Formula One 2017

[Adam]

3 hours ago, Katsuya said:

Speaking of ridiculous grid penalties, Perez, Grosjean and Vandoorne have now all taken some too. The way it works out is that Perez - who qualified 11th - takes a five place grid penalty and starts 12th. And that Magnussen and Ericsson, who both got knocked out in Q1, start 9th and 10th.

This is the best example yet of why these daft penalties need to be changed.

This is a proper title battle, nothing better than two top drivers from rival teams duking it out for the championship, trading top spot. It's a shame Red Bull's engine hasn't allowed them to join the fray this season as I think Ricciardo demonstrated again today why he is just a top, top driver.

[Lineker]

McLaren-Renault expected to be confirmed probably tomorrow. 

[Lineker]

Quote

Porsche is seriously considering returning to Formula 1 as an engine supplier under the proposed 2021 regulations, says its finance chief.

Lutz Meschke, deputy chairman of Porsche's executive board and member of the board for finances and IT, met with Ross Brawn and other F1 chiefs at the Italian Grand Prix.

Porsche will end its LMP1 programme at the end of 2017, having decided it does not get sufficient return for investment equivalent to an F1 budget.

It has committed to entering Formula E with a works-backed team from the 2019-20 season, but it has also sent representatives to the series of recent meetings about the 2021 F1 engine regulations.

It has been encouraged by F1's moves towards cheaper and simpler technology.

"F1 could be one of the right places," Meschke told Autosport.

"As you know Formula E is very important for us now, and F1 is always a good topic to think about.

"And I think we are in quite good discussions regarding the new engine."

Although it has not been on the F1 grid since its disastrous relationship with the Footwork team in 1991, Porsche has retained a commercial involvement with the F1 organisation by paying for its Supercup one-make series to feature on the grand prix support programme.

Asked if the current plans for a twin-turbo V6 with reduced technology could attract Porsche to F1, Meschke said: "Absolutely. We have to cut costs in F1, and it's a good way to reach this target."

He added that "discussions are around being a supplier", so forming a works team was not on the agenda.

Among the potential partners are Williams, which enjoyed a technical relationship with Porsche before selling its Hybrid Power division, and Red Bull, which has extensive connections with Porsche's parent company the Volkswagen Group.

McLaren has a strong history with Porsche through the TAG turbo collaboration of 1983-87, but they are now competitors in the road car market.

F1's commercial chief Sean Bratches said the championship's new owner Liberty Media would be delighted to have Porsche on board in 2021.

"Ultimately we're trying to create a platform and environment where more engine manufacturers and brands and teams come into this sport and make it a compelling business proposition to do so," Bratches told Autosport.

"The inclusion of Porsche, which is a heritage racing brand in our sport, would be highly valued."

[JasonM]

Red Bull - Porsche anyone? If Porsche jumps in prepared and not half-baked like Honda did, they can actually push the Ferrari's and Mercedes'.

 

[Katsuya]

So, Sainz has apparently signed for Renault and will drive for them from Malaysia onwards. In turn, Renault will release Toro Rosso from their engine contract, and Toro Rosso will sign with Honda, who in turn will end their relationship with McLaren, who will then get the Renault engine.

Jesus. But probably means Gasly-Kvyat for next year in the Toro Rosso. Apparently Honda want Matsushita in the Toro Rosso, but probably as the practice driver.

[Lineker]

Kvyat is like a cat with nine lives.

[Adam]

I just read that too, not for certain that Sainz will move by Malaysia but wouldn't be a surprise given Palmer's poor form.

Matsushita also doesn't have enough points to earn a Superlicence unless he secured 3rd place in the F2 Championship, so he might not be able to take a race seat anyway. I'm slightly surprised Kvyat is looking likely to keep his seat after such a drastic downturn in his fortunes over the past year, but then maybe Sainz leaving leaves Toro Rosso with little choice.

Is a McLaren move from Honda to Renault going to make much of a difference? I mean, obviously their reliability will be much better and the performance improved, but Renault is still the #3 engine. So do we expect McLaren to move up to a level that makes this move truly worthwhile? Can't expect them to be challenging the Red Bull straight away, surely.

[Katsuya]

I think the other problem for Toro Rosso is, to my knowledge, there isn't another RB young driver who would be able to take Kvyat's spot if Sainz goes. They only have Gasly ready, so better to stick with Kvyat and hope for the best. I mean the guy definitely has talent, he's just too reckless still. Shame that they couldn't have this situation when the likes of Buemi and Alguesuari were around, mind...

[Lineker]

No Kubica in 2018 it seems then

[JasonM]

1 hour ago, Lineker said:

No Kubica in 2018 it seems then

Well, Williams F1 has been rumoured to be interested in Kubica too if Massa calls it quits a second time. So don't lose hope there.

