Quom Posted September 2, 2011 Report Share Posted September 2, 2011 I don't get the hate for the Silva/Maia fight. It isn't Silva's job to make Maia look entertaining. Silva is a counter-striker. If his opponent won't strike with him it sort of makes it really hard to fight them. It's like blaming Overeem for the fight against Werdum. I'd much prefer a counter striker who puts on a boring performance when fighting a guy who won't strike, than a grappler to lays on top of an opponent with no attempt to finish in case they give up position. Lay and Pray grappling can only be beaten by a better grappler, a well-timed/lucky strike prior to take down or the ref saving the fight. A counter striker can be defeated by a better striker, a grappler actually attempting to grapple or loads of other shit. The issue was Maia was tentative to even approach the pocket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolleje Posted September 3, 2011 Report Share Posted September 3, 2011 I don't get the hate for the Silva/Maia fight. It isn't Silva's job to make Maia look entertaining. Silva is a counter-striker. If his opponent won't strike with him it sort of makes it really hard to fight them. It's like blaming Overeem for the fight against Werdum. I'd much prefer a counter striker who puts on a boring performance when fighting a guy who won't strike, than a grappler to lays on top of an opponent with no attempt to finish in case they give up position. Lay and Pray grappling can only be beaten by a better grappler, a well-timed/lucky strike prior to take down or the ref saving the fight. A counter striker can be defeated by a better striker, a grappler actually attempting to grapple or loads of other shit. The issue was Maia was tentative to even approach the pocket. Sorry... but I don't get "the hate" for bjj-guys who are not rushing in like idiots against better strikers. If you think Maia should approach Silva striking then Silva should have gone to the ground with Maia as well. He didn't... he showboated and danced and did stupid stuff. At least when Maia was on the ground he just waited for Silva to engage instead of making an *** of himself. Silva was clearly the better striker... so it was up to him to attack standing. And just for the record... I also blame both Overeem & Werdum for the boring fight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quom Posted September 3, 2011 Report Share Posted September 3, 2011 You can write arse on here. Or cunt. I fail to see where I 'hated' upon BJJ guys? Or even implied it. I never said it was Maia's job to fight with Silva. My argument is that the striker is generally the one who is seen as ruining the fight rather than both fighters being regarded as at fault. So pretty much the exact thing you are saying. The only ground guys I dislike are the ones who don't try and finish fights through either strikes or submissions, especially when these will open up and they ignore them lest they potentially lose position. All of this could be solved by bringing in the card system from Japan. Maia and Silva would have been forced to engage or end up broke. Lay and Pray could also be punishable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Posted September 3, 2011 Report Share Posted September 3, 2011 Makes no sense at all. If you're UFC, your first show on FOX needs to accomplish two things. Ideally, you'd be able to rope people in with names they've heard of, and keep them excited for the next show by delivering an entertaining fight. Velasquez might be the HW champ, but he's well down on the list of "names casual fans have heard of", below Penn, Hughes, GSP, Koscheck, Silva, Rampage, Evans, Jones, Griffin, Shogun, Mir, Lesnar, Ortiz, and probably a few guys I'm forgetting. Dos Santos is even worse. And an entertaining fight? Velasquez's entire style is based on getting a guy down and staying on top of him - and if that's been accomplished, then going for the ground and pound. Dos Santos is a good boxer, but look at the Roy Nelson fight to see what he does when he can't knock the guy out right away. If this fight goes longer than five minutes, it's going to be dull. Horrible horrible decision by UFC. I'm almost assuming FOX made the call and UFC doesn't want to admit it for business reasons. Are you implying that Dos Santos / Nelson was a boring fight? 'Cause that's one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. Also, if he can't knock the guy out right away, maybe Dos Santos will just do what he did to Carwin for the next two rounds, can continue to beat the crap out of him, perhaps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mr. potato head Posted September 3, 2011 Report Share Posted September 3, 2011 But most of the big name fighters are already booked. So were these two! Penn/Condit could have been moved up from the same show, partnered with Guida/Bendo and been far more entertaining! By putting on Velasquez/Dos Santos as your first network show you are going to not only get the hardcore MMA fans who would watch it cause they'll know this is a title fight between the number 1 and 2 fighter at Heavyweight, it's for a title and it's FREE Titles don't mean shit. People watch fights to see stars. Look at boxing. At best, titles help people become stars, but Velasquez, much like Frankie Edgar, isn't at that level yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieG Posted September 3, 2011 Report Share Posted September 3, 2011 Eh, it's beginning of September and apparently Fox are starting the advertising for the show today during college football, or whatever, so they'll get to know Velasquez and Dos Santos, plenty of hype videos of them knocking people out, they'll be hyped enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnar hendershow Posted September 3, 2011 Report Share Posted September 3, 2011 Fox has college football, baseball, and the NFL to advertise this fight during. I'd say both will be household names by the time the fight arrives. