***spoilers*** UFC News and Discussion Thread

[Rich]

They should have absolutely aired two fights. It's not good for the UFC because in an hour long broadcast, 1:30 of it were the fight. If it were a more spectacular knock out, that would have been good. Instead, after all those months of hype "The Baddest Man on the Planet" looks like a fool. It's UFC's own fault really, they put a ridiculous amount of hype behind Cain, they really should have focused on both fighters instead.

Woah woah woah, it was hardly the UFC's choice about airing two fights, Fox got what Fox asked for. It was Fox who only wanted one fight.

And of course they put the marketing behind Cain, he was the UFC champion, and still is a Latino superstar, the guy is going to still be incredibly popular and could be the way to tap in to the lucrative Latino market, they would have been stupid to not do that.

Also JDS has been very well hyped, he has been heavily featured on the primetime shows and has coached on TUF against Brock, I think you are being incredibly myopic to say that the UFC have not promoted both of the fighters.

[gunnar hendershow]

Said it in the chat, but while the fight had a great KO they really could have used 2 fights on the show. Especially with how good the Guida/Henderson fight was.

Mike Tyson did fine as a PPV draw with a string of quick KOs, so I don't think that this hurts UFC like some of the more casual fans are likely to say. The effects of the UFC on FOX won't be seen until after a few cards are in the books, then we'll see if ratings and PPV revenue increase.

Still though, just a few years ago the idea of UFC in primetime on FOX seemed a pipe dream. Amazed to see it come to this level.

[Noah]

Seeing as we got guida v Henderson, instead of a lot of hype and another fight after the main, I can't say I'm disappointed with how I spent that hour.

[Maxx]

Also JDS has been very well hyped, he has been heavily featured on the primetime shows and has coached on TUF against Brock, I think you are being incredibly myopic to say that the UFC have not promoted both of the fighters.

No, I'm not. You're in the UK. Anyone in the US will back me up here, as we've been sitting through ads for Cain Velasquez "The Baddest Man on the Planet" solidly for the last 3 months. The Cain promos were on several times every Sunday during football games and during the World Series, plus they're on FX during Sons of Anarchy and American Horror Story. Any time there was something really popular on Fox or a Fox owned station, it was promos for Cain, promos for Cain, promos for Cain. So any new viewers who tuned in to see him just watched him get knocked out in a minute by someone they've never heard of, because Junior got no mention besides his name at the end of the ad.

They could very easily have made a promo similar to that for Dos Santos, they didn't. They could have done one hyping the fact that both were undefeated, they didn't. Junior had been promoted heavily on shows that UFC fans watch, they did little to introduce him to a larger audience of first time viewers.

[Meacon Keaton]

I have to admit. I'm not a huge UFC fan, but I've seen tons of ads over the last few weeks. And in those ads, I learned Cain was defending the UFC Heavyweight title, but not who against.

[HailtotheYo]

Also JDS has been very well hyped, he has been heavily featured on the primetime shows and has coached on TUF against Brock, I think you are being incredibly myopic to say that the UFC have not promoted both of the fighters.

No, I'm not. You're in the UK. Anyone in the US will back me up here, as we've been sitting through ads for Cain Velasquez "The Baddest Man on the Planet" solidly for the last 3 months. The Cain promos were on several times every Sunday during football games and during the World Series, plus they're on FX during Sons of Anarchy and American Horror Story. Any time there was something really popular on Fox or a Fox owned station, it was promos for Cain, promos for Cain, promos for Cain. So any new viewers who tuned in to see him just watched him get knocked out in a minute by someone they've never heard of, because Junior got no mention besides his name at the end of the ad.

They could very easily have made a promo similar to that for Dos Santos, they didn't. They could have done one hyping the fact that both were undefeated, they didn't. Junior had been promoted heavily on shows that UFC fans watch, they did little to introduce him to a larger audience of first time viewers.

^ that, all day long. I swear there were 3 of those ads during the last AHS this past Wednesday. The only reason I actually knew who JDS was, was because I have a passive interest in the sport and follow enough to judge whether or not I want to tune in to this "marquee" bouts.

To the point about the quick KO. On a full card, no problem. As a one shot deal to say hello like this was, no problem. However, UFC had better hope that this doesn't happen all too often on these Fox broadcasts. There are plenty of people in the UFC fan base that are the "converts" or the "in between" generation (boxing to MMA). We remember how bad ass PPV boxing was and how absolutely annoying and how much of a turn off it was to tune into :45 second PPVs and the like. A few of those and nobody was left in the Heavyweight division and there was no reason to give a shit anymore. There certainly was no reason to fork over 45 to 55 bucks for it.

I'm not saying one night on Fox has put them in this category ... but I had deja vu when I turned in tonight.

[Benjamin]

Wait, they didn't show any of the prelims after the quick KO?

[Rich]

Wait, they didn't show any of the prelims after the quick KO?

No, Fox only wanted to show one fight and one fight only.