[Lineker]

That reeks of people putting 2 + 2 together and getting 5...

[Lineker]

AMuS Confirming McLaren with Renault Power for 2018. Honda to Toro Rosso. Sainz at Renault for Malaysia GP

Summary:

Quote

McLaren:

• will have to pay for the Renault engines, do without Honda's financial aid, and pay Alonso's salary
• Mansour Ojjeh and Bahrain Mumtalakat will cover these additional costs for one year, giving Zak Brown and Eric Boullier time to lure sponsors with good results on track

Renault:

• receive Sainz as compensation for cancelling the Toro Rosso engine supply contract
• he will replace Palmer from Malaysia onwards
• Palmer will receive a multi-million payout for breach of contract

Toro Rosso:

• Gasly will replace Sainz starting in Malaysia
• Honda supply free engines and additional sponsorship
• Matsushita will not drive for TR in 2018 as Honda do not have a say over their driver pairing

Additional information:

Because the deadline to announce a change of engine supplier was May 9th, no engine supplier could have been forced to supply McLaren by ballot. The deadline was chosen to give manufactuers enough time to prepare for the supply for another team.

[JasonM]

I think Honda's the big loser in all of this. But at the same time, they should completely cut their losses with McLaren and focus fully on developing an engine for the Toro Rosso's specifications.

But also, not being able to put Nobu in the STR is surely gonna be a painful loss for Honda. Especially knowing that Daniil Kvyat will most probably be occupying that seat, and that boy has zero future in the sport.

Also, nice for Renault to get a 'serious' team as a supplier, but for McLaren this is merely just a bandaid because the Renault engine will hopefully put their 2018 close to on par with the Red Bull, but they still lack all the pace to be a serious contender, as is the issue Red Bull themselves are dealing with.

Of course, Renault's the big winner because they get a very talented driver to slot next to Hulkenberg and get him in the short term too. And Sainz is no doubt exciting to jump away from the junior team of Red Bull and spread his wings.

This also of course opens up a world of silliness if a Ricciardo or a Verstappen opts to leave after next year, because Sainz is no longer the designated replacement if that happens.

[Twist]

25 minutes ago, Jasonmufc said:

I think Honda's the big loser in all of this. But at the same time, they should completely cut their losses with McLaren and focus fully on developing an engine for the Toro Rosso's specifications.

But also, not being able to put Nobu in the STR is surely gonna be a painful loss for Honda. Especially knowing that Daniil Kvyat will most probably be occupying that seat, and that boy has zero future in the sport.

Also, nice for Renault to get a 'serious' team as a supplier, but for McLaren this is merely just a bandaid because the Renault engine will hopefully put their 2018 close to on par with the Red Bull, but they still lack all the pace to be a serious contender, as is the issue Red Bull themselves are dealing with.

Of course, Renault's the big winner because they get a very talented driver to slot next to Hulkenberg and get him in the short term too. And Sainz is no doubt exciting to jump away from the junior team of Red Bull and spread his wings.

This also of course opens up a world of silliness if a Ricciardo or a Verstappen opts to leave after next year, because Sainz is no longer the designated replacement if that happens.

He wouldn't have those wings if it weren't for Red Bull.

[Lineker]

Very clever. 

[Gazz]

I don't see what Toro Rosso get out of this, they lose their best driver and get more than likely uncompetitive engines for 2018 in return for presumably a bit more cash.

[hugobomb]

I'm assuming it has to be a LOT more cash in order to make this even vaguely worthwhile. 

 

From Red Bull's viewpoint, it means they don't have to spend whatever money Honda is giving TR themselves and allows them to pour that money into RB.

[JasonM]

Honda will supply free engines to Toro Rosso, the team Red Bull wants to sell on because they feel the new regulations have really thrown a spanner into their ideology of using a second team as a youth-feeder.

Free engine deal + Team that has infrastructure and staff = a very appealing deal for prospective owners who want to buy in without having to wait years to make it worthwhile (Haas is an outlier).

And if the Honda engine becomes legitimate in the following years, the team will become even more valuable for a potential sale.

So really, Red Bull is getting exactly what they want out of this deal, and that's making Toro Rosso an easier sale.

[The Lusophone]

I'm not overly familiar with how the rules have changed over the past few years, what's changed that's impacted Red Bull's model?

[Lineker]

1 hour ago, Gazz said:

I don't see what Toro Rosso get out of this, they lose their best driver and get more than likely uncompetitive engines for 2018 in return for presumably a bit more cash.

Allows them to fully evaluate Renault and Honda power before the regulations change again.