The Marvel Cinematic Universe TV Thread

[Roster Depth Sicko No. 2]

No idea how you got that out of it.

[MalaCloudy Black]

I think the entire point of the show is to show us how Sam gets the shield and not Bucky, despite Bucky being the "obvious" choice..

[Tigerstyle]

Don’t know how you didn’t all see it. Weird.

[tristy]

It could be argued that Bucky also fits the "not a perfect soldier, but a good man" line that Erskine said to Steve in the First Avenger. I mean, obviously Sam fits that better and doesn't have the baggage that Bucky does, but all of the bad things Bucky has done in his life was really only because of HYDRA and mind control.

But yeah, its fairly obvious where Disney is going to go with the mantle of Captain America, especially since (spoilers for Episode 5)...

Spoiler

Torres got the Falcon wings

 

[JasonM]

So I think the story they're trying to write is more that Bucky (although to a lesser degree than Walker) is trying too hard to be Steve Rogers. Everything gets equated in terms of "What would Steve Rogers have thought of this", and ties the whole being of Captain America/Cap's Shield to trying to be a perfect replica of Steve's beliefs and way of dealing with things.

Sam Wilson is the only person presented as trying to be Sam Wilson, to the point where he gives up the shield because rather than trying to live up to an impossible ideal, he's not even going to try and is afraid of becoming something else than who he is. (After all, he's the Falcon, a bonafide Avenger in his own right).

John Walker on the other hand is obsessed with being Steve Rogers, but has no clue what that actually is. He's been fed the MIC's presentation of what it wants the Captain to be. (The perfect soldier)

Bucky is obsessed with atoning towards Rogers, even if he doesn't have to in his eyes. He spent 60+ years being a brainwashed puppet, And never had the chance to properly catch up with Steve when he came back. (From being hunted by the law to being exiled in Wakanda). He sees holding the shield as being closer to Steve, and that's what Bucky wants to cling to and can't see anyone but himself in that place. Partly because he knows the real Steve Rogers better than anyone else, before all the serums and idolatry, and has the best idea of how Rogers ticks...

But Bucky's mentally shaky, and again, the role is not about being Steve Rogers. If it had been, they probably could've kept Steve Rogers clones on ice the moment he got pulled from the ice.

(one thing that was touched on in the comics regarding the storyline closest to this, it's Steve Rogers admitting that he's a man with 100 year old morals and ideals, and that he's out of touch with how the modern world works. And thus his own judgement is biased because of it.)

TL;DR - Sam got the shield because Steve believes he'll make the right decisions, not 'thinks or tries to act exactly like cap does'.

[livid]

Cast is shaping up pretty nicely.

[Jimmy]

14 hours ago, livid said:

Cast is shaping up pretty nicely.

I totally missed they'd got Kingsley Ben-Adir. That's an incredible cast. 

[tristy]

I think a lot of people were still of the mindset that Secret Invasion was just going to be the "Nick Fury & the Skrulls" show, when in reality it's probably going to be closer to an event movie (even though it's a series) like Civil War.

[Benji]

I hope they do a better job with Secret Invasion than the comics. I was so stoked for that event and it wound up being a bit of a whimper.

[Lint]

 

[tristy]

Spoiler

I''m perfectly fine with Sharon Carter being the Power Broker - at least it gives her some character other than "blonde SHIELD agent related to Peggy". Now she's actually a D-list villain. I suspect a Season 2 is coming our way, which was always way more likely than a show like WandaVision getting another one (which it isn't).

Saw the new Cap and US Agent suits in toy leaks a few weeks back, and earlier tonight on Reddit in the case of Cap. I like them both.

I guess what I'm left wondering now is what happens with US Agent and Zemo. Walker isn't exactly played as a bad guy - anti-hero, I guess? I mean his actions are, but the entire episode he teamed up with Cap & Bucky, and then that final scene of his was played for laughs basically, with him being all excited and shit. Valentina is shades of grey right now I guess. Interesting that she knew Zemo had that transport blew up, too.

All in all, I liked this show/season. I don't really focus on the problems a lot of you guys had, because at the end of the day it's really just a comic book show and I don't need Oscar worthy writing or whatever. Just entertain me. And I was thoroughly entertained the entire 6ish hours.

[Hellraiser]

A question about the episode:

Spoiler

I know that the old guy in the car was Zemo's butler. Who was the black guy saying the slogan? Was he actually an undercover Flag Smasher or was he another one of Zemo's guys? And if he was one of Zemo's guys, what was the point of saying the slogan? To lull them into a sense of false security before they die?

