The Marvel Cinematic Universe TV Thread

[GoGo Yubari]

re: Zemo

Spoiler

I think two things are simultaneously true, for me; this is a very weird, jarring turn for that character compared to what we saw in Civil War and also this take on Zemo is a way more sustainable idea for that character if they want to take Zemo to the places Zemo goes in the comics, and I very much want to get to those places. Kind of feel like I should be annoyed with it because Civil War Zemo is one of my favorite MCU villains and I think was deeply underrated but I can't be mad at Daniel Bruhl getting to have fun.

 

[Skummy]

Spoiler

I'm just finding this series so, so dull. The last episode was the first one that really felt like anything was actually happening, but also everything that was happening was extremely stupid. 

I don't buy the "buddy cop" dynamic between the title characters, and it feels completely unearned. It lends itself to the laziest of Whedon-Marvel "banter", wherein after a serious fight scene characters will momentarily default to being squabbling children so they can say something like "you're sitting in my seat" to end a scene with the cheapest of laughs. 

It feels like the exposition parts of a Marvel movie slowed down to a snail's pace, with no pay-off in sight. So, in essence, you're watching a Marvel movie with none of the stars. 

I'm sure now we're at the halfway point it will start to pick up, but even as someone who was quite critical of Wandavision - largely just as something not half as smart as it/people pretended it was - that was at the very least a show with fresh ideas, a great gimmick, and a hook to keep you coming back every week. I was never less than intrigued about what the next episode of Wandavision might bring.

This show just doesn't give me any reason to want to come back to it, and just feels like we're twiddling our thumbs with the C-team until someone actually important shows up. The only reason to keep watching is that Marvel FOMO, that maybe this one will give us some important information we need to remember for another movie in five years' time.

In a Zoom call last night, with people who are far bigger Marvel fans than me, only one of them was particularly enjoying it, and even then it was largely because he was second-guessing which story from which comic book they were building to, and what other actors he was anticipating showing up in episode 5, not that he was invested in the story they were actually telling. It's peak Marvel meta-narrative, where they've basically taken the "oh, it's that guy from that thing" experience of seeing a familiar face in a TV show and convinced audience that that's a substitute for narrative. 

 

[livid]

 

[tristy]

Gugu Mbatha-Raw is playing Judge Renslayer. In the comics, that's Kang's lover. Not to start the fan speculation early, but that's pretty interesting. But watch Marvel not even go that route.

There's also a split second in that trailer where it might be Sophia Di Martino with Tom Hiddleston, and again - fan speculation - but she might be Lady Loki.

[VerbalPuke]

So my kids did end up wanting to finish WandaVision, and that was a lot of fun. 

Spoiler

My oldest boy is such a sweet heart, the end made him cry. I felt it too. 

 

[Lint]

On 03/04/2021 at 07:28, Hellraiser said:

Regarding Sharon Carter

  Reveal hidden contents

In Endgame it is revealed that she was a victim of the Blip. So in the 5 years between Infinity War and Endgame Cap couldn't have helped her. And before that they were both wanted fugitives. 

Did it?  I don't remember that

[JasonM]

re: The discussions

Spoiler

 

I've been enjoying Winter Falcon. But I think the biggest issue (especially last episode) was that everything was flying by at such an insane pace that there was no time to rest and figure out what was going on.

In episode 3 alone the following points were touched on...

- Meeting Zemo for the first time since Civil War
- Zemo breaking out (and Bucky helping him for vague reasons)
- Zemo revealing he's not a soldier at all and actually been a rich baron all along.
- Going to a whole new locale never touched upon (Madripoor), which visually is something that is unlike anything on earth in the MCU.
- Apparently everyone knowing who the Winter Soldier is, but not knowing that the past 5+ years he's been unprogrammed, in the city where knowledge is power.
-- Also nobody knows who Falcon is, a famous Avenger, again, in the city where knowledge is power.
- Sharon showing up, revealing that after the blip she got rich off selling stolen art and living under the radar.
-- I want to add to the above thing that it kinda makes little sense why Sharon wasn't taken off the fugitive list when every other person involved was...
-- Also, whilst Sharon probably learned from Nick Fury, it seems like she's a different person entirely. Sharon didn't seem like someone that can just decide to become a hardened criminal...
- And a lot more things happening. Like revealing that there's more super soldiers, and that NuCap is weird and creepy.
- Oh, they also figured out that the bad guys were too sympathetic, so the leading lady decided to become a hardened terrorist now.

