The Marvel Cinematic Universe TV Thread

[tristy]

I was thinking Loki might introduce Kid Loki (and Lady Loki too, but not as a long term character).

[theshadow]

I feel we will have a Bucky, Falcon, maybe Spider-Man, Ant man, Wasp and some others Secret Avengers (hoping it brings in some Netflix people mostly Luke Cage) Vs Ross/Military/Government backed Dark Avengers/Thunderbolts Phase don't know if it's this one but I doubt it. Then later the phase that brings the Young Avengers properly together.

[Red Devil-Taker316]

Spoiler

I think my biggest issue so far is that Falcon and WS feels a little stuck in the past. With WandaVision we're doing all types and magic and stuff, IW/Endgame of course did time travel and had tons of out of Earth creatures, but here it's all super soldiers and connections to Hydra and I'm a bit over it all.

 

[Skummy]

8 hours ago, Red Devil-Taker316 said:

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I think my biggest issue so far is that Falcon and WS feels a little stuck in the past. With WandaVision we're doing all types and magic and stuff, IW/Endgame of course did time travel and had tons of out of Earth creatures, but here it's all super soldiers and connections to Hydra and I'm a bit over it all.

 

Spoiler

That's always been the MCU's thing, though - trying to juggle the magic elements of Thor and Dr Strange, the intergalactic side of Guardians Of The Galaxy, and the more political intrigue aspect of Captain America and SHIELD, and only bringing them together for big crossover Events.

 

I'm not enjoying this one. I agree that the Bucky/Falcon dynamic seems forced, and neither come out of it as particularly likeable characters, or as having any believable pre-existing relationship.

They seem to want to be doing something deep and insightful about reckoning with the effects of The Blip, but just don't have the writing chops to pull it off in any meaningful way.

Maybe I'm just burned out on the "they're superheroes, but really sad about it" trope, and just counting down the episodes until it inevitably becomes the Marvel-by-the-numbers CGI fight finale.

 

[gunnar hendershow]

Spoiler

I think they're going to really flub this one. Marvel Studios typically shies away from making any political statements, but through two episodes they've basically backed themselves into a corner here with regards to that. I just don't see them being hyper-critical on US imperialism and militarism in this show, and that's a problem. Also the entire fact we're being told what happened during The Blip and how it's after effects are apparently chaotic is kind of glossing over what's the biggest event in humanity's history. The Blip needs to be more than just a backdrop for a villainous group's motivations. But in WV and now this that's all it really is getting treated as.

I think we know what the outcomes of this are going to wind up being and the only real question is if there's any new twists introduced between now and then that affect the overall MCU.

 

[GoGo Yubari]

Spoiler

I'm mostly enjoying it. I think I agree that while Sebastian Stan and Anthony Mackie are doing alright with it their banter feels a little more inspired by a desire to do a buddy action thing than it being a genuine extension of their characters. Of course, I also feel like after all this time Bucky is still a character we're only really getting to know now, so.

I really really really like that they're exploring the Truth: Red, White, and Black idea, though. It's tough because I went in with incredibly low expectations about how this show was going to end up doing politics and now between suggesting that the Flag-Smashers are not the villains of the piece, invoking institutional racism the way they have multiple times in this second one, and John Walker's entire energy here feeling like he's going to reveal himself to be the prick he is in the comics they have me at a place where I can just be furious when they fuck it up.

 

[tristy]

"Only an American would assume a fashion forward black man looks like a pimp."

Spoiler

Zemo is great. They're finally leaning into the Baron part of his name. That fuckin' coat, geez. I love it. And the mask is pretty badass, too.

Sharon Carter, good or bad? Some theories online that she could be working for either the Power Broker or with the Flag Smashers, or maybe even be the Power Broker. I doubt it, but something is up with her. She's definitely not the Sharon we last saw in Civil War.

MADRIPOOR! That's exciting, I want to spend more time in that place.

Karli straight up just becoming a terrorist with the car bomb is a little disappointing, I was starting to root for the Flag Smashers.

Zemo mentioning that Sokovia's neighbors cannibalized the country before the rubble had even been sorted through makes me wonder if Latveria is in the future.

