The Star Wars Thread

[CobraKaiEnTai]

My problems with the Last Jedi was that it seemed to troll the audience too much with legitimate questions people had after The Force Awakens

What will Luke do now that he has his original lightsaber back? He'll just toss it away because lol.

Who are Rey's parents? Oh, they're nobodies.

What is Snoke's backstory? No, he doesn't have one.....and now he's dead.

Here's Luke to save the day at the last minute, except he's just a projection and then he just dies anyway.

Plus it seemed to force jokes in there too often, just because it works with Marvel movies doesn't mean we have to have everybody be snarky in Star Wars too. The original trilogy had some comedic moments too, but it felt more natural and incidental.

Finn's going to sacrifice himself to stop that cannon, no just kidding Rose will save him at the last second because "love"

And as Mark Hamill has said, Luke was just too much of a departure from who he was in the original trilogy.

It was nice that they finally had Leia use the force, but that flying through space bit was pretty cheesy.

I get Han Solo's death in TFA, Harrison Ford has wanted that for years. But I didn't think they needed to kill of Luke Skywalker too. I can understand why they didn't do it because they didn't want art imitating life with Carrie Fisher, but if anybody would've made sense to die in this one, it would've been Leia. Now they have to use unused footage to bring her back in Episode IX.

They spent too much time on the casino planet and not enough time on parts that would've added to the movie more.

I can understand pushing the future, but it felt like they took the "let the past die, kill it if you have to" a little too literally. There was a way to honor the characters from the past and balance it with the present, but it felt they were pushed to the side too much.

And ultimately, things felt pretty wrapped up at the end. What are we supposed to anticipate in Episode IX? Rey and Kylo fighting again? Kylo and Hux turning on each other? Lando having a bit part? Cameos from Obi Wan, Anakin, Qui Gon maybe? Phasma dying again? That kid at the end being all grown up and ready to be the new Anakin?

[LittleDaniel]

yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawn

[Your Mom]

There were reasons for all that stuff. Just because you didn't like them doesn't mean they were trolling or whatever

[LittleDaniel]

like, okay, 'legitmate questions' aka the fans are angry that they didn't get exactly what they wanted.

Yeah, Luke changed in the past thirty years.  He became a hermit.  Its kinda what happens to Jedi Masters, it seems.

Rey's last name being named 'Kenobi' or whatever would have added absolutely nothing to our understanding of the character, the plot, and is just boring 'hey look everyone you like is here!' bullshit that the prequels was full of.

Snoke's backstory? Its not like the Emperor had a backstory in the original trilogy. And yeah, he's dead now, because him being the big bad for the whole trilogy just like Palpatine was in the original would be a boring retread.

Luke died.  Yup.  Its not like a character has ever shown up as a force ghost or anything, so I guess there's no chance he could ever appear again.

Yeah, probably more jokes than the original.  Kay.

Yeah, I liked the Rose subplot but I didn't particularly care for the conclusion to it.

Maybe Hamill didn't like the direction the character went.  I think it was brilliant.

The space bit was alright, I'm glad we got to see her use the force.

I want to kill off literally every character from the OT. Fuck them! New trilogy time! (plus, again, force ghosts exist)

I really hope that I'm right and the real big bad of the entire series is the war profiteers introduced on the casino planet, otherwise yeah I would've just had the B-plot take place on the First Order ship instead of splitting it up into two locations.

Its almost like 'don't let the past die, you need to learn from it' is the theme of the movie or something.

and yeah, 'what's next' is literally the most unimaginative question ever.  like, okay, you have this neo-nazi little shit who stumbled his way into control of the neo-Empire, killed both his father figures, probably will redeem himself but how will he?  what will happen with the first order, which is pretty much decimated at this point?

and yeah, the kid at the end is a storytelling device come onnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn its an epilogue!

[Maxx]

This is why I find it hilarious so many of them were pissed off when Lord and Miller were fired.  They would have been screeching with rage if Solo has ended up being as heavily improvised and comedy-centric as it was reported to be heading under them.

[Josh]

I wish it had turned out like that.

[CobraKaiEnTai]

Ok, don't know what you're expecting me to say. I had some criticisms I wish would've been addressed in the movie, maybe it isn't for me. Maybe I was expecting too much. I'm not like some people who will ridiculously deride it for appeasing all the SJW or crap like that. I didn't hate it, I can still watch it and get some enjoyment out of it, its not like the prequels which were just dull and full of terrible dialog.  Its not just that Luke died, its just the way he died didn't do much for me, thought his character deserved a more fitting finale than just disappearing into thin air like Yoda did in ROTJ. I know he can come back as a force ghost in the next one, but just expected a little more to his character arc than what we got. It just didn't tick all the boxes for me is all and some things I wish they had done a little differently, but its whatever.

