European Football Thread

[lanky316]

It's worth also taking into account that his mother has being involved in, and even founding, far right Italian political parties throughout her political career. While he shouldn't be handicapped based on the actions of relatives, it does have the potential to embolden certain aspects of the Lazio fanbase and could turn out to be very problematic. It may not be long if he broke into the first team before they chant about Benito Mussolini and we get the mental gymnastics of "he likes being called by his middle name!" to justify it.

[Adam]

The fact his family actually gave him the middle name Benito tells its own story.

Lazio is a traditionally fascist club (ugh) so the concerns are certainly understandable. He may well amount to nothing as a footballer anyway.

[Szumi]

Well I for one don't think he's going to go far as a professional football. He might be better off trying to be a professional footballer though.

[gunnar hendershow]

50 minutes ago, It's Pronounced Zoom-E said:

Well I for one don't think he's going to go far as a professional football. He might be better off trying to be a professional footballer though.

His great grandfather made a late-in-life switch to being a professional football.

[METALMAN]

I know a few Lazio fans who are really nice people and despise the fascist elements of their club. To them it's just their local team and that's why they are fans. I think they are reflective of the majority. It's not necessarily that Lazio is institutionally and unremittingly ridden with cunts. Although they are there, obviously, and they're pretty visible.

I think the problem is larger than Lazio, really. Italy has done a pretty poor job at defascistification (or whatever...). Getting out early allowed them to pass the buck to an extent, just as Austria were able to pretend they were victims of an annexation. They didn't purge to the extent that Germany did through being utterly defeated (not that Germany were anywhere near as good at denazification as they like to pretend). It's not really a Lazio issue. It's an Italy issue. Fascist stuff just isn't taboo. Obvs the majority don't like it, but it's openly celebrated by enough and little is done about it.

But this particular thing is a non story. Just some kid from a shit family who'll probably be a shit player. Give him the benefit of the doubt for now. I'd be far more worried about those with the Mussolini name that routinely get elected to the Chamber of Deputies and the European Parliament.

 

[Malenko]

Obviously not all Lazio supporters are fascists and obviously you can find plenty of them all over the country.

However, it's undeniable those with strong political convictions flock to team A or team B based on the general political ideology of the town's clubs and their supporters and ultras. That "your home is an oven in Auschwitz" banner was awful. If I was a "nice Lazio fan" and watched as my club half-accepted it would have been more than enough for me to stop supporting them until something of significance was done about it. (They tried to say the club didn't share the ultras views after it became a media scandal, but they're still there. No punishment)

The Roma - Lazio rivalry was originally purely based on the fact Lazio considered they represented the city of Rome because they were there first while Roma supporters would tell them they're not even from the city. But that's long gone. It was always a working-class vs rich suburbs thing but with time it became much more than that.

This is also true in Spain where plenty of people who hate Real Madrid do so because of their far-right tendencies. And this happens even if there are fascist groups at Atlético and to a much much lesser extent at Rayo Vallecano. There will always be those who support their clubs because their parents did so or whatever reasons lead us to support A or B but those are the general tendencies. Just like in Rome the rich north and suburbs support Madrid, and vote right wing. Those in the working class south support Atletico and vote socialist. Those in the poor east/south east support Rayo and vote left. Plenty of antifas all over the country support them based on the club's open anti-fascist stance. Is it 100% like this? No. But more than enough for it to be a thing. And it's also a thing in Greece and Turkey.

Politics and football really go hand in hand in the south of Europe. It's not like the UK or the north in general.

[Szumi]

Ajax are really having a bad week. After somehow failing to register Seb Haller for the Europa League, Andre Onana has now been banned for 12 months for failing a drug test in October. He says he accidentally took something of his wife's when he wasn't feeling well, and UEFA even said it was an accidental incident and not him trying to cheat, yet still a 1 year banned. Ajax and Onana are going to appeal, and probably at least get it knocked down, but still, without arguably the best keeper in the Eredivise now.

[Monkey D. Lars]

34 minutes ago, It's Pronounced Zoom-E said:

Ajax are really having a bad week. After somehow failing to register Seb Haller for the Europa League, Andre Onana has now been banned for 12 months for failing a drug test in October. He says he accidentally took something of his wife's when he wasn't feeling well, and UEFA even said it was an accidental incident and not him trying to cheat, yet still a 1 year banned. Ajax and Onana are going to appeal, and probably at least get it knocked down, but still, without arguably the best keeper in the Eredivise now.

 Another player in Holland took the same drug, which masks other drugs, said it was an accident, got suspended for 2 years. I'm afraid Onana is done for this season and half of next. His contract expires 2022.

And he is already being punished for taking it accidentally, so UEFA took that in their decision. So he might could've gotten 2/3 years, but they gave him 1.

[METALMAN]

10 hours ago, Malenko said:

Politics and football really go hand in hand in the south of Europe. It's not like the UK or the north in general.

I guess by the UK what you're really meaning is England? Because Rangers and Celtic and Linfield and Glentoran are some of the most intensely political football rivalries in the world. I grew up surrounded by the Rangers and Celtic rivalry and the unpleasantness it can bring and it played a big part in my childhood (FWIW I don't like either of them). Now, based on my experience of that, it makes me feel what you are saying is overly simplistic and doesn't demonstrate a great deal of understanding of the multi-faceted role a football club can play in the local community.

Rangers or Celtic or Lazio or whatever can be appropriated to stand for political or religious or racist things. But to the majority of the supporters it is the club their father supported and it's an institution that represents the local community in an age where many of the other things that previously played that role for working people - trade union membership/the church/local democracy - are on the wane or have already gone. This means that if a bunch of cunts do appropriate an institution you cared about and try to make it stand for something else it can be a very complex issue for existing fans, because for them the roots go far deeper than that. I don't think it's necessarily as simple as ordinary fans would stop supporting because a bunch of fascists come along, because the ordinary fans think that the club is theirs.