Ayo from Black Panther cameo at the end! Not exactly a shock, since you've gotta assume Wakanda wants revenge for T'Chaka's death still. I wonder why Okoye or Nakia wasn't chosen for this, since it would have been a better reveal. Ayo is probably the 3rd most recognizable member of the Dora Milaje after Okoye and Nakia (ex-member), but it's a hell of a drop off after those two. I suspect we get a T'Challa cameo pretty soon. It would line up with how the director says an episode in the near future will make people cry. And this was filmed back in 2019, with reshoots last year, so it's possible. Chadwick was finishing up filming of Ma Rainey's Black Bottom when this was ramping up to film.

 

[Hellraiser]

Okay, this is probably just me nitpicking, but

Spoiler

Did they really just put Helmut Zemo in some low-security German prison where causing a fistfight between inmates is enough of a distraction to enable you to just walk out of there? Wasn't he in some high-security prison the last time we saw him at the end of Civil War? How did he end up at some random JVA in Berlin? 

Also was that part that took place in Munich actually shot in Munich? Becuase that didn't really look like Munich to me. 

 

[Daniel Bryan]

Spoiler

So Steve and Natasha waltzed back in to the States after openly committing treason, but Sharon couldn't after secretly helping them out? And then for five years she never thought to ask them for help? And now she somehow thinks Falcon can get her a pardon? The guy who just broke a war criminal out of prison for basically no reason; although tough to hold that against him when it seems like Zemo could have walked out at any time, since all it took was a minor scuffle which I guess has never happened in this maximum security prison before, and he... phased through the glass in his cell?

That's before you even get into why Sam was pretending to be somebody completely irrelevant to the plan - because all black guys look the same I guess - except the barman clearly suspected something, or why else would he be staring him down until he drank that shot, which I guess proved he was the real guy even though he has a different face, but good thing Sam did get in so he could blow their cover after the dealer forced him to answer his phone on speaker because... the real Smiling Tiger (who, again, she didn't know) would never receive a phone call?

The show wasn't great before, but this episode turned a corner into aggressively stupid. 

Edited April 2, 2021 by Daniel Bryan

[GoGo Yubari]

Spoiler

Yeah, this episode veered between fun dumb (the comic bookification of Zemo so he's gone from a cunning, determined man with a deep grudge to... well, Baron Zemo) and unbelievably "what the fuck are you doing?" dumb for me. That phone call scene, woof.

 

[Hellraiser]

Spoiler

Taking Sam along in the first place was stupid. Surely a room full of career criminals would recognize a goddamn Avenger even if he wasn't one of the more prominent ones. 

 

[tristy]

4 hours ago, Hellraiser said:

Okay, this is probably just me nitpicking, but

  Hide contents

Did they really just put Helmut Zemo in some low-security German prison where causing a fistfight between inmates is enough of a distraction to enable you to just walk out of there? Wasn't he in some high-security prison the last time we saw him at the end of Civil War? How did he end up at some random JVA in Berlin? 

Also was that part that took place in Munich actually shot in Munich? Becuase that didn't really look like Munich to me. 

 

Spoiler

He was still in the Joint Counter Terrorist Centre when he broke out.

 

[Hellraiser]

12 minutes ago, tristy said:

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He was still in the Joint Counter Terrorist Centre when he broke out.

 

Spoiler

I guess I was confused because what we saw of the center in the show looked nothing like what we saw of it in Civil War.

 And it makes it even weirder that security seems to be so lax in that place.  

 

[gunnar hendershow]

Spoiler

That was dumb as hell. I like dumb as hell for what it's worth but everything with Zemo was so silly and felt very out of place for what we've seen in the MCU, specifically how he basically turned into a bumbling criminal.

I get that there's a ton of anger at the new Captain America, but it was basically forced upon us after one scene. "Oh I don't like this guy, he's pretty annoying, time to break a criminal out of prison since I don't think we can work together" is hard enough to justify in a movie when you're running on a limited schedule. Even harder with a TV show.

It's obviously heading towards a couple threads converging but the main thread we've seen for 3 episodes has been largely not that good.

 

[Kaney]

Yeah, quite disappointed with that episode.

Spoiler

The best part about Civil War was that Zemo wasn't an over the top, gimmicky supervillian, just a normal down to earth guy with a grudge and he did the most damage to the Avengers than anyone else ever managed (before Thanos). His comic-accurate costume was cool to see on screen but that along with the hilariously casual "oh by the way I'm mega rich with a private jet, a butler and I'm actually a Baron" line was such a departure from the previous incarnation. I like both versions but they don't really work in the same person.

