House of the Dragon (Game of Thrones) Thread

[Jimmy]

I need to process and maybe watch again - but I think I’m...underwhelmed?

[Gazz]

Don't open unless you've seen Endgame
 

Spoiler

 

I think the one thing that this episode was missing was a really big 1vX Avengers style bossfight where they all try and attack the Night King at the same time and he's able to fight them with relative ease, think Thanos' battles with multiple Avengers in Infinity War and Endgame. Just to demonstrate how fucked they really are when they're trying to defeat him with brute force. I think if they'd had all the characters (Jon, Jaime, Brienne, Tormund, Pod, Sam, Grey Worm etc.) who were in the main courtyard attack the Night King as he walked through and bring Jorah and Dany in from the inside, then you could have had that battle, kill off a bunch of redshirts and also had Jorah sacrifice himself to protect Dany. Then once the Night King has beat the fuck out of all of them, just have him turn and walk off because he's not interested in them, he wants Bran and nothing else.

It's pretty clear to me that there were two plans in effect at Winterfell, the main plan, which was frankly rubbish and doomed to failure due to a number of factors and Bran's plan, which seemed to rely on the main plan failing. This figures since Bran knew the plan would fail but that it had to fail so he could enact his plan. I'm guessing that since he gave the dagger to Arya in the first place, maybe he'd already seen a vision where she attacks him in the Godswood with Needle or her new staff but is killed. He's basically Dr. Strange, he's seen the one and only way to win, but he's got to move the pieces into place without the 'pieces' realising that he's doing it.

 

 

[Bobfoc]

2 hours ago, Jimmy said:

I need to process and maybe watch again - but I think I’m...underwhelmed?

Spoiler

I'm leaning towards a more negative than positive view myself. I actually expected to hate the episode because I wasn't keen on "Beyond the Wall" and felt that the show's leaning towards dramatic moments that don't actually make much storyline logic. I didn't end up hating the episode, and I thought that there were lots of visually fantastic moments, but I can definitely see why people who were heavily invested in finding out about the Night King would be really disappointed.

I know a lot of people were hoping that this series would uncover more secrets bout who the Night King is and why he wants an eternal night, but in the end, he ended up just being a big, evil zombie man. I'm not too bothered because the whole army of the dead thing didn't interest me, but I can see why people who've spent almost twenty years coming up with theories would be underwhelmed.

I'm just glad it's over because, as I said before, the war against Cersei's forces is much more interesting to me. Now we'll get to see potential conflict between Jon and Dany, which sounds more intriguing than the black and white good-versus-evil setup with the army of the dead.

 

[Kaney]

57 minutes ago, Bobfoc said:

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I'm leaning towards a more negative than positive view myself. I actually expected to hate the episode because I wasn't keen on "Beyond the Wall" and felt that the show's leaning towards dramatic moments that don't actually make much storyline logic. I didn't end up hating the episode, and I thought that there were lots of visually fantastic moments, but I can definitely see why people who were heavily invested in finding out about the Night King would be really disappointed.

I know a lot of people were hoping that this series would uncover more secrets bout who the Night King is and why he wants an eternal night, but in the end, he ended up just being a big, evil zombie man. I'm not too bothered because the whole army of the dead thing didn't interest me, but I can see why people who've spent almost twenty years coming up with theories would be underwhelmed.

I'm just glad it's over because, as I said before, the war against Cersei's forces is much more interesting to me. Now we'll get to see potential conflict between Jon and Dany, which sounds more intriguing than the black and white good-versus-evil setup with the army of the dead.

 

yeah I figured they were building up to a special reveal of the Night Kings origins maybe as a Targaryen or something since he survived Danys dracaris attack without flinching but no, just a quick stab and hes gone. Don't see the point in specifically showing Lyanna and Edd reviving as zombies to do absolutely nothing and then be beaten immediately.

I didn't dislike the episode but i can totally see why its underwhelming. The whole series has slowly been building up to this confrontation, literally the first scene in episode 1 was referring to them. And it's all wrapped up in one episode? I don't even think the Night Kings general dudes did anything did they? I thought they did a fantastic job making it seem like they were overwhelmed and there was no hope, but it was resolved far too quick.

[Your Mom]

Spoiler

I'm not nearly as invested so forgive me if this is ridiculous but is it possible you guys built it up too much? Like I've done this with movies before where no matter what they do it's not going to be anywhere as good as I imagined it in my head. Like to me as someone with a passing interest it seemed like an epic, hard (poorly lit) battle.

 

[GoGo Yubari]

1 hour ago, Bobfoc said:

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I know a lot of people were hoping that this series would uncover more secrets bout who the Night King is and why he wants an eternal night, but in the end, he ended up just being a big, evil zombie man. I'm not too bothered because the whole army of the dead thing didn't interest me, but I can see why people who've spent almost twenty years coming up with theories would be underwhelmed.

 

I think

Spoiler

In general, from my relatively at-a-distance perspective, it seems to me that Benioff/Weiss are content with "this character is important/smart and has A Plan, but oh whoops they died, we don't really need to say what it is now, do we? Oh well!"

