House of the Dragon (Game of Thrones) Thread

[Gazz]

On Dany
 

Spoiler

 

She said earlier in the episode, you either have love or you have fear. She doesn't have the love of the people, so she needs to instill fear. She's also pretty obviously paranoid and has lost the plot. She's not seeing innocent people, she's seeing people that flocked into Kings Landing to act as human shields for Cersei.

She's trusted five people in her life, two of the are dead and she thinks two of them are plotting against her. She's only really got Grey Worm left and he's overcome with a lust for revenge too by the looks of it.

 

On Grey Worm

Spoiler

I can totally see him attacking Jon in the final episode because he think he's betraying Dany. Probably not going to end well for him.

On Arya

Spoiler

Might be miles off but I'm wondering if Bran was warged into that horse.

Arya was in Kings Landing because she had to see what 'death' is really. To Arya, death has always been deserved, it's almost always been quick and clean. Now she's seen death and how it can be slow, painful, brutal and can be inflicted on the innocent by the hundreds.

Arya went to Kings Landing to kill a queen, after seeing the devastation she's seen and experienced now, she still might...

On Sandor

Spoiler

Sandor, who was pushed into the fire by Gregor, got his revenge by pushing Gregor into the fire.

 

[Jimmy]

1 hour ago, Gazz said:

On Dany
 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

She said earlier in the episode, you either have love or you have fear. She doesn't have the love of the people, so she needs to instill fear. She's also pretty obviously paranoid and has lost the plot. She's not seeing innocent people, she's seeing people that flocked into Kings Landing to act as human shields for Cersei.

She's trusted five people in her life, two of the are dead and she thinks two of them are plotting against her. She's only really got Grey Worm left and he's overcome with a lust for revenge too by the looks of it.

 

On Grey Worm

  Reveal hidden contents

I can totally see him attacking Jon in the final episode because he think he's betraying Dany. Probably not going to end well for him.

On Arya

  Reveal hidden contents

Might be miles off but I'm wondering if Bran was warged into that horse.

Arya was in Kings Landing because she had to see what 'death' is really. To Arya, death has always been deserved, it's almost always been quick and clean. Now she's seen death and how it can be slow, painful, brutal and can be inflicted on the innocent by the hundreds.

Arya went to Kings Landing to kill a queen, after seeing the devastation she's seen and experienced now, she still might...

On Sandor

  Reveal hidden contents

Sandor, who was pushed into the fire by Gregor, got his revenge by pushing Gregor into the fire.

 

I think that's the thing - yeah, on paper all those thing read well, but the execution of getting there (for me, personally) has been sloppy and unconvincing. The show isn't anywhere near as emotionally engaging as it has been, their art of storytelling has fallen by the wayside as they work through ticking the boxes in order to wrap up the story. 

[Gazz]

Oh definitely, if I hadn't read the books, I wouldn't be able to infer half that stuff.

[FLiam]

Spoiler

I feel that the episode was built around CelganeBowl.

I mean, obviously it had to be an epic showdown which ended with them both falling from a great height into a huge pit of fire. So I’m guessing the writers were perplexed how to get this done and a lightbulb moment occurred “Ah, let’s get Dany to burn the entire city”. That’s definitely what happened.

I definitely covered my eyes when the Mountain was squeezing the Hound’s face though. 

That whole showdown was 100% the highlight of the episode, by far. 

I’m disappointed with the way Jaime and Cersei went out though. 

 

[Adam]

Spoiler

I'm quite disappointed, and I've been a big defender of this season against critiques of it until now.

Dany, I'm actually fine with all of her actions here in the story sense because they have been building to this. She's always had hints of this madness, and ruthlessness, and over the past few episodes she has lost her entire support base essentially.

But Cersei and Jaime's demise was an anti-climax. Killed by rubble? Perhaps it's a bit like...we thought the Night King was the major villain, then he's swiftly killed off. Okay, so Cersei is the main villain...killed by a ceiling. Okay, I guess the real major villain is Dany instead. But the burning of all the innocent people had already cemented that one in the viewers' eyes.

Sander v Mountain was pretty ace, as was Qyburn's death scene. A bizarre but satisfying sequence, one of the few things in this episode that was satisfying really.

