The Marvel Cinematic Universe TV Thread

[gunnar hendershow]

Spoiler

I echo people saying it was "good not great". This really seemed to serve as a prologue of sorts for the Captain America 4 movie that's been greenlit. A whole lot of moving things into the right places for that movie. Everyone, bar Sharon and John Walker, is where they were before the series began. Only now Sam has the Captain America name to go with everything else.

Sharon seems to be working under another villain, so it'll be interesting to see where that goes. Her entire 180 as a character is confusing but I think it's something they haven't backed themselves into a corner over and it's fine to explain later.

John Walker's goofiness at the end of the episode was so odd. It felt like he fully morphed into his anti-hero self during the climatic battle but instead they still presented him as guy who really loves dressing up as a hero. It was like they sent him back to where he was in episode 1.

 

[Lint]

6 hours ago, Bad News Jericode said:

I think my main gripe with the series is that a lot happened without anything really happening bar a lot of character development.

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Other than that we've just had a lot more story telling to seemingly circle back to the same point.

 

I think thats basically the point.  I have a feeling most of these shows are just going to be adding details, instead of normally happening off screen. 

Didn't watch WandaVision?  Well off screen Wanda went from flinging red balls of energy, to being able to fly, to almost tearing Thanos apart, so of course next movie she'll be powered up more.  You got the details from the series, but it doesn't matter if you didn't watch it. 

Didn't watch FatWS?  Well we already know Sam had the shield, it was implied he'd be the new Captain America, and costumes are usually tweaked between movies, so of course he has a new Captain America falcon suit.  Again, the series gives the details, but it won't matter if you didn't see it

[Roster Depth Sicko No. 2]

Okay having slept on it with more time to reflect, I might have been a bit harsh on it. The character development work the two series have done so far has been great to be fair, I just think they need a series to do something bolder to show the true advantages of doing it as a series rather than another film. Hopefully we'll get that with Loki, given that it should be our first proper taste of the multiverse elements. I think we've got What If after Loki which should let them do some fun stuff too.

Is it Hawkeye or Ms Marvel after What If? As much as Clint Barton became a favourite in the later Avengers movies I think I'd rather see them tackle a new character next rather than giving us another take on someone they've already established.

[tristy]

No confirmed release dates, but it’s looking like early fall for Hawkeye and then winter for Ms. Marvel. What If? will take up a considerable amount of time for the release schedule, unless they break the first season up. I believe it’s supposed to be more than 12 episodes (and supposedly has an actual storyline, as opposed to being just one-shot stories).

At least with Hawkeye you’ll kind of get your wish, since Hailee Steinfeld/Kate Bishop is basically the co-star of the series.

[Roster Depth Sicko No. 2]

I thought What If? was just 10 episodes? I know it had a second series confirmed.

[Chris2K]

Regarding where the series goes from here, and particularly commenting on @Bad News Jericode's reflection:

Spoiler

The Hollywood Reporter is stating that Captain America 4 is has been greenlit with Sam as the Captain America role with Chris Evans not likely to appear.

That could explain why everything went back to how it was to begin with, if people only watch the movies they'll have seen Steve giving Sam the shield, and the next movie involving Sam shows him with the shield. What happened in between has been dealt with by FATWS and isn't necessary viewing for just the movie watchers.

 

[tristy]

1 hour ago, Bad News Jericode said:

I thought What If? was just 10 episodes? I know it had a second series confirmed.

Yeah, I just looked it up, looks like Feige confirmed it’s 10 episodes. That’s still longer than any show so far, I doubt Loki surpasses it too. So, unless they do a two episode premiere, or two episodes a week, etc that’s 10 weeks (or 11 with the behind the scenes episode after the finale) until Hawkeye - probably longer, since it’s not an immediate turnaround for shows ending and then starting.

But yeah, being a huge Ms. Marvel fan, I can’t fucking wait for that show.

[Roster Depth Sicko No. 2]

Nah Loki is only getting 6, but there's apparently a second season of that confirmed.

