The England thread

[Guest Downloading_Man]

(The Real Deal @ 18th Nov 2004, 12:05 am)

Yeah I respect your opinion, and of course racist remarks are completly wrong and bring this sport into jepordy.

But wasn't there something in the newspaper a few months back about England fans booing to other teams national anthems?

[Malenko]

I didn't see the game but if that really happened don't worry.. Spain will be punished, either being fined or getting a suspension that won't allow them to play in Spain in their home games for an undecided amount of time.

As i said, i didn't watch the game, as i have no way to do it, so i don't know the intensity of the spanish fans acts.

But, PLEASE, stop acting like victims, English fans are as bad as any other. Unless you have allready forgotten about what happened in Euro2004. I'm not judging the whole bunch for the actions of a few. I know most english supporters aren't like that, but a few are, just like a few of other countries are too. I hate racism as much as you do, damn, i get annoyed even in little "funny" (to them) racist remarks, I have huge discussions out of it that end up with people telling me to lighten up. Yes.. i hate it as much as you do, but just don't say it like english people are some sort of saints cause they aren't. There are (unfortunately) racist people everywhere, not just Spain.

As for the diving... i have to agree latin players dive all the time (not all but most of them), so without watching the game, i will believe in the monkey molester's words until proven wrong, which i believe i won't be. The huge amount of dives in Portugal, Spain, Argentinian and Brazilian players mostly comes from the fact that their midfielders and forwards are usually very skilled players, with very limited physical condition. They started using this technique to avoid some defenders who couldn't play so just tackled and kicked legs all the time (this back in the 70's and early 80's). FIFA then established a rule to be applied since the 90's, which resulted in bookins on every hard tackle, and sent offs on tackles from behind (most referees aren't that harsh although the rules clearly state they should do so).

Unfortunately, those skilled players had found a way to win free kicks near the penalty area, or even penalties (although referees are usually more suspicious about these ones), and continued doing so. Most of those dives are actually fouls, but its understandable that after seeing a player throw himself to the grass 3 times in a row, the fans get furious and start yelling at him for everytime he falls, even if he really gets fouled!

A solution to that, IMO, would be to have a 5th referee outside the field with access to a tv to warn the referee about possible mistakes that really would influence the result of the game (this was allready suggested to the FIFA but wasn't approved), but who cares for what i think?

btw, what was the final result?

[Guest Downloading_Man]

As for the diving... i have to agree latin players dive all the time (not all but most of them), so without watching the game, i will believe in the monkey molester's words until proven wrong, which i believe i won't be. The huge amount of dives in Portugal, Spain, Argentinian and Brazilian players mostly comes from the fact that their midfielders and forwards are usually very skilled players, with very limited physical condition. They started using this technique to avoid some defenders who couldn't play so just tackled and kicked legs all the time (this back in the 70's and early 80's). FIFA then established a rule to be applied since the 90's, which resulted in bookins on every hard tackle, and sent offs on tackles from behind (most referees aren't that harsh although the rules clearly state they should do so).

Unfortunately, those skilled players had found a way to win free kicks near the penalty area, or even penalties (although referees are usually more suspicious about these ones), and continued doing so. Most of those dives are actually fouls, but its understandable that after seeing a player throw himself to the grass 3 times in a row, the fans get furious and start yelling at him for everytime he falls, even if he really gets fouled!

A solution to that, IMO, would be to have a 5th referee outside the field with access to a tv to warn the referee about possible mistakes that really would influence the result of the game (this was allready suggested to the FIFA but wasn't approved), but who cares for what i think?

btw, what was the final result?

[Malenko]

Diving in the modern game can actually be traced back to 1958. Pele burst on to the international scene and was a revelation. 4 years later he was even more skilled, but defenders simply kicked lumps out of him. In 1966, right here in England (Waits for Foley-style pop...but it doesn't arrive), Pele was pummeled by defenders, to the point of injury. He vowed never to play in the world cup again (he did though).