The Arya stuff rather baffled me but I liked Gazz's explanation of it.

The Northmen becoming murder-rape-pillagers at the drop of a hat? Hated that. I get it with the Dothraki, I can somewhat get it with the Unsullied especially as they are following the orders of a very broken Grey Worm, but why did the Northmen suddenly jump at the opportunity to ransack an innocent city?

Not sure what else there was...this episode ended with me feeling rather disappointed, I think primarily with the plots for Jaime, Cersei and Arya, and also with the lack of explanation for a lot of people's sudden switches in behaviour. I am extremely disappointed that Varys was despatched with within 10 minutes as well, what was that all about? He's been in this since the very start but has been written so, so lazily for the past couple of seasons.

All a bit of a mess, really.

 

[Ruki]

I can sorta understand the Northerners thing.

They hate the southerners, they are being forced to travel all that way after surviving an undead army, promised a big battle that didn't really get to happen... So they ended up releasing their pent up rage and aggressive

[MalaCloudy Black]

This season will be the reason people go "GoT, best show of all-time? Nah." They'll go "look at season 8, but especially episode 5."

[Azazel]

1 hour ago, Adam said:

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I'm quite disappointed, and I've been a big defender of this season against critiques of it until now.

Dany, I'm actually fine with all of her actions here in the story sense because they have been building to this. She's always had hints of this madness, and ruthlessness, and over the past few episodes she has lost her entire support base essentially.

But Cersei and Jaime's demise was an anti-climax. Killed by rubble? Perhaps it's a bit like...we thought the Night King was the major villain, then he's swiftly killed off. Okay, so Cersei is the main villain...killed by a ceiling. Okay, I guess the real major villain is Dany instead. But the burning of all the innocent people had already cemented that one in the viewers' eyes.

Sander v Mountain was pretty ace, as was Qyburn's death scene. A bizarre but satisfying sequence, one of the few things in this episode that was satisfying really.

The Arya stuff rather baffled me but I liked Gazz's explanation of it.

The Northmen becoming murder-rape-pillagers at the drop of a hat? Hated that. I get it with the Dothraki, I can somewhat get it with the Unsullied especially as they are following the orders of a very broken Grey Worm, but why did the Northmen suddenly jump at the opportunity to ransack an innocent city?

Not sure what else there was...this episode ended with me feeling rather disappointed, I think primarily with the plots for Jaime, Cersei and Arya, and also with the lack of explanation for a lot of people's sudden switches in behaviour. I am extremely disappointed that Varys was despatched with within 10 minutes as well, what was that all about? He's been in this since the very start but has been written so, so lazily for the past couple of seasons.

All a bit of a mess, really.

 

Spoiler

Westerosi people have never been innocent when it comes to raping women when sacking a city, so it’s not like the Northmen are above that.  If anything it’s more out of character for the Dothraki to do since their Queen forbade it... but she’s also decided to kill the entire city so that’s probably out the window.

 

[JasonM]

To above.

The Northerners sacking the city wasn't a contrivance, and they held themselves back until Jon got attacked which they probably saw as full reason to start the shitfest and it all spiraled from there.

Also the North has plenty of rage inside of them aimed at the South/Lannisters. From the murders of Ned/Cat/Robb, to Roose Bolton running the north, Rickon's death (due to Roose/Ramsay's rule thanks to the Lannisters), to them betraying the North when they needed them to fight off the Night King.

It's just the same issues though that it's poorly explained, and that even a few sentences here and there could've made it make more sense to a viewer without needing to read between the lines a ridiculous amount.

[LUKIE]

Emily and I have just started GOT from the beginning (she has never seen it) and it's so hard to not sit there and explain things to her especially since Season 1 is terrible at explaining who people are from the start.

[Schlitzbrille]

20 minutes ago, Barbaro CaverLUKIEo said:

Emily and I have just started GOT from the beginning (she has never seen it) and it's so hard to not sit there and explain things to her especially since Season 1 is terrible at explaining who people are from the start.

Wait until you get to Qarth in Season 2. They'll never stop explaining who Xaro Xhoan Daxos is.