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quom Posted September 3, 2011 Report Share Posted September 3, 2011 Yeah don't really get where the complaints are coming from. My guess is Fox in conjunction with UFC feel as if they have the ability to get people who have never paid any interest to watch UFC. My thought is that they are aiming for a Forrest vs. Bonnar where the sport has a transcendent moment and reaches a whole new broader audience. The aim is to get lookie loos to keep watching. Hyping a heavyweight title fight is far more likely to get viewers in than a fight between some names that may ring a very distant bell. Only names that have a great chance of bringing in viewers who have zero knowledge of MMA are Liddell (who is retired), Randy Couture (same), or Brock Lesnar (who isn't back until next year), or Ortiz who made his name years ago and may be a 'OMG this guy is still main eventing isn't he 300 years old'. Only guy I'll grant you from your list unless things are vastly different to how I perceive them from watching in Australia is Rampage, that's only because he was arrested and was in The A Team movie. UFC's view is that bigger fighters draw money. My preference would be to have Cruz fight on Fox as I think he's highly entertaining. PPV sales don't agree with me however. I think Cain and Dos Santos are good enough and big enough names to draw an audience. My biggest concern was that they were throwing a big PPV buy rate out the window by giving it away for free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draevyn Posted September 4, 2011 Report Share Posted September 4, 2011 But most of the big name fighters are already booked. So were these two! Penn/Condit could have been moved up from the same show, partnered with Guida/Bendo and been far more entertaining! By putting on Velasquez/Dos Santos as your first network show you are going to not only get the hardcore MMA fans who would watch it cause they'll know this is a title fight between the number 1 and 2 fighter at Heavyweight, it's for a title and it's FREE Titles don't mean shit. People watch fights to see stars. Look at boxing. At best, titles help people become stars, but Velasquez, much like Frankie Edgar, isn't at that level yet. I honestly don't agree with the bolded statement at all. People may tune in because a star is on the show, but I'm pretty sure most people would love to see an entertaining fight no matter whether the fighter is a star or not. At most "casual" fans generally have friends who are more than just casual fans and therefore will be part of conversations that will give them a feel of whether to expect an exciting fight. A lot of people tune in simply on the behest of their friends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beefus of Bethesda Posted September 4, 2011 Report Share Posted September 4, 2011 Man when did this become Sherdog? Oh wait, it's just MPH. How in the motherfuckin' fuck can you not get past that a HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPIONSHIP.. OF THE WORLD fight on FOX.. promoted by the NFL on FOX, The World Series on FOX, Glee.. on FOX.. House.. on FOX and not to mention every other FOX network out there, isn't going to be a draw because the two guys who are fighting for the title [as of right now] aren't stars? Tommy Lee Jones is holding a newspaper and isn't amused by your fucktardedness. I mean did getting your name in lights on the WMMA 3 credit screen obscure your mind for logical thought about this sport or do you just get off on being the guy that EVERYBODY can;t stand because you will find a way to disagree with them in the most retarded way and then drop this gem. At best, titles help people become stars, but Velasquez, much like Frankie Edgar, isn't at that level yet. Well no fucking shit Batman. That's why this fight is on FOX. 300,000 PPV buys or a potential to get 10-20 million eyes on the sport at one time.. yeah the choice is clear. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted September 4, 2011 Report Share Posted September 4, 2011 Putting the Heavyweight title on Fox is a great move, I know there are larger name fighters out there, but let them sit on PPV bringing in the big money and allow FOX to build your new stars as they are able to build up and hype this fight to a whole other level than what UFC could have had it been on PPV. When the FX cards start coming in that will be fun, be nice to see whether they put a couple of big names on the first ones of the new "fight night" series. I normally agree with MPH on a lot of things MMA, but on this one I really can't, this is a great move to build the sport, and to me there is no way this will not be a great fight, I believe that it will impress the new/casual viewers at home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mr. potato head Posted September 4, 2011 Report Share Posted September 4, 2011 How in the motherfuckin' fuck can you not get past that a HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPIONSHIP.. OF THE WORLD fight on FOX.. promoted by the NFL on FOX, The World Series on FOX, Glee.. on FOX.. House.. on FOX and not to mention every other FOX network out there, isn't going to be a draw because the two guys who are fighting for the title [as of right now] aren't stars? Because this isn't 1974? Would Wladimir Klitschko vs. Alexander Potvekin be a draw with all that promotion? Nope. You can learn the same lesson by looking at UFC buyrates - title matches don't make a significant difference, big-name fighters do. There will be plenty of people out there who watch that FOX programming, see the UFC ads, and think thusly: "UFC for free?! Awesome! Heavyweight championship?! Awesome! ...wait who are these guys? I've never heard of them. The only fighters I know are GSP and Brock Lesnar and that Bones guy who was on Leno. No wonder UFC's not making me pay for this fight, these guys are nobodies." Well no fucking shit Batman. That's why this fight is on FOX. 300,000 PPV buys or a potential to get 10-20 million eyes on the sport at one time.. yeah the choice is clear. 