House of the Dragon (Game of Thrones) Thread

[Benjamin]

4 hours ago, Lint said:

About the whole naval thing...

 

  Hide contents

Dany didn't even see the ships until she came around a cliff.  If she couldn't see them from the sky, they couldn't see her from the water, no line of sight.  Yet they had already started firing at her...so where they shooting through the cliff?

And the Scorpion was never that strong before.  The last time we saw one, it barely went through the dragons scales and just pissed the dragon off more.  Now it was completely able to tear through its neck?  Apparently, the writers did address this in that commentary aftershow, saying they were "upgraded and more powerful versions"...which is just shit writing because that wasn't explained in the actual episode at all.  One line could've solved that issue..."Qyburns new version of the Scorpion killed a dragon" or something like that.

And how the fuck did Euron get Missandei?  Did he have Kraken Team 6 waiting in the water, ready to grab her?  His fleet wasn't close enough to get her when everyone was in the water.

This is like the 4th or 5th time Euron has, somehow, been able to sneak a massive fleet of ships up on people with no one noticing.  I know in the books he's a super powerful sorcerer and can actually do that, but since that hasn't been addressed on the show it just comes off as Euron ex Machina and stupid

 

Spoiler

It's because the writing has sadly been shit because they just want to wind it all up. It used to at least be a shit ton better than this. Episode 2 was incredible, because everything was grounded and not fast forwarded because the writers just wanted to wrap it up. I feel now that as good as that episode was, if they really wanted to do all these big moves they shouldn't have wasted the second one on what was essentially a bottle episode.

 

[Gazz]

Game of Thrones has fell into the same problem as WWE. When Ned died, people were angry at Joffrey for being a psychopath. When Robb died, people were angry at the Freys and Roose Bolton for betraying him. When Rhaegal died, people were angry at the writers. They're 'booking moments', rather than building a storyline with a logical conclusion.

[C-MIL]

16 minutes ago, Gazz said:

Game of Thrones has fell into the same problem as WWE. When Ned died, people were angry at Joffrey for being a psychopath. When Robb died, people were angry at the Freys and Roose Bolton for betraying him. When Rhaegal died, people were angry at the writers. They're 'booking moments', rather than building a storyline with a logical conclusion.

Also the overriding theme of sexual tension between family members.

[Daniel Bryan]

20 minutes ago, Gazz said:

Game of Thrones has fell into the same problem as WWE. When Ned died, people were angry at Joffrey for being a psychopath. When Robb died, people were angry at the Freys and Roose Bolton for betraying him. When Rhaegal died, people were angry at the writers. They're 'booking moments', rather than building a storyline with a logical conclusion.

That comes down to Ned and Robb being killed in the books, and you can't be angry at the writers for that because it wasn't their idea. If it happened today, people would be making the same complaints.

[MDK]

Its like the allies have no concept of air superiority. If Dragonlady was in charge of the RAF during the second world war two we'd all be speaking American.

[Gazz]

36 minutes ago, Daniel Bryan said:

That comes down to Ned and Robb being killed in the books, and you can't be angry at the writers for that because it wasn't their idea. If it happened today, people would be making the same complaints.

I don't think they would. Using Ned as an example, he'd been betrayed by Littlefinger, who we had been shown was not to be trusted. We'd been shown that Ned was naive to the political games going on. We'd been shown that Joffrey was a sadistic little bastard who made decisions on a whim. We'd been shown that Cersei couldn't control his worst impulses and we'd been shown that he took pleasure in inflicting suffering on Sansa. His execution of Ned wasn't all that shocking when you look at the events leading up to it.

I know they're trying to cram everything in and tie up a hundred plot points in one season but the season eight equivalent of Ned's death would have been a scene where he's talking to Jory and Joffrey skips up behind him and casually shoots him in the back of the head with a crossbow, just as a reason to make Robb rebel.