[SeanDMan]

6 hours ago, BartholomewHigginsJones said:

What will Luke do now that he has his original lightsaber back? He'll just toss it away because lol.

5 hours ago, LittleDaniel said:

Yeah, Luke changed in the past thirty years.  He became a hermit.  Its kinda what happens to Jedi Masters, it seems.

I don't mind Luke being a hermit. I do think him throwing the lightsaber away was stupid. There's nothing wrong with subverting expectations but that moment was framed and shot as comedy. It shouldn't have been, at all. It should have been tense, and the way it was filmed didn't work.

6 hours ago, BartholomewHigginsJones said:

Who are Rey's parents? Oh, they're nobodies.

5 hours ago, LittleDaniel said:

Rey's last name being named 'Kenobi' or whatever would have added absolutely nothing to our understanding of the character, the plot, and is just boring 'hey look everyone you like is here!' bullshit that the prequels was full of.

So why spend so much time about the mystery of her parents? It's built up in The Force Awakens and continued in this movie. It's like if you reshot the movie "Dude Where's My Car?" and the ultimate reveal is that he has a bus pass and he never owned a car. It's one thing to not have a special plan for her destiny but why the fuck pretend that you do if you don't? Bait and switch, very stupid.

6 hours ago, BartholomewHigginsJones said:

What is Snoke's backstory? No, he doesn't have one.....and now he's dead.

5 hours ago, LittleDaniel said:

Snoke's backstory? Its not like the Emperor had a backstory in the original trilogy. And yeah, he's dead now, because him being the big bad for the whole trilogy just like Palpatine was in the original would be a boring retread.

The Emperor didn't need a backstory; he was the Emperor. We learn in the opening crawl of A New Hope that this is a Rebellion against The Empire, and thus, the Emperor, so therefore the entire original trilogy are his backstory until he lands on Death Star The Second. As another example, take Dooku. Well before Dooku shows up on screen we get a ton of diolague that tells us who he was and is, what his motivations are, etc. Snoke... is there. How did he seize power in the First Order? Where did he come from? Where was he in Return Of The Jedi? Snoke is not a character; he's basically an angry lampshade, he's just there to menace and then die. People talk about Darth Maul as a non-entity, but at least he was a badass. Snoke is just an ugly muppet and a stupid one at that.

6 hours ago, BartholomewHigginsJones said:

Here's Luke to save the day at the last minute, except he's just a projection and then he just dies anyway.

5 hours ago, LittleDaniel said:

Luke died.  Yup.  Its not like a character has ever shown up as a force ghost or anything, so I guess there's no chance he could ever appear again.

It doesn't make sense how 1. The sibling who devoted their life to politics and public speaking gets blown out into the vaccuum of space, but is able to use her powers in the force to survive, while 2. The sibling who devoted their life to exploring and expanding their connection to the force projects himself as some form of illusion, then gets tired and lays down for a death. I have no problem with Luke dying, and parts of it were well done, but that is a bit of a head scratcher. Leia should be dead too.

6 hours ago, BartholomewHigginsJones said:

Plus it seemed to force jokes in there too often, just because it works with Marvel movies doesn't mean we have to have everybody be snarky in Star Wars too. The original trilogy had some comedic moments too, but it felt more natural and incidental.

5 hours ago, LittleDaniel said:

Yeah, probably more jokes than the original.  Kay.

This is a legitimate problem. A lot of the jokes feel forced and don't at all fit tonally. It's like watching Discovery and watching The Orville. The Orville would probably be a much better show if they didn't shoot for a Family Guy style joke once every five minutes or so. This movie has way too much edgy, snarky humor, and a lot of it isn't that funny and disrupts the believability of the characters.

6 hours ago, BartholomewHigginsJones said:

Finn's going to sacrifice himself to stop that cannon, no just kidding Rose will save him at the last second because "love"

5 hours ago, LittleDaniel said:

Yeah, I liked the Rose subplot but I didn't particularly care for the conclusion to it.

I think all three of us agreed on this one, which might make it the only point where we all agree.

6 hours ago, BartholomewHigginsJones said:

And as Mark Hamill has said, Luke was just too much of a departure from who he was in the original trilogy.

5 hours ago, LittleDaniel said:

Maybe Hamill didn't like the direction the character went.  I think it was brilliant.