[gunnar hendershow]

Yeah I thought there was an expectation Loki would be their multi-season-so-you-don't-cancel-D+ show. It makes some level of sense, with Loki going off on adventures through the multiverse that don't really have a bearing on the films beyond possible minor callbacks, etc. WandaVision and now FATWS were both much more ways to add some more detail for diehard fans but without really moving the plot of the movies too much that it's impossible for someone to keep up.

To their credit they seem to be working to avoid the pitfalls of the comics which require undivided attention across multiple titles. Basically making it so as long as you see every movie you get the "full story" with the TV shows being mostly extra.

Spoiler

Off the top of my head beyond Sharon's heel turn everything else that happened in the first two shows on D+ can reasonably be explained with a quick line of dialogue. Wanda is tapping even more info her potential, Falcon is Captain America now, Bucky has found closure, Val is assembling her own team of anti-heroes, and US Agent was a failed Captain America.

 

[livid]

I thought the show was good not great. The pacing was definitely off but if the rumors about story changes after covid hit are true it makes sense.

 

[Chris2K]

21 hours ago, Chris2K said:

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My only issue with Sharon being the Power Broker is that it takes a lot to make the jump for the character we have seen in Winter Solider and Civil War, who has always been a SHIELD loyalist and hero, to being someone in control of one of the biggest crime syndicates in the world in the space of five years. It also requires us to believe that she made no attempt to contact Steve, and Steve made no attempt to contact her between Civil War and Endgame, which seems unlikely.

Because it all took place off-screen it makes it that much harder to buy in to it. That, and the seeming red herring of the Power Broker being referred to as he/him throughout the series, the Disney+ shows sure love their red herrings.

That said I did enjoy the episode and the series, seeing Sam in the new suit was awesome and the touch of renaming the title card to "Captain America and the Winter Soldier" at the end was lovely. Hopefully there's a season 2 fairly soon, because I think the decisions made here have kept it all very enclosed within the Captain America banner with very little that can transfer into other properties. 

 

Spoiler

After some investigation I've found that Sharon was canonically one of the people dusted during the blip, so take out the part where she could have used the 5 years to become the Power Broker. That makes this whole thing even more confusing, and veers more into the likelihood of them going down this route without much of a plan.

The only way it could make sense is if she was the Power Broker the whole time, but it was fairly clear she was permanently living and working in the USA every time we've seen her.

 

[Gabriel]

Re: John Walker

Spoiler

I really liked their handling of him in the final episode. I keep seeing a lot of people being unhappy that he is goofy at the end, but it plays very true to people with PTSD and similar issues, and to his comic book counterpart.

He's going to do awful shit. He already has, and he's going to do more... but at his core, he wants to be the good guy. He's going to be trying to stay on the hero side of things, but he's going to snap and push the boundaries a lot. My favorite use of US Agent was always when he ended up being the villain because of the way he approaches things, and not because of his goals or some latent evil within him.

He's not a "bad guy". He's a broken man, playing dress-up in a world of gods and monsters, trying to do his absolute best, but not having the psychological skills required to deal with it or the things that have happened in his past.

I don't ever want them to present him like a straight-up villain. He should always be handled in the shades of grey territory, and a potential Thunderbolts show would be a great way to deal with that. Teaming with Zemo and other villains that he detests... ends justifying the means and all that shit... being manipulated by the government and struggling with his mental health, potentially his new power and addiction.

 

[Tigerstyle]

I think Walker is going to be a puppet right? He’s desperate for approval, a company man, he doesn’t do evil things, but the things he does are evil kind of thing. It’s not his intention, he thinks what he’s doing is good, but it’s not.

[Gabriel]

7 minutes ago, Tigerstyle said:

I think Walker is going to be a puppet right? He’s desperate for approval, a company man, he doesn’t do evil things, but the things he does are evil kind of thing. It’s not his intention, he thinks what he’s doing is good, but it’s not.

Spoiler

Basically, yeah. I can see him being told that he's going to be the field leader of the Thunderbolts as a way to convince him to work with "rehabilitating" criminals... but the direction of the group will probably be decided by the government, while Zemo schemes and is actually the one manipulating everything.