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[Farmer Reil]

I watched it with some Spanish guys in a pub near here, and found myself appologising to them

Not only could we not pass. Or tackle. (I dunno if we could shoot; we never got the chance to find out), but Rooney and Cole are a fucking disgrace.

Ok, yeah, so people are chanting racist shit at you. So that means that you get to kick some random player for no reason? Rooney has NO excuse, other than the fact that he's a complete twat, and acts more like a schoolyard bully than a professional footballer.

The Spaniards outplayed us completely, and Reyes and Fernando Torres only dived SIX times between them. When Torres and Reyes only need to dive six times against you, you know you're shit

Xavi, as usual, was great. Our midfield was awful (but that's Sven's fault for putting Nicky Butt in the middle of it.)

It wasn't a penalty, but that didn't matter really since Robbo saved it.

Overall, I was pretty disgusted with the whole thing. Not because we played badly, but because we played more like martial artists than footballers.

[IAceI]

I think Alex Feguson has some influence on Wayne Rooney's bad temprament. I never remember him being like this for Everton so i think that Ferguson has done something with him.

Ferguson should run the England team anyways, he tells them what to do pretty much and who he wants Sven to play and not to play and how long they have to play for. I understand that is well within a football managers right but Sven listens to Alex and when Real Madrid only want Beckham playing 45 minutes and he plays about 70 and comes off with a rib injury, Sven isn't doing his job.

Really, i think it's an absolute disgrace at how much in put other managers get into the England team and its running. They should just concentrate on managing their club and i understand they want their players fit but if i had the choice of playing 90 minutes for my country or playing against a team like Blackburn, i'd pick my nation. (Perhaps not with Blackburn as i'd like to break Jay Bothroyd's legs.)

Finally, racism is completely pathetic and it only seems to be in international matches and i am not surprised to see it happen to a country like ourselves, what with an increasing amount of black players (i don't mind however) and how England fans can boo other people's anthems but not expect to get any insults back because we are England, yargh~. We don't, infact no one does, deserve racist chants but England aren't exactly the clean on the insulting front.

And just to conclude it, A ) We were shite and B ) England are known for racist chants, and although i am disappointed in my own team doing it but many years, perhaps decades ago, Sunderland aimed "You're just a town full of Paki's" chants at Leicester.

[therockbox]

But, PLEASE, stop acting like victims, English fans are as bad as any other. Unless you have allready forgotten about what happened in Euro2004.

Edited November 18, 2004 by The Rock Box

[Summers]

But, PLEASE, stop acting like victims, English fans are as bad as any other. Unless you have allready forgotten about what happened in Euro2004.

The England team weren't victims? The Spanish fans were fucking disgraceful. Spain should be punished, fined and given a final warning. Or, have to play behind closed soors. Rooney was a twat, completely. I can understand how Cole reacted, I don't blame him for his actions, which wasn't that bad. But, Rooney really disgusted me, no need for him to act like that. The monkey noises really are pathetic, completely terrible.

[britneyspearsisgod]

But, PLEASE, stop acting like victims, English fans are as bad as any other. Unless you have allready forgotten about what happened in Euro2004.

[RawIsWar]

But, PLEASE, stop acting like victims, English fans are as bad as any other. Unless you have allready forgotten about what happened in Euro2004.

[TMM]

Apparently the English did something to contribute to the racist atmosphere according to a newspaper in Spain. Don't know what one, but there's a thing on the BBC website that covers the Spanish press for this morning:

Elsewhere, the Spanish media criticises its English counterparts for stoking up the racism issue.

"Were there racist chants against some players? This hasn't happened in the Spanish league and Spain for many years," said Spanish Federation press officer Fernando Garrido.

"So you (English reporters) should ask yourselves what you have done to contribute to all this."

And Spanish daily ABC accuses English reporters of launching a witch-hunt against Aragones.

"Perhaps it was because their team had played so poorly and they wanted to divert attention towards this muddled issue," the paper says.

I'm not even gonna comment.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/i...als/4021719.stm

This is where I got it, has some other stuff to.

Edited November 18, 2004 by The_Monkey_Molester

[Guest Pirate Chasin' Booty]

Beckham said in an interview he was surprised as this type of thing never happens in spanish league football.