This article sums up how I feel about the broadcast.

Also, look at the people who jumped in to the thread after the fight, it was not the usual EWB MMA crowd, I think it shows people were tuning in and the overall success of this card will be measured by its number, but long term, this will not have hurt the UFC, its just not helped them as much as it could have.

Also apparently 60 million Brazilians watched the fight out of a population of 200 million. This is growing the sport internationally as well as domestically in the US and Canada. I have a feeling within the next 18 to 24 months we could be seeing a huge stadium show in Brazil.

[Walker]

When Hendo/Guida got shown on the UK feed I thought Dana had the plan of only airing the co-main event if it delivered, or he had it as back-up and demanded it got aired as soon as it turned out to be fantastic. As it turns out, FOX got half an hour of hype followed by a 64 second knock out and then I'm not sure what - so I can see why people might be annoyed by that.

It definitely doesn't hurt UFC though. It is definitely less effective than if they had a multi-round war, but this is a sport, you can't control the outcome. People are still going to see their friends and say: "Wow, did you see Cain Velasques get knocked the fuck out?"

[Quom]

Anyone know when the next Fox show will be? I know it's not this year as this was a special deal type thing outside of their agreement. I guess it's impossible to call an audible when you are on a major television station, but I really feel they missed a trick somehow not finding a way to show what looks to be the fight of the year. Especially since it was only seen by international fans or those watching the prelims on Facebook. It strikes me as being a really raw deal to do this sort of shit to the lighter weight fighters. For all of the jumping up and down Dana does about how exciting the little guys are, he certainly shows them absolutely no respect. I'm not going to compare Henderson and Guida to either Overeem or Lesnar. But it's a touch shit when you are giving away bantamweight title fights on television (with fuck all hype), and burying lightweight contender fights on the prelims.

I get that there is data showing that they don't draw the buys that the heavier weight-classes do, but I'd question how that's going to change when they aren't given countdown shows, time on PPV or television (figures on the split of weight-classes put on as prelims fights rather than on the main card shows that the lighter you are the more likely you are to be on prelims) nor are the shows which feature main events featuring lighter guys hyped with the same fervour as the heavier guys. It's a real chicken and the egg type scenario. I don't understand the belief which seems to be prevalent in The UFC that a fight needs a finish to be exciting. To me the lighter guys repeatedly have shown to put on the more exciting fights. Especially a fighter like Henderson who had some of the most exciting fights of all time in WEC. I think if Dana put the same emphasis on the lighter classes that he does the larger ones he could expand his business quite easily. Without needing to be on this worldwide expansion kick (not that I think that's a bad idea, I just can't see why you wouldn't do something that should be far easier at the same time, or years ago).

Also I don't care if Dana was acting in the role of an analyst or not. You do not bury your current champion and insult your previous champion. It's bad business. To sell it as if your previous champion came in with the wrong game plan makes it seem as if your sport is still in its infancy, especially when it seems all of your advertising for the show was focussed around him. I mean, fighter A had a shit game plan and should have known better, but really fighter B got a lucky punch in doesn't do anything but bury your own business, especially when you have spent weeks jumping up and down and talking about how the heavyweights are the pinnacle of the sport.

Coming in to the night Dana couldn't know what was going to happen. It was also necessary to introduce the sport to new people, I just don't know that the face of the company should have been the man to do it if he was going to be blunt in his views of the fight. If you are going to compromise and allow your product to be presented like every other show that's on the network, then you really need to act the same as the people in charge of other organisations. You don't see David Stern at the end of a basketball game sat in a chair telling people that Team A should have done X and Team B got lucky. It's burying your own product and silly. It should have been a five minute rant about how it's the most exciting sport on earth because anything can happen and how no champion is safe no matter how skilled because there are so many ways to win a fight, so every fight is must see, you can never take your eyes off the fights for a second and how these are the most well rounded athletes on the face of the earth.

It certainly wasn't a failure, but I do think some big mistakes were made. One was Fox's by backing themselves into a corner in regards to only showing one fight. The other was Dana's, for failing to capitalise on the chance to spin it into a positive instead of burying the top two fighters in his pet division. I can't imagine he'll be a happy chappy when he wakes up tomorrow. Hopefully it becomes a good argument to Fox for why it's necessary to have more than one fight booked for a one hour show.

[SeanDMan]

As has been said multiple times in this thread, Fox wanted one fight, and this is the fight they got. This wasn't Dana sitting backstage saying "FUCK THEM. Shoot those midgets out of a fucking cannon!", this was Fox saying "We only want one fight".

UFC on Spike used to air tons of prelims on the main show when the main card fights were short. It was Fox's decision to have them talk for half an hour, not Dana being disrespectful.

[Quom]

As has been said multiple times in this thread, Fox wanted one fight, and this is the fight they got. This wasn't Dana sitting backstage saying "FUCK THEM. Shoot those midgets out of a fucking cannon!", this was Fox saying "We only want one fight".

