last fight. Belfort is a good shout, but his lack of consistency worries me to this day. While I think on ocassion Bisping has been booked cleverly, he has also been booked to lose on more than one occasion and has won, thinking about Hammil, Leben and both Millers, those were fights Bisping was expected to lose and won. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRN Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 I still can't believe that you can say that Chris Leben would be a challenge to anyone. I mean, he did seem to pick up his game over the summer last year but when Bisping faced him he was little more than a mediocre boxer with a chin. And Palhares would be a challenge for Bisping, mostly because Bisping's only defense against Palhares' crazy leglocks would only be his bad wrestling, which Palhares could easily cover for because he is strong. And Palhares has a win over Dan Miller, who you said yourself is considered a big win, and Tomasz Drwal, who is a better grappler than Bisping. And Bisping only made that fight look easy because Miller had not trained at all, and on top of that, Mayhem managed to tire Bisping out in three rounds despite being vastly out of shape, something that Chael Sonnen did as well. EDIT: I meant grappler, not wrestler, with the Tomasz Drwal thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 I am sorry SRN, I disagree, Bisping's wrestling is good, he took on the best wrestler at 185 and did not look shabby in his wrestling until the third. You keep saying things that really do not make sense to me, even though there is evidence out there that contradicts what you are saying. The things you say about Leben are off-base, while he is not amazing, he has always been solid and considered in the mix at the top of the division as much as a Dan Miller has. I am finished with this discussion as I see that your dislike off Bisping clouds your judgement, and I accept you don't like the guy. But all I can see is that despite you saying that this weekend was the best you have ever seen from Bisping, you then claim him to not be an elite middleweight when he is a top 5 fighter, which I and many others including respected MMA media (I am not saying I am as knowledgeable, just pointing out plenty of people share my point of view), believe him to be. I do not wish to take this any further, as I like you a lot and do not want this to degenerate in to a discussion which we could regret. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRN Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 I could say the same about being biased to you. But, yeah, lets agree to disagree. Now the next big thing; Nick Diaz becoming the new Welterweight champion! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnar hendershow Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 Overeem charged with battery. http://espn.go.com/mma/story/_/id/7522792/ufc-alistair-overeem-charged-misdemeanor-battery Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRN Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 Oh god, Overeem, you just hate having a succesful career, don't you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieG Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 If Reem really shoved a woman in the face, I don't think she'd be talking about it any time soon. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 I am pro anything Nick Diaz 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRN Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 Oh Rich, why did I ever fight you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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