 

[Nerf]

10 hours ago, Bobfoc said:

 

Spoiler

Y'all are sleeping on The Hound as the Valonqar. There's a reason the show made a point of Cersei reinstating trial by combat. Once Kings Landing is taken by Dany's forces, she'll demand a trial by combat and nominate her seemingly unstoppable Zombie Mountain as her champion. Cleganebowl ensues, Hound wins, and thus the little brother is ultimately the cause of her death sentence.

Episode thoughts

Spoiler

I really, really liked it. I think it was probably the best start-to-finish episode of GoT to date, with the caveat of there being one really dud moment. The Night King's death was just so... abrupt. It felt like we'd spent so long building to this moment and then it was just like "oh, that's it?" I find myself having more questions than answers. Does surviving Drogon's fire mean he was a Targaryan in his past life? What did he want with Bran specifically? I want to know more and I don't think they're going to tell me.

I did like the foreshadowing of Arya being the one to do it, though. Many blue eyes indeed.

 

[DMN in the House]

Targaryens aren't immune to dragon fire, people. They never were, Dany surviving the funeral pyre was a one-time thing. They may have slightly better heat resistance, though.

The Others have always been a red herring. The show built them and Jon Snow up as the main event and characters, but they never were, it's called 'Game of Thrones' and not 'Medieval Walking Dead' because the whole thing is about the human politics of Westeros and it always has been.

[Moses Julep]

Overall I was entertained but 

A bit too much plot armour and deus ex machina to keep the important characters alive and for Arya to save the day.

[Ruki]

A random thought...

 

Does this remove Jon's plot armor now? He's served his purpose, he's done everything he wanted. Hell, he probably doesn't even peruse the throne because that's not Jon.

 

Also, no way does Arya kill Cersi. She doesn't get to kill both big bads.

 

.... and how the hell is Sam alive? He should be super dead. Like multiple times over. And who is getting the Tarly Valaryian steel sword that Jorah died with?

[Bobfoc]

13 minutes ago, DMN said:

 

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Targaryens aren't immune to dragon fire, people. They never were, Dany surviving the funeral pyre was a one-time thing. They may have slightly better heat resistance, though.

The Others have always been a red herring. The show built them and Jon Snow up as the main event and characters, but they never were, it's called 'Game of Thrones' and not 'Medieval Walking Dead' because the whole thing is about the human politics of Westeros and it always has been.

 

Spoiler

I think you've touched on some differences between the books and the show here. The show is called "Game of Thrones", so I agree that it makes more sense for the main focus to be on Westerosi politics. That's something I prefer, personally.

On the other hand, the books are called "A Song of Ice and Fire", referring to the prophecy of the prince/princess who will defeat the darkness. I'd expect the Others to be more significant in terms of the endgame there.

As for the Targaryens and fire immunity, it's not very clear in the show. In the books, it's established that Dany survived the funeral pyre because she made a blood sacrifice (Mirri Maz Duur, but that she'd be just as susceptible to fire as anyone else under normal circumstances. In the show, we also saw Dany emerge unharmed from the fire at Vaes Dothrak, although that could again be because of blood magic associated with killing the Khals.

Actually, coming to think of it, Jon had his hand burnt by the lamp when he saved Jeor from the wight, so maybe that's some evidence from the show that universal flame resistance isn't an innate Targaryen characteristic.

 

6 minutes ago, Moses Julep said:

Overall I was entertained but 

 

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A bit too much plot armour and deus ex machina to keep the important characters alive and for Arya to save the day.

 

Spoiler

I think what bothered me the most was that the army of the dead mowed down the Dothraki (although the flaming swords in the distance slowly being extinguished was a great visual) and the Unsullied as if they were complete hacks, but then the main characters could successfully take on hundreds at a time. I know most of them are good fighters, but I can't believe that they're better than thousands of extremely skilled, experienced and disciplined warriors.

 

[DMN in the House]

32 minutes ago, Bobfoc said:

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I think you've touched on some differences between the books and the show here. The show is called "Game of Thrones", so I agree that it makes more sense for the main focus to be on Westerosi politics. That's something I prefer, personally.

On the other hand, the books are called "A Song of Ice and Fire", referring to the prophecy of the prince/princess who will defeat the darkness. I'd expect the Others to be more significant in terms of the endgame there.

 

 

I think it will be similar. The Others have always been more of a pressure on the story than antagonists, are much less developed in the book (no NK to personalize the threat), almost a force of nature, like winter. Not that they couldn't be developed into something more, they just aren't there yet. Basically the entire series has been about politics and war, I don't think (I hope) that doesn't change.

Remember, GRRM added dragons, his story has always been more grounded in realism than fantasy.

[Benjamin]

Spoiler

They killed Ghost this show can fuck off 

 

[Maxx]

2 minutes ago, Benjamin said:

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They killed Ghost this show can fuck off 

 

No they didn't.