 

[Jimmy]

Yeah, I've gotta say, this show didn't do much for me. I was watching the last episode without any real sense of emotional investment because the show hadn't really earned it. I stand by it's a show with a lot of interesting ideas that stick the landing. I think I enjoyed it most in the middle where we at least had Daniel Bruhl having a good time. 

I just don't really feel like it had an identity, especially because Winter Soldier is definitely one of my favourite Marvel films because it functions as a really good spy and espionage movie, so I think the lack of style feels even more apparent. 

Super glad you guys got something out of it, and in terms of the decisions it made, I think they're interesting ones for the MCU, but I just couldn't get into it at all. 

[Lint]

I keep reading rumors that there was a pandemic related storyline to the show that got cut.  I generally don't like these sort of theories, but it DOES makes sense..

The evidence of the vaccine plot: Episode 1 is the Flag Smashers stealing money. Episode 2 is the Flag Smashers stealing vaccines. Episode 3 has Lemar warning Walker that people see the Flag Smashers as heroes and Nagel says the GRC hoarded vaccines while people died in camps of disease, while Mama Donya becomes the latest victim of that outbreak.

And then Karli blows up the GRC and the vaccines are never mentioned again.

But we’re left with storyline artifact. Bucky and Sam think Karli isn’t a killer, Karli doesn’t care that Walker and Sharon murdered her friends, and Bucky and Sam don’t care that Walker tried to murder both of them.

Veronica Falcón.   While she doesn't seem like a big deal, she has quite the extensive career in, I'm assuming, Spanish language films, even winning some awards. What does she do?  She is suddenly reduced to a quick scene of her, playing dead.  She played Madani, in a scene she just laid there and did nothing

It really does seem like, at some point, they went "Oh shit we can't do this plot line" and quickly retooled the show, and that is why some stuff feels "off" and doesn't make sense

[tristy]

They're denying that the storyline was pandemic related, but the showrunner did confirm that a storyline was cut and it could get a comic tie-in pretty soon to flesh out the story.

[punky]

Sharon Carter issues/theory

Spoiler

Theory going around that could explain the Sharon Carter issues - it's a Skrull and not Sharon. Would definitely make sense with how much power she has seemingly acquired since The Blip and especially with the end credits scene where she is calling someone about having access to classified technology and such.

This show was definitely a weird one for me. The first three episodes I really wasn't that into it, there were moments but the reconning of parts of Zemo's character was off and the Sam/Bucky dynamic missed more than hit. By the end though, I was on board and really enjoyed how it played out. Looking forward to more stuff. 

Edited April 29, 2021 by punky

[Lint]

My take on the whole Sharon Carter thing
 

Spoiler

 

They tell us she got Blipped, but how do we know for sure?  She seemed to be pretty high ranking as far as SHIELD agents go, probably only behind Fury and Hill (I'd list Coulson, but we all know AoS doesn't count).  I might be remembering it wrong, but the only confirmation we got was that screen in the Avengers HQ that listed her as MIA.

Is it really outside the realm of possibility that she took "Half of all life on Earth getting dusted" as a chance to disappear and re-make herself as the Power Broker in the 5 years it happened?

 

 

[St. Dubb]

Adding on to this.

Spoiler

The images also showed Scott Lang as blipped during that same scene, when he was just missing because he was in the Quantum Realm. If Sharon had gone off grid in Madrapoor, she was for all intensive purposes missing and they would just assume she was blipped.

 

7 hours ago, Lint said:

My take on the whole Sharon Carter thing
 

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They tell us she got Blipped, but how do we know for sure?  She seemed to be pretty high ranking as far as SHIELD agents go, probably only behind Fury and Hill (I'd list Coulson, but we all know AoS doesn't count).  I might be remembering it wrong, but the only confirmation we got was that screen in the Avengers HQ that listed her as MIA.

Is it really outside the realm of possibility that she took "Half of all life on Earth getting dusted" as a chance to disappear and re-make herself as the Power Broker in the 5 years it happened?