The Star Wars Thread

[Skummy]

I love Empire. I've often said that the best thing in Star Wars is the Cantina scene in A New Hope, for the suggestion of a wider universe with a hundred other stories going on other than the one you're watching, but Empire has that in spades too.

Cloud City suggests worlds other than the mono-environments we see in every other Star Wars planet, the presence of Lobot offers up the suggestion of cyborgs - something we hadn't seen in Star Wars before (or since?), and that goes more or less unacknowledged and unexplained which, again, means that not everything needs to be significant and immediately tied into the plot, but can just hint at a larger universe. 

Force Ghosts are introduced, while Luke and Han both get bits of backstory that are hugely significant but don't rely on fan-service. Nowhere does the film feel like it's giving you a nod back to the original, it has a confidence in its storytelling that's lacking in every subsequent movie. It doesn't need another Death Star, a background character cameo, or a reproduction of an earlier scene - it knows it has strong characters, a strong story, and a strong setting. The backstory we get fleshes out those characters and makes their lives seem bigger, rather than the prequels' approach of "Darth Vader built C3PO", which only conspires to make the entire universe feel unnecessarily smaller.

All of it is simply a story told with confidence in everything that makes it work, without ever really feeling the need to hold the audience's hand, and certainly never to say, "hey, remember this from the first movie?!". For that, it stands head and shoulders above the rest.

 

Really my only criticism of Empire is the shift in the portrayal of Darth Vader since A New Hope. In ANH, Vader clearly isn't a commanding officer, or right-hand man to the Emperor, nor is he really a significant figure in the chain of command. He's an "attack dog". He's the "dragon", not the leader. He answers to Tarkin, and other imperial officers feel sufficiently above him in the pecking order to make fun of him. Out of canon, it obviously makes sense now that they knew they had a series and an iconic villain on their hands, and in canon I suppose it could be  explained as an after-effect of the destruction of the Death Star meaning a lot of Imperial high command were killed.

[Bobfoc]

1 hour ago, Skummy said:

Really my only criticism of Empire is the shift in the portrayal of Darth Vader since A New Hope. In ANH, Vader clearly isn't a commanding officer, or right-hand man to the Emperor, nor is he really a significant figure in the chain of command. He's an "attack dog". He's the "dragon", not the leader. He answers to Tarkin, and other imperial officers feel sufficiently above him in the pecking order to make fun of him. Out of canon, it obviously makes sense now that they knew they had a series and an iconic villain on their hands, and in canon I suppose it could be  explained as an after-effect of the destruction of the Death Star meaning a lot of Imperial high command were killed.

This is something that I wasn't keen on as the series progressed. Vader started out as an intimidating figure who did the dirty work (literally a man called "Darth") of the Empire and ended up as Space Jesus by the time the prequels were finished. It makes the officers' mocking of The Force as "your sad devotion to that ancient religion" seem utterly ridiculous when Anakin and the other Jedi were mowing down foes with little more than a stern glance just a few years beforehand.

I've been at the point for a while now where I have no desire for any more Star Wars. I haven't seen any of the Disney films and don't intend to. That's not because I think they'd be bad, but because I liked the ending of the original trilogy and don't want to see my decades-old perception of a pleasant conclusion tarnished. As far as I'm concerned, they all lived happily ever after.

[Hobo]

I love the TLJ because as I said it gives no fucks.

What I mean by that is that it does not have any interest in playing hard on nostalgia. It literally has the sacred jedi texts be destroyed offering up a chance for a fresh start.

It explores new elements to how the force works and how force sensitive people can interact with the world around them.

I like that it eschews the idea that rey is some sort of special one and that the force is a just something some people are born with and can learn to use without the Jedi.

Although the Cantobite stuff is a bit of a diversion it greys the waters of the whole Rebellion/First Order thing by basically showing us that theres a class of people profiteering off of these massive space wars by selling ships to both sides. (Although the fact this was a pointless endeavour is arguably a lesson for Poe who spends the whole film being a hot headed reactionary and not trusting there was any plan).

