Premier League 2020/21

[Szumi]

Idk, as a Liverpool fan, never a penalty for me.

 

But also, BOBBY!!!

[Baddar]

Either way, since the non pen, Liverpool have been far the better side. We stopped playing.

[DavidMarrio]

BOBBBYYYYYYY

Doing it for the working class poverty team!!

 

[Liam]

4 minutes ago, Colly said:

I find this a really strange take, if anything the game has gone in completely the opposite direction in recent years. This new obsession with still images and super slow motion without seeing the context of the couple of seconds of play means we've had ridiculous decisions like the Balbuena one the other day.

I don't get how it is a strange take. A tackle that sees a player get a stud on the ball will have people claiming that it isn't a foul, even if the deviation on the ball/impact on the play itself is minimal. When a lot of the decisions as to whether something is a penalty or not hinges solely on 'did they get the ball?' with limited focus on much else, I don't really think it has gone in some other direction.

Or, perhaps, it is solely dependent on the incidents, games, and referees we've seen. I dunno.

EDIT: I'm just going to note that I'm not suggesting it was a stonewall penalty. I'm just confused somewhat over what changes in watching it again. He was six foot away, Bailly clearly gets the ball and then catches the player. If he misses the touch on the ball, I'm very surprised, and therefore don't see how he then overturns it unless he doesn't see the touch...which is bizarre.

[Colly]

7 minutes ago, Baddar said:

I don't know where he's supposed to go or what he's supposed to do after winning the ball. He can't stop his momentum completely dead. If a more assured defender makes that tackle I don't think there's this much fuss being made tbh.

See for me the bolded bit is no longer a defense and we've had this conversation a few times recently. However in this case (different to that Leeds one a few weeks back and numerous others) for me Bailly isn't lunging there at all. He goes to ground, but there's barely any impact in the contact and of anything it's the side of a boot making contact with a shinpad.

That said I was very surprised to see it overturned just by definition of clear and obvious error, but I was pleased it was.

[Benjamin]

Bobby Firmino 

(I’ll probably get annoyed with him in a half hour again)

[Liam]

Just now, Colly said:

See for me the bolded bit is no longer a defense and we've had this conversation a few times recently.

I can't multiquote this it seems, but this I agree on.

[The Lusophone]

Between them, Bobby Firmino, Mo Salah and Sadio Mane have now equalled Diogo Jota's goal tally at Old Trafford... with one goal.

[Baddar]

My point was that he cleared the ball and his foot connected with the player almost instantly as he cleared it. It looked fast even slowed down. It's like any contact with an opponent these days is a foul. He hasn't hurt him, he hasn't put his studs through the player, like the Leeds one. 

[Colly]

2 minutes ago, Liam said:

I don't get how it is a strange take. A tackle that sees a player get a stud on the ball will have people claiming that it isn't a foul, even if the deviation on the ball/impact on the play itself is minimal. When a lot of the decisions as to whether something is a penalty or not hinges solely on 'did they get the ball?' with limited focus on much else, I don't really think it has gone in some other direction.

Or, perhaps, it is solely dependent on the incidents, games, and referees we've seen. I dunno.

People have always used "he got the ball" as an excuse, but it's only in recent years that follow throughs, amount of force etc have been included in the laws of the game and referees interpretation, so the game itself has gone in completely the opposite direction. I don't think that's a bad thing, I was in the crowd when a Nijel de Jong reducer broke Hatem Ben Arfa in several pieces without even a foul being given, but the number of times you see a nonsensical still image appear on Twitter as evidence of a "clear red" these days is ridiculous. If you play football someone will stand on your foot occasionally, just because someones studs touch you it's not an automatic leg breaker, and in a situation like today when two players go for a ball and there's a bit of a collision it can't automatically be a foul against the player who makes the slightly uglier contact.

 

 

[Liam]

5 minutes ago, Colly said:

People have always used "he got the ball" as an excuse, but it's only in recent years that follow throughs, amount of force etc have been included in the laws of the game and referees interpretation, so the game itself has gone in completely the opposite direction.

Not amongst the fans, nor seemingly at times with referees and VAR. They may be written into the rules, but I've seen a number of decisions changed that effectively come down to 'has he won the ball?', irrelevant of anything else and 'getting the ball' has been the reasoning given behind a decision to overturn or stick with a decision. Generally, that is enough, but there has been times when it is not the sole factor.

I'd love to give you examples, but my memory of specifics is shit. I do know that I was having a conversation with a football fan I work with earlier in the week and it was a complaint that he also had about fouls/'getting the ball'. 

[Baddar]

Football has gone soft as fuck. A player like Vidic wouldn't survive in today's game.

But what I will say, is by the reaction alone, it's evident it's not a clear and obvious error to award it, so they shouldn't be overturning.

[Colly]

I'm honestly stunned you think that. Liam that is.

Edited May 13, 2021 by Colly

[DavidMarrio]

Never a pen for me. Gets the ball, bit of contact as you'd get sometimes as it's a contact sport. It's not a case of the way he's gone in for me is dangerous or reckless he's just got him a bit with his shin/knee after the tackle. 

14 minutes ago, MadJack said:

Between them, Bobby Firmino, Mo Salah and Sadio Mane have now equalled Diogo Jota's goal tally at Old Trafford... with one goal.

Make that between them they have surpassed Jota's goal tally...

[Szumi]

15 minutes ago, MadJack said:

Between them, Bobby Firmino, Mo Salah and Sadio Mane have now equalled Diogo Jota's goal tally at Old Trafford... with one goal.

You were saying? 😉

[Liam]

8 minutes ago, Baddar said:

It's evident it's not a clear and obvious error to award it, so they shouldn't be overturning.

That was my basic argument. You give it, it stays given I feel.

7 minutes ago, Colly said:

I'm honestly stunned you think that. Liam that is.

I don't get why. I think the Leeds example that was brought up earlier was a clear example of where the getting of the ball was secondary to the perceived intent and he was sent off. However, that was a judgement based on reckless and dangerous play. I just feel, when it comes to penalty decisions (as they are the ones that get scrutinised more often), the winning of the ball takes unfair precedence at times. That isn't a particularly huge claim to make, I feel.

I also feel that it isn't outrageous to suggest that a lot of fans still think the winning of the ball is all that matters, especially considering the amount of fans who defend poor tackles with claims that the player won the ball.

I also think that we are thinking at cross purposes as well, arguing slightly different points. So there is that.

I bet on Manchester United to win, so you know...

[Baddar]

1 minute ago, Liam said:

That was my basic argument. You give it, it stays given I feel.

Same applies when it isn't given originally. Stick by the call if it's not obvious. I don't think it's a foul because I don't want football to be a zero contact sport. Being worried about connecting with another player after you kick the ball is a slippery slope to go down.

[The Lusophone]

15 minutes ago, Szumi - A Polack said:

You were saying? 😉

Nice of them to turn up. I do hope you sneak into the top four, because it will be very, very funny.

[Baddar]

Can we take 1-3 now? I only see this getting worse.

[Liam]

1 minute ago, Baddar said:

Can we take 1-3 now? I only see this getting worse.

I was very sure you would win tonight for some reason. Guess having less to play for ultimately has had an impact?