England - The Southgate Years

[METALMAN]

I get where TCO is coming from. There’s a fair few English-born players that I’ve been happy to have in the Scotland team. And their affiliation isn’t as plastic as you might think: more often than not they have a Scottish dad who indoctrinates the poor boy into being a Scotland fan from birth, dooming him to a lifetime of disappointment.

The reality is Scotland and Ireland are developing players from pretty small populations, but both have fairly large diasporas. At that scale you have to take advantages where you can get them.

Edited August 25, 2020 by metalman

[Gazz]

Matt Richie would have won England a World Cup.

[METALMAN]

Swap you him for Raheem Sterling?

[The Lusophone]

Kieran Tierney was born on the Isle of Man, shouldn't be playing for Scotland smh

[METALMAN]

Don’t need him anyway, we’re fine for left backs : /

[Rich]

2 hours ago, TCO said:

His mother is Irish and he's a citizen, if he wants to play then of course I want him to play for us. 

 

Is she? P sure she and his father are both English, though his Grandparents were Irish, huh.

[TCO]

3 minutes ago, Rich said:

Is she? P sure she and his father are both English, though his Grandparents were Irish, huh.

"English-born Smallbone - whose mother is from Kilkenny - has been on Southampton’s books since he was eight."

https://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/soccer/ireland-youth-international-smallbone-signs-22170363

[The Lusophone]

Gareth Southgate has now withdrawn Harry Maguire from the England squad.

Good job supporting your players Gareth.

[TCO]

19 minutes ago, MadJack said:

Gareth Southgate has now withdrawn Harry Maguire from the England squad.

Good job supporting your players Gareth.

C'mon now. The man just got convicted of assaulting and bribing a police officer. There's no fucking way he should be near the squad after his behaviour. What do you want them to do? Come out wearing Suarezesque t-shirts in support of him?

Defend him all you want but if he played for any other team, there'd be no way you'd be doing the same. Even if he's completely innocent as you make out to be, he was a fucking idiot who deserves to be punished by his manager. Lets see if Ole or Man United have the stones to do the same.

[The Lusophone]

10 minutes ago, TCO said:

C'mon now. The man just got convicted of assaulting and bribing a police officer. There's no fucking way he should be near the squad after his behaviour. What do you want them to do? Come out wearing Suarezesque t-shirts in support of him?

Defend him all you want but if he played for any other team, there'd be no way you'd be doing the same. Even if he's completely innocent as you make out to be, he was a fucking idiot who deserves to be punished by his manager. Lets see if Ole or Man United have the stones to do the same.

If he was going to drop him if he was found guilty he shouldn't have picked him in the first place. Either he accepts Maguire's side of the story - which he said he did several hours ago - or he doesn't, in which case he, again, shouldn't have picked him.

Dropping him now, after what was essentially a show trial where the defence didn't get to see the evidence until late in the day the night before the trial, is just throwing his player under the bus unnecessarily.

[Colly]

Call up Joey Barton to replace him.

[TCO]

1 minute ago, MadJack said:

If he was going to drop him if he was found guilty he shouldn't have picked him in the first place. Either he accepts Maguire's side of the story - which he said he did several hours ago - or he doesn't, in which case he, again, shouldn't have picked him.

Dropping him now, after what was essentially a show trial where the defence didn't get to see the evidence until late in the day the night before the trial, is just throwing his player under the bus unnecessarily.

He got handed a suspended sentence hours after the squad was named. Debate the validity of that all you like, but that's the facts of the matter as of now.

Southgate fucked up by picking him in the first place but he did what he could to correct that error now. You can't have him rocking up to England camp fresh out of a Greek jail and conviction to represent the country.

[DFF]

He probably should have just avoided picking him for this round of games. 

[METALMAN]

12 hours ago, MadJack said:

Dropping him now, after what was essentially a show trial where the defence didn't get to see the evidence until late in the day the night before the trial, is just throwing his player under the bus unnecessarily.

Show trial is not really the most appropriate term to use, and unfortunately veers towards negative stereotypes of Greece that we shouldn't really be putting up with anymore. Greece is a signatory of the European Convention of Human Rights and the European Charter of Fundamental Rights. Greece isn't some banana republic. The European Court of Human Rights carefully monitors criminal justice procedures in its member countries, and comes down hard on those that are not up to scratch. It's not unusual to dispense with routine criminal trials quickly. They are, after all, routine, and don't need a great deal of legal preparation.

Also Harry Maguire isn't that good anyway. Barry Maguire is better.

Edited August 26, 2020 by metalman

[Liam]

You can choose to side with what your player said first and foremost, but then make a different judgement based around the legal outcome of proceedings. They aren't mutually exclusive.

He probably shouldn't have picked him anyway. However, he can't keep him in the team once he has been found guilty. He clearly wanted to show support for Maguire and trusted what he said, but that seemingly hasn't been borne out by what happened in court, fairly or unfairly.

[DFF]

If this had been for the WC, I could understand Southgate picking him and doing as has happened. After all, if the charges were dsmissed he'd be fine. 

However, this is that Tin Pot Cup that is the Nations League. Whilst I enjoy a good tournament, it is very much C-list level and only really serves the mid-level nations as a 2ndry chance of qualification to the Euros/Worlds if they have disastrous qualifying campaigns. He could have seen the news and just quietly not picked him, saying that he wants to give another player a go whilst it's all sorted out. 

[GA!]

You can cry "corruption" all you want because something something all foreign courts are corrupt because foreigners as is the line his PR people are trying, but he was still sentenced. What message does it send out to children if Southgate goes "he can kick a ball really well*, fuck any justice system"?

 

*that's debatable but still...

[The Lusophone]

I mean I'm "crying" corruption because any trial where the defence isn't granted timely access to the evidence against their client is inherently corrupt. And I'd say that whether it was a trial in Greece, the UK or the friggin' moon.

[METALMAN]

8 minutes ago, MadJack said:

I mean I'm "crying" corruption because any trial where the defence isn't granted timely access to the evidence against their client is inherently corrupt.

No it isn’t. In pretty much every country criminal courts are under a great deal of pressure. They have limited resources and a lot of work to do, and they have to get it done quickly. This means processing routine cases - like assault - quickly.

It’s quite possible there is something to Maguire’s lawyer’s absurd story. Absurd things can happen, and a system working under pressure - particularly during a pandemic and in a country working under huge public spending cuts - can make mistakes.

Mistakes get made. That doesn’t make the system inherently corrupt. Indeed, it’s in recognition of the fact that mistakes get made that the legal system allows for appeals. And he’ll get his appeal.

Edited August 26, 2020 by metalman

[TCO]

19 hours ago, Adam said:

He's not a "wanker" though, is he? I know you're obviously not an England fan but he's our best manager since Eriksson, I think that is not even in question at this stage.

I think there is a question. That World Cup run was great until you look at the actual results. What game in that World Cup did England win that they weren't expected to win comfortably? The Colombia game maybe?

He beat Panama,Tunisia with a last minute winner, Sweden, Colombia on pens and lost to Croatia and Belgium twice. Yes fair play to him for reaching the semis, that is an achievement in itself. However I think England will be limited by him as they're seemingly coming into a golden generation of attacking players. With the squad he has, I would expect them to win the Euro or come very close. We'll see how he gets on.