Rey getting told contrasting stories by Luke and Kylo. That her and Kylo are trying to bring the other to the other side. As well as that her parents arent anything special.

[Maxx]

On 18/12/2019 at 11:36, Maxx said:

I figure I’ll feel exactly the same about it as I felt about Force Awakens and Last Jedi.  Fine movie, not a good as it could be, made choices I’ll question but had a lot of things I enjoyed.

Accurate!

holy shit the first quarter of that movie has way too much happening way too fast. 

Its enjoyable but the whole trilogy is hurt by not having one well planned out story and one creative vision.

[Benjamin]

39 minutes ago, Maxx said:

Accurate!

 

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holy shit the first quarter of that movie has way too much happening way too fast. 

Its enjoyable but the whole trilogy is hurt by not having one well planned out story and one creative vision.

 

Spoiler

 

JJ came in after the Last Jedi and said "Fuck all that trying to reinvent shit. We're going to fan-service and nostalgia-drive all the way to box office heaven!"

I think I would have enjoyed it more if the Force Awakens didn't accomplish all that already, and it did it better.

 

The more I think of Rise of Skywalker, the more I'm just like:

Spoiler

 

Who the hell was wanting an extension of the Palpatine family? Seriously? 

The Rey reveal is the most disappointing thing about the film. Hated it. I think I could have enjoyed this movie so much more if not for this one, dumb thing. 

 

 

[Red Devil-Taker316]

I think ROS is fantastic. I cannot wait to watch it again.

[GhostMachine]

I saw the original six films when they came out in theaters. Actually saw A NEW HOPE twice. I was six when it was released.

But this trilogy, plus ROGUE ONE and SOLO, I have waited until each were released on DVD and Blu-Ray. In fact, I got SOLO on Blu-Ray as soon as it came out....and still have yet to watch it. After hearing some spoilers for ROS (couldn't be avoided), I won't be rushing to a theater to see it, either. 

And Benjamin?

 

The revelation about Rey is absolutely stupid.

Edited December 20, 2019 by GhostMachine

[Maxx]

2 hours ago, Benjamin said:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

JJ came in after the Last Jedi and said "Fuck all that trying to reinvent shit. We're going to fan-service and nostalgia-drive all the way to box office heaven!"

I think I would have enjoyed it more if the Force Awakens didn't accomplish all that already, and it did it better.

 

The more I think of Rise of Skywalker, the more I'm just like:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Who the hell was wanting an extension of the Palpatine family? Seriously? 

The Rey reveal is the most disappointing thing about the film. Hated it. I think I could have enjoyed this movie so much more if not for this one, dumb thing. 

 

 

I could forgive whatever story they wanted to tell with Rey’s family, provided they actually planted seeds for it throughout the trilogy and not just in this final installment.  

[Benjamin]

8 minutes ago, Maxx said:

 

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I could forgive whatever story they wanted to tell with Rey’s family, provided they actually planted seeds for it throughout the trilogy and not just in this final installment.  

 

Spoiler

 

Did Abrams even plan to have Palpatine in this final installment when he was making the Force Awakens? Why not put anything in? So weird.

Plus it was so refreshing that Rey wasn't a part of some fantastic Force dynasty, that she was a nobody but because of her strength of character she was able to harness the force. It's why the last shot of the Last Jedi is of the nameless kid with the Resistance ring, isn't it? That anyone can be great and harness the Force, not just THE MOST IMPORTANT PEOPLE IN THE GALAXY like this. 

At the very least, I could take it if one of her parents was a lowly Jedi or something. This? I don't find it interesting in the least, it's basically the same as Ben's arc with Vader as his grandfather. 

 

 

[SquareRootOfSi]

Spoiler

 

So...watched it last night and thought it was awesome. It felt like a proper Star Wars film, yes there are some issues with it but there are issues with ALL of the films. As I said before, i hated TLJ, so that does colour my opinion somewhat, but I feel like the issues in ROS are mostly down to 'fixing' issues with the last movie. I get the idea that people wanted to try something different, you DONT do that in the 2nd film in a trilogy. Genuinely the joy that TLJ sucked out of Star Wars for me was wiped clean, I thought the main characters (Ren included) had nice character arcs where I actually gave a shit about them again.