The Madripoor scene was daft as well. I don't care if you live in the furthest, poorest country in the world from America, after the snap there's no chance on earth if you're savvy enough to know who the Winter Soldier is, you don't recognise a fuckin Avenger, let alone the one who's *also* always associated with Captain America.

I'd actually have preferred to see more of new Cap, since there's only what 3 more episodes to go? Struggling to think this morning what the actual point of the episode was. Didn't really move anything on except Zemo is out of jail for some reason.

 

[Lint]

6 minutes ago, Kaney said:

Yeah, quite disappointed with that episode.

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I'd actually have preferred to see more of new Cap, since there's only what 3 more episodes to go? Struggling to think this morning what the actual point of the episode was. Didn't really move anything on except Zemo is out of jail for some reason.

 

Yea, I can't remember where it was, but I read something tonight that pointed out all the insane plot threads this show would need to close in 3 episodes.

The ones I can remember
 

Spoiler

 

Sam and his family business

Sam becoming Captain America (since the trailers shows him practicing with the shield)

The Flag Smashers (since this episode elevated them from "sympathetic antagonists" to "murdering terrorists")

John Walker going from Captain America to nationalistic US Agent (this episode did kind of plant those seeds)

Wakanda hunting down Zemo

Buckys apology list

Sharron Carter

 

There are probably a few I'm forgetting

[gunnar hendershow]

2 hours ago, Lint said:

Yea, I can't remember where it was, but I read something tonight that pointed out all the insane plot threads this show would need to close in 3 episodes.

The ones I can remember
 

  Hide contents

 

Sam and his family business

Sam becoming Captain America (since the trailers shows him practicing with the shield)

The Flag Smashers (since this episode elevated them from "sympathetic antagonists" to "murdering terrorists")

John Walker going from Captain America to nationalistic US Agent (this episode did kind of plant those seeds)

Wakanda hunting down Zemo

Buckys apology list

Sharron Carter

 

There are probably a few I'm forgetting

Spoiler

Have to think not all of the plot threads are getting closed and some are being used to introduce characters/concepts that will be explored in later series or films. The question is where they get explored.

Also, it occurs to me this show had a bit less marketing weight behind it than WandaVision did and I'm starting to understand why. They could not have been totally happy with the final product.

 

[Hellraiser]

13 hours ago, Daniel Bryan said:

  Reveal hidden contents

So Steve and Natasha waltzed back in to the States after openly committing treason, but Sharon couldn't after secretly helping them out? And then for five years she never thought to ask them for help? And now she somehow thinks Falcon can get her a pardon? The guy who just broke a war criminal out of prison for basically no reason; although tough to hold that against him when it seems like Zemo could have walked out at any time, since all it took was a minor scuffle which I guess has never happened in this maximum security prison before, and he... phased through the glass in his cell?

That's before you even get into why Sam was pretending to be somebody completely irrelevant to the plan - because all black guys look the same I guess - except the barman clearly suspected something, or why else would he be staring him down until he drank that shot, which I guess proved he was the real guy even though he has a different face, but good thing Sam did get in so he could blow their cover after the dealer forced him to answer his phone on speaker because... the real Smiling Tiger (who, again, she didn't know) would never receive a phone call?

The show wasn't great before, but this episode turned a corner into aggressively stupid. 

Regarding Sharon Carter

Spoiler

In Endgame it is revealed that she was a victim of the Blip. So in the 5 years between Infinity War and Endgame Cap couldn't have helped her. And before that they were both wanted fugitives. 

[Daniel Bryan]

27 minutes ago, Hellraiser said:

Regarding Sharon Carter

  Hide contents

In Endgame it is revealed that she was a victim of the Blip. So in the 5 years between Infinity War and Endgame Cap couldn't have helped her. And before that they were both wanted fugitives. 

Spoiler

I assumed from this that they just thought she was snapped because she was in hiding. Otherwise it sort of implies that she's built this life as a high-end black market art dealer with deep ties in the international criminal underworld in the six months since she got back. 

 

[gunnar hendershow]

So one good thing came out of this episode

Spoiler