Basically. So much shit happened in a 50 minute episode that it's hard to come to terms with most of the things going on. And a lot of the plot points needed time for exposition, especially the Zemo stuff was quite jarring and needed a better/longer explanation than what was given.

Also the whole power broker/Madripoor stuff also needed a lot more explanation. There being power brokers, Zemo having so many connections that make your head spin, and all sorts of other reference that even flew over my head (and i'm very quick, so nothing goes over my head!).

Basically all that happened needed two if not three whole episodes to really be established, but it got flown through in one. And as a result most of Madripoor felt like side-tracking that is quickly forgotten about again because we're now back in the 'normal' world.

This series should probably have been a few episodes longer, because they're clearly showing that six just isn't enough to get every plot point in.

Especially since this series also tries to do a lot with institutional racism and white exceptionalism (Falcon being accosted by police for being heated at a white man, John Walker the perfect blonde/blue eyed 'symbol for America', etc.). But there's just not enough time to let anything sink in.

 

 

 

[Roster Depth Sicko No. 2]

I'd definitely agree that having seen the first three episodes, this series should definitely have been longer than the six episodes it got. Nothing has any time to breathe. Wandavision clocked in at about 6 hours total and the pacing felt way better, we're halfway through that less with FATWS and it feels like they've crammed in twice as much as the whole WandaVision series already.

[Hellraiser]

2 hours ago, Lint said:

Did it?  I don't remember that

Spoiler

IIRC it happened in the beginning of the movie when they catch Captain Marvel up on what happened on earth during Infinity War. They use the holographic display they have at Avengers HQ to show her that Nick Fury was among the 50% of earth's population that disappeared. During this scene a picture of Sharon Carter and her name show up on the display as well. It's very "blink and you miss it". 

Apparently in an early draft of Endgame, she and Captain America were living together post-snap. But she was ultimately written out of the movie. 

 

[MalaCloudy Black]

The overstuffing that seems to be a problem in Falcon & Winter Soldier makes me worry about Loki, which is similarly only 6 episodes.

[tristy]

That show is probably going to have like 18 different Loki variants, so yeah it'll be overstuffed like a motherfucker.

[Daniel Bryan]

3 hours ago, Hellraiser said:

  Hide contents

Apparently in an early draft of Endgame, she and Captain America were living together post-snap. But she was ultimately written out of the movie. 

 

That would have made his going back to get with Peggy hit a whole lot different... 

[Jimmy]

Yeah, struggling with Falcon & Winter Solider, the last ep was at least fun, but ultimately struggling to really invest in it, it's not really stirring any emotions. Daniel Bruhl having a good time is something I can get on board with though. 

[Gabriel]

Given that they wouldn't be able to pull the same twist as in the comics if they try to do Thunderbolts, I'd like to see them re-arrange some stuff to set it up.

Give us a Zemo: Born Better mini-series, where he ends up traveling through time or alternate realities to see the racist and horrible lineage that he comes from... helping to shape him as a better person and leading to him starting the Bolts as a road to redemption type deal.

Still though... at the end of the Thunderbolts series or first season, have him reveal that it's all a sham in order to take over the world.

But then keep going with the Zemo-wonkyness by having season two or a different series or movie explore how he legitimately believes that he's saving the world by doing so, and give the audience a reason to believe that he may be right.

Bruhl has been fantastic. He's making a great Helmut Zemo so far.

[livid]

 

[tristy]

Uh, holy fuck. The last 5 minutes are graphic (for the MCU anyway).

[DFF]

8 minutes ago, tristy said:

Uh, holy fuck. The last 5 minutes are graphic (for the MCU anyway).

Yeah, not one for kids to watch imo.

Does the show have a certificate actually? Would imagine its 12+ if so. 

[tristy]

TV14 in America.

[livid]

Yeah that was intense. 

Very curious to see where they go from here. 

[Azazel]

I think it was a much better episode than the previous ones and felt like they were actually on track instead of just kind of being a disjointed mess.  I do think they tried to sneak in too many snarky lines though that just felt a little off.