But on Radio1 this morning a British, Spanish football reporter was asked if he agreed with Beckham, apparently not, he said how this type of thing was common place, and happened pretty much every game a black player was involved, apparently its seen as small news.

The fact that Luis Aragones was allowed to continue on as National Coach suggests just how seriously this behaviour is taken by the FA.

[FLiam]

Bottom line on this whole issue is that Spains fans were an absolute disgrace. Rooneys were bad as well I know.

As for Cole, how can you blame him for lashing out when you have that many people shouting monkey taunts at you, I would flip out if I heard them doing it. You cannot have a go at him for that. Also, the Spanish media are idiots, and like Monkey said, I am not going to comment on that, it is too damn ridiculous for words.

[Summers]

Apparently the English did something to contribute to the racist atmosphere according to a newspaper in Spain. Don't know what one, but there's a thing on the BBC website that covers the Spanish press for this morning:

Elsewhere, the Spanish media criticises its English counterparts for stoking up the racism issue.

"Were there racist chants against some players? This hasn't happened in the Spanish league and Spain for many years," said Spanish Federation press officer Fernando Garrido.

"So you (English reporters) should ask yourselves what you have done to contribute to all this."

And Spanish daily ABC accuses English reporters of launching a witch-hunt against Aragones.

"Perhaps it was because their team had played so poorly and they wanted to divert attention towards this muddled issue," the paper says.

I'm not even gonna comment.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/i...als/4021719.stm

This is where I got it, has some other stuff to.

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Now that's fucking pathetic. Everyone has admitted we played bad, very bad. But, of course we're more annoyed with the pathetic behaviour of the spanish fans. How they can try and blame the English, I do not know.

[Guest The Real Deal]

I couldn't hear much last night, but I seen it on TV and im fucking disgraced.

I respected Spain, but their fans were fucking arrogant and rude. That was disgraceful, And Ian Wright completly went bonkers when someone behind him said something about Wright-Philips last year I think it was. He had to be retained by security. God know's what he'll do about this one.

And Wright-Philips ignored all of it and just simply played football.

Fair play to him!

[Asuka's Gonna Kill You]

I'm sure the paper was saying bad stuff about Beckham again today, which pisses me off so much. No one ever seems to appreciate what he does for the English team and they always seem to feel as if he's let the team down. Didn't manage to even catch the game but I've been hearing about it all over the place. I did see Cole going a little heavy in the match at one point though.

On a side note, Italy won 1-0

[hugobomb]

What is the punishment for this? Is there one?

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Depends, if it's England in the wrong then it's closed doors on friendly games and Qualifiers and threats of being thrown out of tournaments.

But if it's not England then a light slap on the wrist should just about do it

[Timmoru Suzuki]

What is the punishment for this? Is there one?

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Depends, if it's England in the wrong then it's closed doors on friendly games and Qualifiers and threats of being thrown out of tournaments.

But if it's not England then a light slap on the wrist should just about do it

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Edited November 19, 2004 by timmayy

[Farmer Reil]

I'm sure the paper was saying bad stuff about Beckham again today, which pisses me off so much. No one ever seems to appreciate what he does for the English team and they always seem to feel as if he's let the team down.

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Edited November 19, 2004 by TheReilDeal

[Malenko]

But, PLEASE, stop acting like victims, English fans are as bad as any other. Unless you have allready forgotten about what happened in Euro2004.

You seem very anti-English. We are no where near perfect, but the cases of racism in English football are very slim compared to this. This was just a disgrace. You get racists in England, but you get racists everywhere. It's just tonight, we saw it on a large scale. So why can't we feel upset? I read The Times today, and they talked about the racism, but they made a bigger claim about the shambolic display we put on. Many English people are not trying to make themselves victims. I certainly am not. But I see racism like that, and I will demand action. Quite frankly, if FIFA or UEFA do nothing, it'll will be nothing short of immense stupidity.

We are not wallowing in a "victim status", as a great admirer of Liverpool once said . We just expect action. Nothing wrong with that.

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