I have mixed feelings. I liked some of the things they did and not others. Way too much comedy on that island.

6 hours ago, BartholomewHigginsJones said:

It was nice that they finally had Leia use the force, but that flying through space bit was pretty cheesy.

5 hours ago, LittleDaniel said:

The space bit was alright, I'm glad we got to see her use the force.

That scene would have had a lot more impact if she had died.

6 hours ago, BartholomewHigginsJones said:

I get Han Solo's death in TFA, Harrison Ford has wanted that for years. But I didn't think they needed to kill of Luke Skywalker too. I can understand why they didn't do it because they didn't want art imitating life with Carrie Fisher, but if anybody would've made sense to die in this one, it would've been Leia. Now they have to use unused footage to bring her back in Episode IX.

5 hours ago, LittleDaniel said:

I want to kill off literally every character from the OT. Fuck them! New trilogy time! (plus, again, force ghosts exist)

I'm fine with killing off characters if it feels right and serves the plot of the story. Not every death in The Last Jedi worked for me.

6 hours ago, BartholomewHigginsJones said:

They spent too much time on the casino planet and not enough time on parts that would've added to the movie more.

5 hours ago, LittleDaniel said:

I really hope that I'm right and the real big bad of the entire series is the war profiteers introduced on the casino planet, otherwise yeah I would've just had the B-plot take place on the First Order ship instead of splitting it up into two locations.

There were some pacing issues and this movie didn't need to be two and a half hours long, and I think if you want to trim some of the fat this would be a good place.

6 hours ago, BartholomewHigginsJones said:

I can understand pushing the future, but it felt like they took the "let the past die, kill it if you have to" a little too literally. There was a way to honor the characters from the past and balance it with the present, but it felt they were pushed to the side too much.

5 hours ago, LittleDaniel said:

Its almost like 'don't let the past die, you need to learn from it' is the theme of the movie or something.

It's almost like you can make your point better if you hire a better writer! I'm listening to someone's review of Wrath Of Khan and thinking how much better one death in Wrath Of Khan is compared to the half dozen in this movie. Even in Force Awakens, I get a little chill when Han yells "Ben!" because I know what's going to happen. Nothing in this movie got that sort of reaction out of me; it was just a mess.

6 hours ago, BartholomewHigginsJones said:

And ultimately, things felt pretty wrapped up at the end. What are we supposed to anticipate in Episode IX? Rey and Kylo fighting again? Kylo and Hux turning on each other? Lando having a bit part? Cameos from Obi Wan, Anakin, Qui Gon maybe? Phasma dying again? That kid at the end being all grown up and ready to be the new Anakin?

5 hours ago, LittleDaniel said:

and yeah, 'what's next' is literally the most unimaginative question ever.  like, okay, you have this neo-nazi little shit who stumbled his way into control of the neo-Empire, killed both his father figures, probably will redeem himself but how will he?  what will happen with the first order, which is pretty much decimated at this point?

Kylo Ren has been the second least interesting character in this movie (apart from Rey Mary Sue, who might as well be the silent protagonist from GTA III for how much growth and depth of character she has (I was so let down by the cave sequence, "I thought I would learn something, but then I was in a mirror, now I am out of the cave, and I learned nothing, I wonder if Luke has even been in a cave?")). There were three interesting things about Kylo Ren, and that was that he was Luke's apprentice, he was Han's son, and he had Revan's face. Well he smashed up his face and he killed Han so it's going to take a lot more heavy lifting from that Luke/Ben relationship to get me to give a shit. As for the political thing, who cares? The republic is decimated, the first order is decimated, decimals are decimated. At the end of Endor the Empire was in disarray. At the start of The Force Awakens, the First Order has risen as a threat. And then between Force Awakens and The Last Jedi, The New Republic has gone from a post-Palpatine galactic government to... five, six ships worth of people? How many worlds did Starkiller base destroy anyway, four or five hundred? What the fuck does it matter what the political situation is when we can just toss it out and start again? The original trilogy had a logical progression. We have hope -> wait no shits fucked -> actually take that you asshole. In the new sequels it sort of feels like hey sorry about that asshole thing surely we can both coexist -> wait like why the fuck are you dogging us like this, what did we even do to you, why is your leader such an angry muppet. There's nothing really interesting or compelling left; Hux is boring, Ren is boring, all the interesting hooks Force Awakens set up seem like decades ago. The Last Jedi was a mess, it was fun, but it wasn't a great movie and it didn't leave really anything interesting for it's inevitable sequel.