[Mx. Canadian Destroyer]

3 hours ago, Daniel Bryan said:

That comes down to Ned and Robb being killed in the books, and you can't be angry at the writers for that because it wasn't their idea. If it happened today, people would be making the same complaints.

I'm not as down on this season as most people seem to be but there is a huge difference between what happened in the last episodes and what happened to Ned and Robb.

Both of their deaths were the result of very well-written, intricate story telling. I'm going to put this in spoilers but let's examine Robb's death and a moment from the last episode.

Spoiler

Robb is supposed to marry one of Walder's daughters. Instead, he marries Jeyne. In order to try and repair the relationship, Edmure agrees to marry a Frey. Everyone is at the wedding and it's the perfect trap for Walder to gain revenge on the Starks. He kills everyone because they are all trapped in his home.

Then let's look at Cersei killing Missandei. Ignoring the fact that they somehow managed to capture her, he has Dany, Grey Worm, Tyrion and a dragon in her sight. Why don't they kill any of them. Because the writers wanted the moment of Missandei's head being chopped off, rather than looking at what the characters would probably do. I see no reason why Cersei doesn't kill everyone there. It feels like a caricature of evil. 

 

[The Kraig]

Note: I actually wrote this the other day, but didn't want to post it because I felt like I was just complaining for no reason. In summary, I just feel like there's a lot of holes in the plot this season which I hope is intentional. Either way, I'm not trying to be negative, there's just a lot bothering me and I felt the need to write it down.

Been watching week to week for season eight and things aren't having the impact on me that I expected them to. I'm obviously not the only one. I'm still invested of course, but things just feel oddly flat.

 

The battle at Winterfell felt like an anticlimax. I know some people described it as 'epic' but I didn't get that feeling at all. Bizarre defence strategy, a total lack of real suspense following the suicide mission of the Dothraki, certain characters acting contrary to their usual behaviour without explanation, and a host of 'meh' level deaths which should have meant a lot more. Episode four had some interesting moments, but again I felt little for what was going on and I can't quite figure out why. Losing another dragon to a seemingly obvious ambush had no impact for me. I guess it depends on which characters you're most invested in. So far all the 'leaders' of season eight come across as inept despite what should be huge stakes...except maybe Cersei. Which annoys me. Maybe it's the convey high emotion or overconfidence getting the better of some of them, but it's not really portrayed that way outside of Daenerys' reactions (and over-reactions) to some things. Otherwise wary and wise characters like Ser Davos or Tyrion don't ask obvious questions. What else lies north? Who claimed Melisandre's necklace and can it be useful? Why not create a plan to assassinate Cersei (and possibly The Mountain) before charging into a war if it can be wholly avoided? Why travel by sea whatsoever when they're aware of the threat on the open ocean? Why are the Wildlings returning to the wastes so soon when they are likely going to be needed to overthrow Cersei, who would definitely try to wipe them out? Why doesn't Cersei just obliterate the army that shows up to her front door like they did with the ships/dragon and declare the game over? Why is Gendry such a clown, who will inevitably be a huge figure come the final episode? The storytelling just seems very silly at the moment, but hopefully the next two episodes give some satisfying answers, since they may not be showing everything that's happening on screen. I feel unfulfilled when I have so many questions which should probably be answered, or at least explained away in a couple of scenes.

Also, did anyone else fully expect Jon to die in that episode? The instant betrayal of Daenerys' wishes by telling others of his bloodline, and those goodbyes to Tormund, Sam and Ghost...that made me suddenly suspicious. But then, nothing. I guess they're keeping any fallout for the next episode. Can't predict a thrice-bereaved crazy dragon queen. Speaking of which, does she even care that 99% of the Dothraki and half her Unsullied are now dead? I guess it's supposed to show how tunnel-visioned she has become on the Iron Throne but man, it just feels odd for her character, especially when she's so upset about Jora and Missandei.