[Bobfoc]

22 minutes ago, Barbaro CaverLUKIEo said:

Emily and I have just started GOT from the beginning (she has never seen it) and it's so hard to not sit there and explain things to her especially since Season 1 is terrible at explaining who people are from the start.

I must admit that, even watching the first series when it aired and having an entire week after each episode to think about it, it still wasn't really until around the seventh or eighth episode that I knew who was Theon and who was Robb.

Generally, I wouldn't call it "terrible" at explaining people's identities and backstories, but the sheer number of different characters, some of whom have the same first names, gets quite overwhelming. Plenty of people have given up on the show after watching the first twenty minutes of the first episode, and I can see why.  

[Gazz]

I tried watching it when it first came out and gave up after a couple of episodes since they're were about fifteen nameless white dudes with patchy beards milling about. It was only after reading the first book that I could identify them and their relationships to one another.

[DMN in the House]

2 hours ago, Jasonmufc said:

To above.

 

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The Northerners sacking the city wasn't a contrivance, and they held themselves back until Jon got attacked which they probably saw as full reason to start the shitfest and it all spiraled from there.

Also the North has plenty of rage inside of them aimed at the South/Lannisters. From the murders of Ned/Cat/Robb, to Roose Bolton running the north, Rickon's death (due to Roose/Ramsay's rule thanks to the Lannisters), to them betraying the North when they needed them to fight off the Night King.

It's just the same issues though that it's poorly explained, and that even a few sentences here and there could've made it make more sense to a viewer without needing to read between the lines a ridiculous amount.

 

After watching the post-show, where they explain it wasn't the bells that set Dany off, but instead the Red Keep, her 'family home' and those thoughts that set it off I'm mostly ok with the logic. Once Dany goes off, it makes sense for Grey Worm to be like 'fuck that' and start killing Lannisters because of Missandei.

The North didn't join in until Jon was attacked and defended himself, and you do a good job of explaining why they would.

My issue is they did a real shitty job of setting any of that up, instead leaving it to everyone to think it through. That's not so much a problem for the North's motivation, but it really hurt the moment for Dany, as evidenced by all the memes about bells.

Honestly, outside of Celganebowl this episode was trash. They took 7.8 seasons of Jaime Lannister character development and threw them in the garbage for a shitty fight against Euron and getting buried alive by the Red Keep. No closure for anyone regarding Cersei, who gets crushed by debris in what is actually a really touching scene that made me feel for them. Just a lot of 'subvert expectations' but not in a good creative way like you expect from GRRM, but in a hamfisted Hollywood way.

I'm mostly OK with the Varys, Clegane, and Arya stuff. Varys turns out to have been possibly the only good politician in the history of Westeros who stood by his principles and only made the mistake of trusting the stupidest Imp in Westeros. Not that Varys had much choice but to try and recruit Tyrion.

Cleganebowl was hype and I'm actually really happy with how it went, great closure for both characters. Oberyn Martell gets credit for killing The Mountain, though. 

Arya is interesting because this is the first time she's seen this face of Death and realized she does not like it. I'm interested to see what she does.

Jon gonna kill Dany with Jorah's sword, though.

 

46 minutes ago, Gazz said:

I tried watching it when it first came out and gave up after a couple of episodes since they're were about fifteen nameless white dudes with patchy beards milling about. It was only after reading the first book that I could identify them and their relationships to one another.

I feel like the first season does a great job with the first book, but, yeah, lots of names if you aren't ready for it.

[Maxx]

  Euron's  "I'm the man who killed Jaime Lannister" line has got to be the stupidest goddamn thing in this episode.  I must have forgotten how much he wanted to do that, and how everyone considers it such an amazing achievement because oh wait neither of those things have ever really been mentioned.

[Kaney]

....well that was an episode.

I think, like most episodes this season, I've enjoyed it as I've watched it, but I'm certain once it's all wrapped up and over years from now itll be tough to rewatch since you know this season has fallen off a cliff, storytelling wise.