 

[GoGo Yubari]

On 28/03/2021 at 12:57, GoGo Yubari said:

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they have me at a place where I can just be furious when they fuck it up.

 

Spoiler

More of a resigned shrug than anything, really. It was fine. There wasn't really any real tension for me because the Flag Smashers at the end of the day weren't interesting, I think there was a second there where they looked to be interesting but ultimately ended up being a pretty stock "extremists with a point but go too far" deal. Like Tristy alluded to, the tone with Walker was peculiar, too. I don't want to see people palling around with him, even in a "you're the worst" way. I recognize that he's an anti-hero in the comics basically but that didn't land for me.

Sharon as the Power Broker was the only way it could have gone without being either a weird left-field swerve or Zemo, which would have felt totally unsatisfying. I like it; I'm sure it'll grate on some comics folks but Sharon was a nothing character in the MCU (plus if enough people are mad at it they can always be like "oh, she was a Skrull all along!" since Secret Invasion is coming up).

re: @Hellraiser's question

Spoiler

I assumed that was just another person loyal to their cause, and the whole thing was a fake-out that you'd see them again before they all got unceremoniously wiped out.

 

[Chris2K]

Spoiler

My only issue with Sharon being the Power Broker is that it takes a lot to make the jump for the character we have seen in Winter Solider and Civil War, who has always been a SHIELD loyalist and hero, to being someone in control of one of the biggest crime syndicates in the world in the space of five years. It also requires us to believe that she made no attempt to contact Steve, and Steve made no attempt to contact her between Civil War and Endgame, which seems unlikely.

Because it all took place off-screen it makes it that much harder to buy in to it. That, and the seeming red herring of the Power Broker being referred to as he/him throughout the series, the Disney+ shows sure love their red herrings.

That said I did enjoy the episode and the series, seeing Sam in the new suit was awesome and the touch of renaming the title card to "Captain America and the Winter Soldier" at the end was lovely. Hopefully there's a season 2 fairly soon, because I think the decisions made here have kept it all very enclosed within the Captain America banner with very little that can transfer into other properties. 

 

[St. Dubb]

Felt like it was a "good not great" episode of a "Good no great" show, which is fine. It was a good origin story for Falcon as the new Captain America and I enjoyed getting more character from both him and Bucky.

As for some thoughts about the future

Spoiler

Continue to feel the vibe of Val recruiting for a new team with connections to both U.S. Agent and Zemo now.

The End Credits tease could certainly foreshadow a Season 2 but I could also see it be leading to Armor Wars since she walked about how the tech at her disposal now...presumably stuff like Starks' tech since that show probably is going to center around that tech being in the wrong hands.

 

[Maxx]

Only thing I didn't like

 

Spoiler

Walker moving back into being a dweeb at the end in his US Agent costume.  Felt like they just threw away his character development.  They told a great story of him cracking under the pressure of being Captain America and it really felt like that ending just moved sharply away from where his character had ended up.  Figured PTSD addled black ops Super Soldier was where he'd remain, not jump sharply back to gee golly gosh look at my new outfit oh boy!

 

[GoGo Yubari]

re: Walker

Spoiler

It felt like they wanted him choosing to try and save the bus to be this big redeeming moment but I didn't really care that he did that in the slightest.

[St. Dubb]

20 minutes ago, GoGo Yubari said:

re: Walker

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It felt like they wanted him choosing to try and save the bus to be this big redeeming moment but I didn't really care that he did that in the slightest.

 

Plus..

Spoiler

He failed at it anyway.

 

[Roster Depth Sicko No. 2]

I think my main gripe with the series is that a lot happened without anything really happening bar a lot of character development.

Spoiler

Sam Wilson already had the shield and was by all accounts assumed to be Captain America in the aftermath of Endgame, Bucky had already seemingly gotten the Winter Soldier out of his system, Zemo is back in prison again, we didn't know Sharon Carter was on the run still until they told us, the Flag Smashers are all gone having not existed before. The only real things of significance for the future are John Walker coming in as US Agent, a Sharon Carter heel turn (which to be fair, doesn't work without what the character's development in the series), and Sam getting a dope new suit. Other than that we've just had a lot more story telling to seemingly circle back to the same point.

 

[tristy]

Well now it makes sense as to why this show was a thing.

Spoiler

Captain America 4 has been greenlit according to Hollywood Reporter, and the showrunner is writing the script.