And small pet peeve, but Theon's death has the be the most pathetic death in the series so far. He looked like an idiot. Somewhat brave, but mostly stupid. He could have at least shown some of his pain tolerance from Ramsey and kept fighting, or try to fake out the Night King. I'd have really enjoyed that, but instead he redeemed himself by basically killing himself to give an eventual hero about 30 seconds to intervene and save Bran. Ugh, it annoys me now even just remembering it.

On an aside, are the books worth picking up? I never read them and finally gave in and binge-watched the series when season seven dropped. I kind of wish I'd read the books first, since the show has probably ruined a lot for me. Still worth reading, folks?

Edited May 8, 2019 by The Kraig

[Roster Depth Sicko No. 2]

Books are way better in my opinion.

[Bobfoc]

6 minutes ago, Jericode said:

Books are way better in my opinion.

If we're comparing the first four series and the accompanying books, I'd put them at the same level, honestly. Beyond that, though? The books, easily.

3 hours ago, Gazz said:

I don't think they would. Using Ned as an example, he'd been betrayed by Littlefinger, who we had been shown was not to be trusted. We'd been shown that Ned was naive to the political games going on. We'd been shown that Joffrey was a sadistic little bastard who made decisions on a whim. We'd been shown that Cersei couldn't control his worst impulses and we'd been shown that he took pleasure in inflicting suffering on Sansa. His execution of Ned wasn't all that shocking when you look at the events leading up to it.

I know they're trying to cram everything in and tie up a hundred plot points in one season but the season eight equivalent of Ned's death would have been a scene where he's talking to Jory and Joffrey skips up behind him and casually shoots him in the back of the head with a crossbow, just as a reason to make Robb rebel.

I think this touches on exactly why the show is different now. I saw an interesting video that explained how the earlier series (and, obviously, the books) focused on more of a "cause and effect" approach to storytelling, meaning that the big moments were ones that made sense with hindsight. We're now, as you said, looking at the WWE style of "payoff" writing, as in bee-lining towards dramatic moments without as much regard for how logically sound they are.

I'm not wishing to be overly negative here because I do still enjoy watching and talking about the show. It's just that its appeal now is different from the style that drew me to the story and its characters in the first place.

[FLiam]

Basically, it comes down to that the TV writers for this show have nothing on the story-telling ability of George R.R. Martin. The change in tone since they ran out of book material has been evident. 

[gunnar hendershow]

8 hours ago, Ms. Canadian Destroyer said:

I'm not as down on this season as most people seem to be but there is a huge difference between what happened in the last episodes and what happened to Ned and Robb.

Both of their deaths were the result of very well-written, intricate story telling. I'm going to put this in spoilers but let's examine Robb's death and a moment from the last episode.

  Hide contents

Robb is supposed to marry one of Walder's daughters. Instead, he marries Jeyne. In order to try and repair the relationship, Edmure agrees to marry a Frey. Everyone is at the wedding and it's the perfect trap for Walder to gain revenge on the Starks. He kills everyone because they are all trapped in his home.

Then let's look at Cersei killing Missandei. Ignoring the fact that they somehow managed to capture her, he has Dany, Grey Worm, Tyrion and a dragon in her sight. Why don't they kill any of them. Because the writers wanted the moment of Missandei's head being chopped off, rather than looking at what the characters would probably do. I see no reason why Cersei doesn't kill everyone there. It feels like a caricature of evil. 

 

With regards to your spoiler

I think her plan is pretty clearly to force Dany to kill civilians in King's Landing. As she has gradually become more and more ruthless and heartless as the show has gone on she's shown what's more or less contempt for the people she rules. Mainly because for her to live she has to rule, the minute she loses the throne she's dead. After all "when you play the game of thrones, you play to win". So if she just rained arrows down on Dany and Tyrion then she fuels any growing resentment towards her in the Seven Kingdoms. By forcing Dany to be the one to strike the first blow she's making it so that Dany is the one who the people need to fear. I didn't think of that as a particularly out-of-character moment.

