Your Mom Posted December 30, 2011 Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 I wouldnt say this fight is just for hardcore fans. I'm not sure I'm a hardcore fan. I mean I guess I know most of the fighters but the only shows we ever actually order on PPV are Brock fights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thrilla Posted December 30, 2011 Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 Who is everyone picking in the Diaz/Cerrone fight? I've gotta go for Diaz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your Mom Posted December 30, 2011 Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 I want to see Cowboy win but I think Diaz will win Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mr. potato head Posted December 30, 2011 Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 I could see it going either way really. They're pretty equal on paper. Hate Diaz though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRN Posted December 30, 2011 Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 My bias is going with Diaz. But Cerrone is probably going to wrestle-fuck the shit out of Diaz. Also, I am still hoping for a double KO in the Lesnar/Overeem fight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolleje Posted December 30, 2011 Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 Cerrone TKO's Diaz. Fitch decision Hendricks. Gustafsson chokes out Matyushenko. And Hettes submits Nam Phan... (allthough nobody actually cares... how is this main card anyway?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted December 30, 2011 Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 Nam Phan has a bit of a name from TUF and from his fights with Leonard Garcia. WAR CERRONE tonight, I want to see The Cowboy in a title fight in 2012, I like Diaz, but I can't see past Cerrone tonight personally, it will be close, but Cerrone has viscous stand up, which has now under Greg Jackson's camp become much more refined and he has improved remarkably from the guy we saw fighting Ben Henderson in the WEC, he doesn't just rush in, he thinks a bit more and his ground game is a lot smoother then it used to be, actually the fight I am most excited for. Also I keep going back and forth on the Overeem/Lesnar fight, Overeem's camp appears to have been a bit messy and with his mother being ill I can see that having affected his preparation and we could see Lesnar take advantage of this, if, Lesnar is healthy again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnar hendershow Posted December 30, 2011 Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 The whole fight comes down to whether Lesnar is willing to take punches or not. If he is I think he gets it to the ground and wins, if not Reem will win in the 2nd prertty handidly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazz Posted December 30, 2011 Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 Lesnar's been used as a punching bag by Carwin for five minutes before, I don't think he's worried about taking a shot or two when going for a takedown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnar hendershow Posted December 30, 2011 Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 But then Cain used him as a punching bag and Lesnar immedately just tried to run away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quom Posted December 30, 2011 Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 Yeah but he just stood there and Carwin gassed himself. I think Overeem has far too much experience as well as actual striking skill to make the same mistake. If Brock gets put into the same position he was against Carwin (and unless he's learnt something new or will actually fight to his strengths, I can't see how he won't) Overeem will pick his shots and slaughter him. Carwin came in with the mindset that he had fists of granite and if he hit Brock hard enough and enough times Brock would get knocked out. I think Overeem will be smarter and work Brock over with knees, elbows and fists if he gets him against the cage and will make sure his hits count. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cymbols Posted December 30, 2011 Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 I'm going for Overeem, Cerrone, Fitch, Gustafsson, Hettes, Pearson and Njokuani to win Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted December 30, 2011 Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 Overeem's striking in MMA is suspect. There I said it. He doesn't have the confidence he has in K-1, he can't hold the same stance and he is much more tentative as a result of the possibility of the grappling game. Overeem has been stopped by strikes before by the likes of Kharitonov, Shogun (twice) and Arona, and his cardio is suspect. The guy is undeniably skilled, but he has not faced any one on the level of Lesnar in MMA since Pride, and even then he was a talented guy in the upper echelons of Pride's 205 division but had a tendency to choke on the big fights. My predicition is Overeem will be tentative, not sit down on his punches and a Lesnar will bull rush him against the fence and get the takedown, Overeem will not be able to bully Lesnar like he did with Brett Rogers, and Lesnar will not cower away from the fight like Werduum did. Lesnar by submission ala Carwin is my bold prediction. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mr. potato head Posted December 30, 2011 Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 Well said Rich. This is Overeem's biggest test ever, but it's nearly impossible to pick a winner because there are so many question marks regarding Overeem's true skill level and Brock's recovery from illness. More frustrating is that no matter who wins, fans on both sides will use it to justify their beliefs (if Brock wins, some will say Overeem was always overrated and some will say he's really that good but Lesnar's just better. If Overeem wins, some will say he's really that good and some will say Brock's hurt and not the same fighter so the win proves nothing.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolleje Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 Well said Rich. This is Overeem's biggest test ever, but it's nearly impossible to pick a winner because there are so many question marks regarding Overeem's true skill level and Brock's recovery from illness. More frustrating is that no matter who wins, fans on both sides will use it to justify their beliefs (if Brock wins, some will say Overeem was always overrated and some will say he's really that good but Lesnar's just better. If Overeem wins, some will say he's really that good and some will say Brock's hurt and not the same fighter so the win proves nothing.) Well... I dunno. I don't share the frustration. It's pretty safe to say that no matter what happens both guys are at least top 10 heavyweights, so I don't think a loss should change someone's 'beliefs'. One of the two will be a title contender, the other goes back to the drawing board and will need to win some fights first. But as proven with Lesnar now, in the not-so-deep HW division... a title shot can come pretty quickly after a loss. Allthough with the addition of the Strikeforce heavyweights, it's allready a little harder. My top 5 before the fight is Dos Santos - Cain - Lesnar - Barnett - Overeem. The order of the last three needs to