UFC on Spike used to air tons of prelims on the main show when the main card fights were short. It was Fox's decision to have them talk for half an hour, not Dana being disrespectful.

That's what I wrote :/

I said that Dana fucked up by burying his fighters

and Fox fucked up by not showing more than one fight.

My other point was that Dana fucked over himself, the business and his lighter fighters by having the (potential) fight of the year not shown on a broadcast easily viewable to most. Guida vs. Henderson always had the potential for what it delivered. I think if you had them fight five times you'd get a great/excellent fight three of them at least. I would have pulled the fight, put it on the next PPV and swapped it for another fight (like Ortiz vs. Nog which is coming up). I guess the issue is that because the lighter guys haven't been given a chance to shine they have lower contracts than mid-level guys in 'more popular' weight classes so even though they are established names they are a good way to pad out an event without costing a ton.

[SeanDMan]

I take issue with the idea of Dana burying his fighters (as an analyst I won't argue with you, but in terms of what makes it to TV).

Dana talks about it there, he says "It's a huge fucking fight" and that it "just happened" to wind up, timing wise, ending up on this show where "Fox only wants one fight".

This wasn't Dana putting the smaller guys in the doghouse.

UFC's last card was headlined by middleweights. The one before, welterweights. UFC's next pay per view is headlined by lightheavyweights. Then the finale to Ultimate Fighter, with a middlweight bout booked to the be the secondary main event. UFC 140 is lightheavyweights.

This one show happened to have 100% heavyweight fights. This will never happen again. Stop panicking.

[Rich]

Also Henderson vs Guida is not fight of the year, the Maynard vs Edgar Mainevent from January was much better and I would argue their second fight later in the year was more exciting as well. Bendo and Guida had a great fight, but nto a FOTY in my opinion.

Also GSP has had more primetime shows than anyone and he is at 170, Diaz and BJ was made to be a bigger deal than it had any right to be and on top of that Edgar vs Henderson will most likely headline the UFC's return to Japan. How is this not all very positive for the UFC and the lighter weight fighters? I mean you can hardly expect the 135 and 145 divisions to be drawing huge it has not even been a year since they came across from the WEC, give it a couple of years and there will be a couple of more marquee fights been thrown out by those division.

[OctoberRaven]

You forgot to mention that the last title fight on free TV was a Batamweight title match, but yeah, there's no way this is going to repeat.

But at least the fight that we did see was still more worthwhile than all the fights in Strikeforce's last CBS showing combined.

[Quom]

It's Lightweight and below who are considered 'small', well at least it is when analysts compare exposure between weight classes (basically because before any of their fights or during Goldy and Rogan go on about how exciting they are and basically feel the need to shill that they are equal/exciting). The best story I read on the topic was on Bloodyelbow or MMAmania where someone had gone through which fights were shown on which show/PPV/prelims since the new weight classes were added. It also had figures breaking down the percentage of fights finished by each weight class and in which round during this period. So it was well researched and quite telling. I think it was published around the time of Cruz/Johnson fight.

[Rich]

But again, the lighter weight guys have only been in the UFC for 10 and a half months, you can't expect them to be up there straight away, the Heavyweight division has been around for 15 years in the UFC, the 135 and 145 less than one.

[Quom]

Also Henderson vs Guida is not fight of the year, the Maynard vs Edgar Mainevent from January was much better and I would argue their second fight later in the year was more exciting as well. Bendo and Guida had a great fight, but nto a FOTY in my opinion.

I actually preferred this fight, but it's close. If it was five rounds it would have been more easily comparable. I generally prefer back and forth the whole way through. But yeah, I'll concede that most would likely go for Maynard vs Edgar.

You forgot to mention that the last title fight on free TV was a Batamweight title match, but yeah, there's no way this is going to repeat.

There's a massive difference between Fox and Versus. There is also a massive difference in the amount of hype/advertising between the two events. I'm not talking about by Fox. It seemed leading up to the Johnson vs Cruz fight all of the advertising was for Jackson vs Jones (which was on the week prior) then jumped straight to Maynard vs Edgar which was on two weeks later.

[Quom]

But again, the lighter weight guys have only been in the UFC for 10 and a half months, you can't expect them to be up there straight away, the Heavyweight division has been around for 15 years in the UFC, the 135 and 145 less than one.

I don't know how they are going to progress unless they are given equal treatment though. I'd like to say lightweights have it equally as bad. Only four lightweight championship fights haven't had another title on the line on the same show, or featured a hyped 'superfight' (Couture vs Toney and A. Silva vs. Griffin). The basic view seems to be that the small guys can't sell PPV's on their own and need propping up. Unfortunately it seems to hold true. But again I'd question if this perception isn't reinforced by 'protecting' the lighter guys by stacking cards where they main events as it takes attention away from them.

[Benjamin]

I actually thought it was smart to put the Bantamweight belt on Versus. Aren't the audiences for free TV bigger than for PPV or something. This way, Cruz (the least known champ) would get the most amount of exposure possible.