The whole "not seeing all the boats when she's flying high on a dragon" and "they somehow captured one person and that one person was Missandei" is some poor writing but it's also the symptom of them crushing everything together. They're TV writers and it really shows in this season where the episodes are very, typical, to TV. Early seasons when they had the books they basically followed them and could just structure the episode around the dramatic few moments in between the intrigue. Now that they don't have the books as an outline they're clearly writing each episode to force themselves into the dramatic moments. Where they used to feel more organic, they're forced now. I also think since they went off in their own direction for a lot of things in seasons 6 and 7 they're now trying to bring it all home to line up closely with GRRM's outline about what the end would look like. They likely took a different road to get there but I think the end of the final book will look similar to the end of the series. And given the way it's being received by a lot of people might help explain why GRRM has been so slow putting out Winds of Winter. He himself isn't satisfied with his planned ending.

[Mx. Canadian Destroyer]

2 minutes ago, damsher hatfield said:

With regards to your spoiler

 

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I think her plan is pretty clearly to force Dany to kill civilians in King's Landing. As she has gradually become more and more ruthless and heartless as the show has gone on she's shown what's more or less contempt for the people she rules. Mainly because for her to live she has to rule, the minute she loses the throne she's dead. After all "when you play the game of thrones, you play to win". So if she just rained arrows down on Dany and Tyrion then she fuels any growing resentment towards her in the Seven Kingdoms. By forcing Dany to be the one to strike the first blow she's making it so that Dany is the one who the people need to fear. I didn't think of that as a particularly out-of-character moment.

The whole "not seeing all the boats when she's flying high on a dragon" and "they somehow captured one person and that one person was Missandei" is some poor writing but it's also the symptom of them crushing everything together. They're TV writers and it really shows in this season where the episodes are very, typical, to TV. Early seasons when they had the books they basically followed them and could just structure the episode around the dramatic few moments in between the intrigue. Now that they don't have the books as an outline they're clearly writing each episode to force themselves into the dramatic moments. Where they used to feel more organic, they're forced now. I also think since they went off in their own direction for a lot of things in seasons 6 and 7 they're now trying to bring it all home to line up closely with GRRM's outline about what the end would look like. They likely took a different road to get there but I think the end of the final book will look similar to the end of the series. And given the way it's being received by a lot of people might help explain why GRRM has been so slow putting out Winds of Winter. He himself isn't satisfied with his planned ending.

 

Spoiler

That is actually a very good point as to why Cersei didn't just wipe them out right there. 

 

[gunnar hendershow]

1 minute ago, Ms. Canadian Destroyer said:

  Reveal hidden contents

That is actually a very good point as to why Cersei didn't just wipe them out right there. 

 

Either Daenerys has to kill civilians or she has to fight a long, protracted war against Cersei and a much larger army. If Daenerys plans to kill civilians just to get to the Iron Throne people will think of her as a tyrant and many of her own people may stop following her--mainly the north. By forcing them to pull away, and take The Vale with them, Daenerys has a small army of Unsullied, a few Dothraki, and evidently Dorne. That's not enough. Whereas if Cersei did rain down arrows on the small group at the gate, the North, The Vale, Dorne, and the remaining Unsullied and Dothraki would have justification to charge into King's Landing.

This kind of scheming is why I genuinely think Martin was especially detailed about the events in this final act, and that Benioff & Weiss are following them closely.

[Mick]

 

Oh, Pod...

 

"Hey ladies, my initials are PP. Wanna find out why?"

 

[Ruki]

I saw that during the episode! Pod is 100% stud. 

[Schlitzbrille]

1 hour ago, Ruki said:

I saw that during the episode! Pod is 100% stud. 

They don't call him Pod the Rod for shits and giggles

[Lint]

 

[Roster Depth Sicko No. 2]

I fear I've seen a huge spoiler. Time will tell.

[Schlitzbrille]

4 minutes ago, Jericode said:

I fear I've seen a huge spoiler. Time will tell.

PM me it?