I liked the scenes with Jaime and Tyrion, and Jaime and Cersei. They had the right amount of emotion to make you realise how serious the situation is but at the same time I wasnt entirely certain they were killed when the roof came in. It was almost the exact same sort of cut that we just seen with Arya when, by all rights, she should have been burned alive on the streets, yet she survived. I agree with the sentiment that it was a good scene for them, but just shot in a really weird way. I dont think it was a bad way to wrap up their journeys as I took it that Jaime was just never going to get over Cersei, no matter how evil she was. He didn't go back on his word, or change his mind, he basically just went and comforted her before the end. It just feels stupid that they had Cersei kill Missandei last episode and make a big deal of facing off against Dany, when the latter wont even know shes dead.

Cleganebowl was really well done I thought. Tyrion and Jon's horror at the events were well done. But pretty much everything else was bizarre. Ok, so we say the Northerners hate the southerners and will take any excuse to rape and pillage etc. Ok. Their very own King of the North, who they love and follow more than Dany herself stops one from attacking a woman and he immediately attempts to fight with him? "Yass, let's get these southern fucks! It's all kicking off now, party time! I'm going to rape the first woman I see! What, my beloved leader says no? FUCK YOU BUDDY!!!" Eh.

What was even the point in the scene with Bronne last time round, given what happens here? It was weird enough at the time.

I think Arya and Tyrion are the only ones left I have time for. Jon is ok, despite knowingly pumping his aunt. But surely this just goes to prove that everyone in Westeros is fucking mental, so theres no really any hope for it to end well. Clearly Dany is the final boss now but honestly I cant even hazard a guess how it's all going to end up.

Is there only one more episode left and that's it?

[Meacon Keaton]

I’ve by no means hated this season, and I know it won’t be by the same writers, but I am a whole lot less excited for the prequel series now than I was a few months ago.

[Kaney]

9 minutes ago, Maxx said:

 

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  Euron's  "I'm the man who killed Jaime Lannister" line has got to be the stupidest goddamn thing in this episode.  I must have forgotten how much he wanted to do that, and how everyone considers it such an amazing achievement because oh wait neither of those things have ever really been mentioned.

 

Ugh, this.

I forgot about Euron. This was very dumb. "That's the sound of a city dying. Because Dany is killing it. Therefore shes won. But I'll kill you and bring Cersei your head! Even though she'll have bigger things to worry about if Dany is fucking killing Kings Landing."

Good one, Euron. Bragging about being the man who killed Jaime Lannister, when no one could possibly ever know that.

[Meacon Keaton]

2 minutes ago, Kaney said:

Ugh, this.

 

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I forgot about Euron. This was very dumb. "That's the sound of a city dying. Because Dany is killing it. Therefore shes won. But I'll kill you and bring Cersei your head! Even though she'll have bigger things to worry about if Dany is fucking killing Kings Landing."

Good one, Euron. Bragging about being the man who killed Jaime Lannister, when no one could possibly ever know that.

 

Spoiler

I think it was more to show just how mental Euron is/was. He’s laying there dying and his last thoughts are that he killed a man who was for so long regarded as the best fighter in the land. It’s him thinking even though he is about to die, he still won. That’s how loco the dude is.

Thats, obviously, just how I interpreted it, though.

 

[Bobfoc]

I've said on a couple of occasions that I didn't think a miniseries based on Robert's Rebellion would be a good idea because the show would have answered any mysteries it held. Now that it's clear that those mysteries will almost certainly go unaddressed in the show canon, I'm leaning towards wanting that series after all.

I'm actually a little surprised that this series is the one that's turning people against the show because I thought that Series 7 was just as guilty of the sins recent episodes have been criticised for. I still think "Beyond the Wall" is my least favourite episode.

1 minute ago, Meacon said:

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I think it was more to show just how mental Euron is/was. He’s laying there dying and his last thoughts are that he killed a man who was for so long regarded as the best fighter in the land. It’s him thinking even though he is about to die, he still won. That’s how loco the dude is.

Thats, obviously, just how I interpreted it, though.

 

Spoiler

I'm sure that's what they were going for, but it's a big point of contention between the books and the show. Book Euron is completely unhinged, but his actions are done for a reason. Show Euron is a cartoon pirate modelled on WWE's Dean Ambrose style of crazy.