[OctoberRaven]

I'm expecting Rey to be born of the force, because she's actually the Chosen One, not Anakin. The Infinity Mirror of Desire didn't show junk traders, it showed her nothing because the Force has no form.

 

Also Snoke is Chewbacca with his fur shaved and the Wookie that's been hanging around Han for the last thirty years is his twin brother Chowbacca. The First Order was his revenge for not getting a medal after the Battle of Yavin.

[Your Mom]

5 hours ago, BartholomewHigginsJones said:

Ok, don't know what you're expecting me to say. I had some criticisms I wish would've been addressed in the movie, maybe it isn't for me. Maybe I was expecting too much. I'm not like some people who will ridiculously deride it for appeasing all the SJW or crap like that. I didn't hate it, I can still watch it and get some enjoyment out of it, its not like the prequels which were just dull and full of terrible dialog.  Its not just that Luke died, its just the way he died didn't do much for me, thought his character deserved a more fitting finale than just disappearing into thin air like Yoda did in ROTJ. I know he can come back as a force ghost in the next one, but just expected a little more to his character arc than what we got. It just didn't tick all the boxes for me is all and some things I wish they had done a little differently, but its whatever.

You sounded like someone ridiculously deriding it for appeasing all the SJW or crap like that. Now this post while I disagree with it I can at least see where you're coming from. I think Rian Johnson is an excellent director but I also kinda agree he was trying too hard to swerve everyone like he was the Star Wars version of Vince Russo. I also agree most of the comedy stuff doesn't land at all.

I think I said right after I saw it that Luke wasn't what I expected or wanted going in but I really liked what they did. I wanted Luke to be the same bad ass I remembered from when I was a kid but man people get old. Life beat him down and the guilt over basically creating Kylo Ren destroyed him. I get that. I still think the way he went out was pretty bad ass though.

Also you guys all agreed but I don't. I thought the Rose saving Finn moment was good. They kept pointing out to Finn that the shit he was about to try had no way of working and he was just going to die for nothing. I know the typical movie thing is the hero finds a way against all odds or whatever but sometimes that's just dumb. He had a dumb plan that would never have worked and it was just suicide for no purpose. Maybe you don't like the love story (honestly not sure about that part either) but she saved him from sacrificing himself for nothing

[Hobo]

Movies With Mikey pretty much sums up my thoughts on TLJ.

[OctoberRaven]

Can we at least all agree that DJ was a great character?

[LittleDaniel]

yeah if you don't find kylo ren interesting i don't think we're going to agree on anything about the movie tbh

 

it probably has something to do with the fact that I don't like the original movies?  so, like, I don't care that these ones are different, in fact I much prefer it.

[Josh]

If anything, I think TLJ may be my favorite of all of them.

[apsham]

TLJ I don't really have any issue with, in fact I guess I don't really think all that much about it at all. It's not a movie that I would ever feel the need to watch again unless there was a button for taking out the dreadfully dull casino sections. Apart from that, I never really had an issue with most of the rest of it.

[Your Mom]

3 hours ago, LittleDaniel said:

yeah if you don't find kylo ren interesting i don't think we're going to agree on anything about the movie tbh

 

it probably has something to do with the fact that I don't like the original movies?  so, like, I don't care that these ones are different, in fact I much prefer it.

You don't like the originals?!? 😮 

[OctoberRaven]

I had a blast when I saw it at theatres (though I had to make a mad dash to the bathroom after... which I can't entirely fault on the movie because the theatre decided to delay the screening by 30 minutes past the scheduled time... last late-night screening I go to)

Also had fun watching it with my dad on Father's Day (originally was gonna see Solo but he wasn't feeling up to it).

ANH will probably always be my favorite but I'd rank TLJ over RotJ and the prequels easily.

[CobraKaiEnTai]

I'd probably rank them, excluding Rogue One and Solo which I haven't seen yet:

1. Empire Strikes Back

2. A New Hope

3. Force Awakens

4. Last Jedi

5. Revenge of the Sith

6. Return of the Jedi

7. Attack of the Clones

8. Phantom Menace

Last Jedi ranking may change after I see how they follow it up with Episode IX.

[OctoberRaven]

Likewise:

1. A New Hope

2. Empire

3. The Force Awakens

4. The Last Jedi

5. Return of the Jedi

6. Revenge of the Sith

7. Attack of the Clones

8. Phantom Menace

[Owen]

I've never watched the prequels, but I enjoyed The Last Jedi. I found myself struggling to follow along with the story in Rogue One, but that's probably just on me. I liked Force Awakens as well.