Yes, the Rey reveal was a little ugh (and i kinda groaned in the cinema when it happened) but I guess it works? maybe? I agree with someone who posted above that they should have planted those seeds throughout the previous movies which is why it doesn't land as well as it could. I was still holding out that Rey was actually a clone of Luke and that was why her connection was so strong. Its why his Saber 'called' to her and not just because yolo jedi. like do other jedi's light sabers call to other jedi regularly? ppftt no loyalty

 

 

[GoGo Yubari]

I'm glad that movie was for some folks because it was extremely not for me. To me, it felt extremely safe and mostly weightless, and I think probably the one where you can see Disney's fingerprints the clearest. I'm going to be awake with my thoughts for a while so I might as well write them out.

Spoiler

The nice thing I'll say about the Palpatine stuff is that most of the stuff I found really cool, visually speaking, were in scenes with him. I'll also say that Rey shouldn't have been the descendant of absolutely anyone important, but I guess I preferred this to her being a Skywalker by blood somehow. That's where the nice things end. I cannot believe that once JJ Abrams was given the helm again, after a movie where his big idea was "they built a thing that's basically a Death Star," he comes back with "what if there were a bunch of Star Destroyers that can blow planets up? Like the Death Star????"

There weren't really a lot of character moments that landed with me, which is wild because that was pretty much the thing I liked about The Force Awakens. Pretty much every secondary character (read: not Rey, Finn, Poe, Kylo, or Palpatine) felt interchangeable outside of Hux and C3PO. Lando came back and didn't really have any moments that felt like Lando but hey, maybe those will come in the Disney+ series they seemed to shoehorn a setup in for. None of the new characters were of any interest, beyond Keri Russell's character giving Oscar Isaac a couple moments to be charming as he is wont to do (and having her and the droid hacker show up after their planet was blown up was an unbelievable cop out, basically reducing any effectiveness that scene might have had to nothing).

In a lot of ways it felt like Disney had the right idea at the start; you hire JJ Abrams to start something and then by no circumstances do you let him continue it. They shouldn't have backpedaled but it is what it is now. At least I really enjoyed the bit where Finn and Poe played holochess with Chewie? Good old holochess scenes never let me down.

 

[SquareRootOfSi]

Spoiler

 

To also quickly add while it was/is in my head. I felt a couple times throughout this movie that it was a number 2 in a trilogy not the final film. It felt like 2 seperate plots trying to be told at the same time with the same characters that deserved more time.

If I could change a thing (and hey lets pretend its not a trilogy but became 4 movies) have the search for the McGubbins be the entirety of this movie, have the climax be on the ruins of the death star and the 'final' scene being Kylo destroying the McGubbins as he did in the film. Your 'final film' can be stopping the Final Order and you can dedicated more time to space battles, ground war and emotional revelations, over trying to get little spurts of them in 2 hours.

Just my opinion and I REALLY ENJOYED the film so i'm not looking to actually change it

 

 

[Benjamin]

Spoiler

Also, the Chewie reveal was... whaaat.

 

[stokeriño]

Overall, I think I liked it.

[Kaney]

I don't think I'll really remember much of it tbh. I forgot most of TFA as well in terms of stuff not really landing but eh. As a finale, wrap up sort of thing I think it was weak, I agree it would be better if it was a middle film.

ok so the Rey origins reveal. I don't have a problem with it overall. I liked the idea shes a nobody and it all didn't need to be tied in together, but if she absolutely had to be someones family, being a Palpatine is more interesting than being a Skywalker. Except for when she decides at the end to go "lol im actually rey skywalker yolo" anyway.

And was there any reason for Palpatine to be back anyway that I missed? I don't think there was anything to do with him in the Last Jedi at all, was there? The opening scrawl said something about his voice being heard again but it's never explained how or why hes back, was it?