The obvious thing that stands out to me when it comes to the South of Europe - and what sets them apart from the UK and Northern Europe - is not really about the structure or character of the football clubs. I think the obvious thing that stands out is that all these countries - Portugal, Spain, Italy, Greece and Turkey - have had recent experience of fascist or military dictatorships. None of them have dealt with the aftermath of this particularly well. They also all have high numbers of unemployed young men. In these countries, in living memory, we have violence being used to achieve political ends. These are the sort of factors that lead to extreme factional violence.

When the problem runs so deep, there is relatively little football clubs can do. Remove the football clubs from the equation and these people will latch onto something else. The society creates them, not the clubs. 

[Malenko]

Yes. Sorry. I meant mostly England. I did forget about the Celtic-Rangers situation and in any case I don't know enough apart from the obvious to comment on it. 

 

I didn't include Portugal in the examples above because it really isn't remotely similar. There's a big Porto-Lisbon divide (or North-South depending on who you talk to) mostly among less educated people but definitely very much alive in any social "class". I didn't bring up Madrid-Barcelona in my previous post because i feel it goes more along these lines.

This reflects on a Porto-Benfica rivalry that can get pretty heated but still I didn't mention because it would feel like a slovenian telling someone from Tokyo, Ljubljana is big and messy - it really isn't. Any sort of political commentary comes from the fact Benfica (and the Lisbon teams in general) dominated football in Portugal for the most part during the regime and Porto after it so that's something Porto supporters tend to mention. That's most of it. Also, apart from the big 3, most people support their local clubs. Clubs don't have fans who support them based on their ideology because, quite frankly, there's none.

You don't have a Lazio, a Livorno, a Rayo Vallecano or a Real Madrid there. That's also uncommon in northern european countries. As an example, Rayo Vallecano had a Betis player on loan for about 2 days until the fans found fascist posts on social media and he was sent back. It was that simple. They were one of the only clubs to have a woman president and they had a rainbow flag on their alternate kits. It's a statement regarding their beliefs. I know it's not a whole lot but it's still a lot more than most clubs are willing to do. 

The same thing happens in Italy, Greece and Turkey.

I'm talking percentages here. I never said everyone is one way or another. There's still a lot of people following their parents footsteps like you said (I also mentioned it before so it's not like I ever said that doesn't happen. I'm just saying you just notice it's different when you're around these clubs. At Lazio one does feel this is not a neutral ground and for a lot of people (such as moi) it's very, very uncomfortable.

The transition from fascist regimes in Spain and Italy was handled poorly to put it kindly. Again, I wouldn't include Portugal in this group either. Far right parties won their first seat in their parliament n the last election. They never left Spain or Italy and were pretty much in control of most media outlets in both countries. 

And sure, football isn't to blame for the rise of fascism but I believe clubs could do a tiny bit. It's the only social gathering for many people. It wouldn't hurt to act a bit. At least don't act like fascism is acceptable. There's always a little bit you can do. Some clubs do. Some do the opposite.

 

[Colly]

VA fucking shite more like.

 

[Cymbols]

Looks like Dayot Upamecano is heading to Bayern next summer. 
 

Also Angeliño featuring for Leipzig tonight triggered a clause in his loan deal, meaning that his move from Manchester City will be made permanent, contract running until 2025. There is a new buyback clause though, €40m. 

[Szumi]

Would not be surprised for City to activate that and sell him on for a bigger fee, depending on the fee they got from Leipzig. He's an absolute talent for any side playing with wing backs. If I'm Antonio Conte, I would be trying like mad to get him.

[Szumi]

Former Barcelona president Josep Maria Bartomeu, his adviser Jaume Masferrer, the club's CEO Oscar Grau and head of legal services Roman Gomez Ponti have been arrested following a raid at the club's offices on Monday, sources have confirmed to ESPN.

https://www.espn.com/soccer/barcelona/story/4326798/ex-barcelona-president-bartomeu-among-those-arrested-in-club-raids-sources

*In before Lineker

[The Lusophone]

This is related to BarcaGate, where the Barca board hired a PR firm to spread stories about rival clubs, former players and managers and even Lionel Messi.

[Adam]

Bloody hell, Bartomeu has absolutely poisoned that club hasn't he.

[Lineker]

Joachim Löw is leaving the Germany national team job after this summer's European Championships. 

[Szumi]

While I definitely don't expect him to do anything right away, I am very interested to see Low in club football since he hasn't been involved with it for almost 20 years and after starting out well at Stuttgart, pretty much flopped at every job he had. But he's been the greatest international manager of this generation when you look at Germany's success.

It's the right move though too for Germany because they definitely have dropped off the last several years. I'm curious to see if they again go a Low route to the manager, or try to get a big name German in.

[Gazz]

It will be interesting to see who succeeds him, because the two most obvious options that come to mind, Klopp and Nagelsmann, I don't believe would be suited to international management. They're both trainers, they want to spend every day on the training pitch and that's not what international management is. The world and his dog knows Klopp's preferred style of play, can he impart that on a squad of players that maybe doesn't fit that style and that he only sees twenty days a year? I doubt it.

Opposite with Low, after fifteen years as an international manager, can he adapt to club management and being with the players day in, day out? I doubt that also. I would imagine he'll stay in international management and end up coaching whichever African or Asian team will throw the most money at him.

[The Lusophone]

I don't see any prominent German club manager going for the job. I think in all likelihood we see Marcus Sorg given the job until the end of World Cup qualifying.