300,000 buys from people who would buy most of the following shows anyhow, or 10-20 million people who will never watch again if this fight isn't Bonnar/Griffin-level exciting? And I'll leave the rest because it's just a ridiculous amount of vitriol. Keep in mind that the only person who had expressed the opposite opinion when I made my first post was davidmarrio; I assumed quite a few people would agree with me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mr. potato head Posted September 4, 2011 Report Share Posted September 4, 2011 Putting the Heavyweight title on Fox is a great move, I know there are larger name fighters out there, but let them sit on PPV bringing in the big money and allow FOX to build your new stars as they are able to build up and hype this fight to a whole other level than what UFC could have had it been on PPV. When the FX cards start coming in that will be fun, be nice to see whether they put a couple of big names on the first ones of the new "fight night" series. I normally agree with MPH on a lot of things MMA, but on this one I really can't, this is a great move to build the sport, and to me there is no way this will not be a great fight, I believe that it will impress the new/casual viewers at home. I seriously don't get how you can say "there is no way this will not be a great fight". Neither of these guys has ever been entertaining when they're not knocking people out in the first round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelty92 Posted September 4, 2011 Report Share Posted September 4, 2011 300,000 buys from people who would buy most of the following shows anyhow, or 10-20 million people who will never watch again if this fight isn't Bonnar/Griffin-level exciting? I never liked boxing and I was never interested in any form of combat sport before I was introduced to MMA by watching UFC 92. None of the fights were "Bonnar/Griffin-level exciting", yet I became a fan instantly and I'm still watching it almost three years later. Sure, some probably won't get the spark and will just go "meh, this is stupid" and never watch it again, but they're people who most likely wouldn't even get into this stuff even if it was another Bonnar vs. Griffin type of brawl. It doesn't have to be the greatest fight ever in order for someone to become interested. I seriously don't get how you can say "there is no way this will not be a great fight". Neither of these guys has ever been entertaining when they're not knocking people out in the first round. While I do agree that Cain Velasquez isn't the most entertaining fighter in the world, that statement is absolute bullshit when it comes to Junior Dos Santos. He's gone past the first round three times during his career and two of them were, if not great, then at the very least fun stand-up wars with Carwin and Nelson. I can't seem to remember a thing about the Cro Cop fight, so it might've been dull, but not calling JDS an entertaining fighter is just stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazz Posted September 4, 2011 Report Share Posted September 4, 2011 They'll do one of those vids like they did for GSP vs Koscheck and make both guys look like a million bucks in less than three minutes. And then UFC gets to 'that guy from the FOX broadcast who fucked the other guys shit up in front of 5 million people' versus 'Brock Lesnar, he will fucking kill you as much as look at you' for THE WORLD HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPIONSHIP OF THE WORLD!!! on PPV and it does a number so far unheard of in MMA and Dana White starts wiping his ass with $100 bills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Posted September 5, 2011 Report Share Posted September 5, 2011 Putting the Heavyweight title on Fox is a great move, I know there are larger name fighters out there, but let them sit on PPV bringing in the big money and allow FOX to build your new stars as they are able to build up and hype this fight to a whole other level than what UFC could have had it been on PPV. When the FX cards start coming in that will be fun, be nice to see whether they put a couple of big names on the first ones of the new "fight night" series. I normally agree with MPH on a lot of things MMA, but on this one I really can't, this is a great move to build the sport, and to me there is no way this will not be a great fight, I believe that it will impress the new/casual viewers at home. I seriously don't get how you can say "there is no way this will not be a great fight". Neither of these guys has ever been entertaining when they're not knocking people out in the first round. So you WERE dropped on your head as a child. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plubby Posted September 5, 2011 Report Share Posted September 5, 2011 I get it! Because hating on MPH is COOL! Honestly, I'm starting to think these are all just Be's double accounts. Be Benkid Beefus of Canada Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beefus of Bethesda Posted September 5, 2011 Report Share Posted September 5, 2011 I get it! Because hating on MPH is COOL! Honestly, I'm starting to think these are all just Be's double accounts. Be Benkid Beefus of Canada Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plubby Posted September 5, 2011 Report Share Posted September 5, 2011 Well, I was trying to avoid the obvious image macro. That's twice you've managed to ruin this thread in ten posts. Sensational job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazz Posted September 5, 2011 Report Share Posted September 5, 2011 I get it! Because hating on MPH is COOL! Honestly, I'm starting to think these are all just Be's double accounts. Be Benkid Beefus of Canada What about me? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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