I felt almost every drama beat was wasted. Chewie has been blown up because of Rey's palpatineness! Oh wait theres another transport. Ah but wait, C3P0 will have to sacrifice his memory for the greater good! Oh wait theres some backups so hes just the same. Surely Po's hacker friends are dea-no wait they're in the final battle too. Rey is chucking the lightsabre away oh no heres Ghost Luke to bring it back and also for good measure heres Leia's sabre too.

Finn is clearly in love with Rey and has a burning desire to tell her how he feels but no, let's just forget about that plot point and stick him with the black stormtrooper girl. Stick with your own kind? Bleurgh.

Where did Rey get the gold lightsabre at the end?

There was some good things, I didn't hate it all promise. I liked the voices of everyone basically telling Rey to get up at the end, even noticed Sam Jacksons voice which was a cool touch. I liked the scene with Han especially with it mirroring their scene in TFA. I liked Landos scenes but the cameos did start to feel heavy handed after a while.

It's definitely not a bad film, just not sure how much was really needed and theres tonnes I didn't understand.

[Ruki]

I liked it. I had many emotions.

[Kaney]

Also was the first time I've ever experienced a theatre applauding at the end credits. That was a bizarre feeling.

[GoGo Yubari]

@Kaney Klaus regarding the Palpatine setup...

Spoiler

apparently that message that was said to have been broadcast in... Fortnite. Sure!

There definitely was no setup for it in The Last Jedi but most of the ways RoS and TLJ intersect with each other are kind of perfunctory anyway, probably best epitomized by that scene where Finn's like "hey Rose, wanna be in the main plot of this movie" and Rose declines so she can hang out with Greg Grunberg and Charlie from Lost. (There were more than enough characters in that main plot, to be fair, I doubt Rose would have added much to it.) Abrams has been pretty forthright in branding this movie as a course-correction from that one.

couple more thoughts:

- In a way I loved that the Knights of Ren turned out to be absolutely nothing, because that feels like it's living up to Star Wars' time-honored legacy of introducing characters that look cool and mysterious and not actually doing anything with them, leaving any and all opportunities for them to be compelling characters to the folks writing the novels. With Captain Phasma gone someone had to take up that mantle.

- The Finn stuff felt extremely like Abrams/Disney are just going "hey, ship Finn with whoever you want to ship him with. Rey? Sure! Rose? Okay! Poe? Go for it! Here's this new character, Jannah, you wanna ship Finn with her? Why not, that might be a worthwhile investment after her Disney+ show or whatever!" They only ended up doing one pairing and then Ben conveniently died to leave options wide open.

 

[Kaney]

That's....really tragic.

[gunnar hendershow]

So I didn't hate it. It is probably going to firmly sit at the bottom of non-prequel SW movies though.

Spoiler

The first hour of the movie felt like they were just rewriting everything in TLJ at a breakneck pace. If this was the direction you wanted to go you make it happen in the 2nd movie. Abrams basically treating TLJ like a movie he had to correct teetered this one on the edge.

Once we got all the BS out of the way and Rey gets to the moon of Endor where the Death Star landed it got going. Only gripe is the kiss between her and Ben at the end but whatever, he died. It is more visually dramatic than a hug or a big "Thank you for saving me from the Dark Side, Rey" monologue (though Adam Driver would absolutely kill this speech).

The best stuff came when the 4 main characters were on the screen. Ridley, Boyega, Isaac, and Driver are all so f'n good at this acting thing. With lesser actors this movie would have really trudged along.

I did enjoy Lando being back even though he did nothing. I feel it's a better use of his character for him to be not around for big parts of the Resistance and then magically show up for the final battle. It's a very Lando thing.

The plot point about Rey being Palpatine's grandkid is kinda dumb because it again treats the Force as some genetic thing, but it also made for some really compelling final scenes in the climax so there's that.

SW will keep doing some good stuff with TV shows on D+ and hopefully the Rian Johnson trilogy depending how much of his own thing he's allowed to do.