be cleared up (also add Mir & possibly Cormier to the mix)... starting with this fight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quom Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 I don't understand how you can use examples from four years or more ago to talk about why Overeem will lose when in Brock's last two fights he has shown that any decent strike has him doing a Kalib Starnes impersonation and once he's on his back has no idea what the fuck to do. Also Lesnar bull-rushed Carwin, got him against the fence and Carwin ended up on top of Brock (I'm not saying Overeem is as skilled a wrestler or has the credentials of Carwin, but it does show that Brock getting a double leg doesn't necessarily mean he's automatically got his opponent on their backs). MPH, if Brock wins I'll be honest. He's a guy with massive natural gifts which makes him a really dangerous fighter to anyone in the division but when those skills fail he has shown he isn't capable of recovering. He doesn't think like a fighter and freezes when what he wants to do isn't working. I just watched the Carwin fight and Carwin is gassed quite early, Brock doesn't move his hips and Carwin could have easily taken the mount if he wanted to. At one point Carwin stands up and Brock lets him walk around his body to get into north/south which he then moves into side control from. If Overeem wins I'll say what I've been saying for ages. If Brock wants to be a great MMA fighter he will need to join a gym or create one with more skilled guys than he currently has. He's still incredibly raw. It's insane that any fighter of Brock's experience can be mentioned in the same breath as 'top five fighter in their division' so I'm not knocking him, nor do I think he's shit. But I do think he has some obvious holes in his game (lack of awareness when the tide of the fight changes or you get hit, lack of skill on his back - even how to quickly move into guard or attempt to get back up quickly). So I don't think Overeem winning does a massive deal to his reputation. He gets the rub from casuals as a guy who beat Brock. Brock remains protected due to his illness/lay off. If Brock wins I think it shows that his natural gifts can cause a headache to any fighter in the world on any given day. The only way I see either guy getting more from it than that is if it's a total war or Brock picks Overeem apart and shows he has gained a ton more composure than he's previously shown. I'm probably coming off as quite negative and I don't mean to be. I'm actually really excited for the fight and genuinely like both guys. I just think it's a really bad time to have them fight one another as it's not obvious that getting a win will boost either guy massively like the Dos Santos/Velasquez fight did on paper. Like I said there's a chance they tear the building down and both come out looking great. But I don't think there is necessarily an obvious pay-off. My top 5 would be: Dos Santos, Overeem, Valesquez, Barnett, Lesnar. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 I am absolutely loathed to call Overeem a top 5 guy when the only man of note he has fought in the last 4 years is Werdum. Today will show us where Overeem sits. I can name 4 guys in the UFC I think of more highly than Overeem and he is facing one of those today. I see the reason for the fight but personally I would have liked to see Overeem face somebody of the ilk of a Kongo, it would show you where Overeem stands as Kongo is one of those guys that really straddles the upper/middle level of fighters in the 265 division in the UFC. I used the old examples to show that the guy has lost and choked in big fights before, Overeem may technically be better, but the mental side is maybe something he has not developed, but he has lost when the pressure has been on before and even recently his lacklustre performance against Werdum, alongside the Octagon jitters that have affected even some of the best in the business, I can not back Overeem this time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxx Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 I don't understand how you can use examples from four years or more ago to talk about why Overeem will lose when in Brock's last two fights he has shown that any decent strike has him doing a Kalib Starnes impersonation and once he's on his back has no idea what the fuck to do. Also Lesnar bull-rushed Carwin, got him against the fence and Carwin ended up on top of Brock (I'm not saying Overeem is as skilled a wrestler or has the credentials of Carwin, but it does show that Brock getting a double leg doesn't necessarily mean he's automatically got his opponent on their backs). MPH, if Brock wins I'll be honest. He's a guy with massive natural gifts which makes him a really dangerous fighter to anyone in the division but when those skills fail he has shown he isn't capable of recovering. He doesn't think like a fighter and freezes when what he wants to do isn't working. I just watched the Carwin fight and Carwin is gassed quite early, Brock doesn't move his hips and Carwin could have easily taken the mount if he wanted to. At one point Carwin stands up and Brock lets him walk around his body to get into north/south which he then moves into side control from. If Overeem wins I'll say what I've been saying for ages. If Brock wants to be a great MMA fighter he will need to join a gym or create one with more skilled guys than he currently has. He's still incredibly raw. It's insane that any fighter of Brock's experience can be mentioned in the same breath as 'top five fighter in their division' so I'm not knocking him, nor do I think he's shit. But I do think he has some obvious holes in his game (lack of awareness when the tide of the fight changes or you get hit, lack of skill on his back - even how to quickly move into guard or attempt to get back up quickly). So I don't think Overeem winning does a massive deal to his reputation. He gets the rub from casuals as a guy who beat Brock. Brock remains protected due to his illness/lay off. If Brock wins I think it shows that his natural gifts can cause a headache to any fighter in the world on any given day. The only way I see either guy getting more from it than that is if it's a total war or Brock picks Overeem apart and shows he has gained a ton more composure than he's previously shown. I'm probably coming off as quite negative and I don't mean to be. I'm actually really excited for the fight and genuinely like both guys. I just think it's a really bad time to have them fight one another as it's not obvious that getting a win will boost either guy massively like the Dos Santos/Velasquez fight did on paper. Like I said there's a chance they tear the building down and both come out looking great. But I don't think there is necessarily an obvious pay-off. My top 5 would be: Dos Santos, Overeem, Valesquez, Barnett, Lesnar. Just wondering if there's a fighter at another weight class that you'd say is comparable to Lesnar's current skill level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 Chael Sonnen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your Mom Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 We are supposed to be watching this on Xbox tonight. I think we are going to get fucked over Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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