This is from the preview of next week's episode

[Benjamin]

2 minutes ago, Maxx said:

No they didn't.

Spoiler

Did he come back after the stupidest vanguard advance I've seen in film or TV? I didn't see him at all.

 

[Maxx]

4 hours ago, Gazz said:

Don't open unless you've seen Endgame
 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

I think the one thing that this episode was missing was a really big 1vX Avengers style bossfight where they all try and attack the Night King at the same time and he's able to fight them with relative ease, think Thanos' battles with multiple Avengers in Infinity War and Endgame. Just to demonstrate how fucked they really are when they're trying to defeat him with brute force. I think if they'd had all the characters (Jon, Jaime, Brienne, Tormund, Pod, Sam, Grey Worm etc.) who were in the main courtyard attack the Night King as he walked through and bring Jorah and Dany in from the inside, then you could have had that battle, kill off a bunch of redshirts and also had Jorah sacrifice himself to protect Dany. Then once the Night King has beat the fuck out of all of them, just have him turn and walk off because he's not interested in them, he wants Bran and nothing else.

It's pretty clear to me that there were two plans in effect at Winterfell, the main plan, which was frankly rubbish and doomed to failure due to a number of factors and Bran's plan, which seemed to rely on the main plan failing. This figures since Bran knew the plan would fail but that it had to fail so he could enact his plan. I'm guessing that since he gave the dagger to Arya in the first place, maybe he'd already seen a vision where she attacks him in the Godswood with Needle or her new staff but is killed. He's basically Dr. Strange, he's seen the one and only way to win, but he's got to move the pieces into place without the 'pieces' realising that he's doing it.

 

 

I didn't need the 1vX, cool as it would have been, because NK had already proven powerful enough to keep everyone on the verge of death with his ability to bring forth overwhelming waves of the dead.  And even if they had gotten past them, there was still zombie dragon, and even if they had gotten past that, there was still his entourage of White Walkers who seemed to serve no purpose in this episode other than showing us how much the Night King likes to roll up to the club with his whole squad.  So I feel like they did a good enough job of saying this guy so powerful he's made it  nearly impossible to even get close to him.   What absolutely was needed though, was a fight between him and Jon Snow.  I'm fine with Arya landing the killing blow, but to never have Jon Snow even fight NK one on one seems like a huge mistake.  That's Jon's villain.  Its like if Luke and Vader never actually fought in Star Wars.

 

7 minutes ago, Benjamin said:

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Did he come back after the stupidest vanguard advance I've seen in film or TV? I didn't see him at all.

 

Didn't see him come back either, but there by the grace of the seven goes Ghost!

[Ruki]

I was just reading up on some book spoiler stuff for fun and...

 

Lady Stoneheart kills Breinne and Pod?! What the fuck. I'm glad she's not in the show! :@

[Bobfoc]

15 minutes ago, Ruki said:

I was just reading up on some book spoiler stuff for fun and...

 

 

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Lady Stoneheart kills Breinne and Pod?! What the fuck. I'm glad she's not in the show! :@

 

Spoiler

Well, that was the cliffhanger at the end of A Feast for Crows. Lady Stoneheart sentences them to death by hanging if they don't agree to find Jaime and bring him to the Brotherhood Without Banners. As they're hanging, Brienne gets distressed at the sight of Podrick dying, and so she yells out a then unrevealed word. George RR Martin has since said that the word was "sword", referring to Stoneheart's demand that she chooses between the rope (being executed) and the sword (turning on Jaime).

At the end of A Dance With Dragons, when Jaime is laying siege to Riverrun, Brienne turns up unharmed. She convinces Jaime to help her save Sansa, and it's unclear as to whether she's being genuine or tricking Jaime to carry out her oath to Catelyn.

 

[Your Mom]

I'm happy

 

Spoiler

Sam lived because him and his family are one of my favorite parts of the show but it was kinda dumb how many different things he survived. It got to be a bit much. There is no reason he should have made it

 

[Azazel]

49 minutes ago, Maxx said:

 

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I didn't need the 1vX, cool as it would have been, because NK had already proven powerful enough to keep everyone on the verge of death with his ability to bring forth overwhelming waves of the dead.  And even if they had gotten past them, there was still zombie dragon, and even if they had gotten past that, there was still his entourage of White Walkers who seemed to serve no purpose in this episode other than showing us how much the Night King likes to roll up to the club with his whole squad.  So I feel like they did a good enough job of saying this guy so powerful he's made it  nearly impossible to even get close to him.   What absolutely was needed though, was a fight between him and Jon Snow.  I'm fine with Arya landing the killing blow, but to never have Jon Snow even fight NK one on one seems like a huge mistake.  That's Jon's villain.  Its like if Luke and Vader never actually fought in Star Wars.

 

 

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Didn't see him come back either, but there by the grace of the seven goes Ghost!

 

Spoiler

That story has almost entirely avoided having the cliche hero fights bad guy and wins arcs.  Jon just wanted to stop the dead, he didn’t have a personal vengeance against The Night King anyway.