The Emirates FA Cup 2018/19

[FLiam]

United at home?

But José doesn't work there anymore! 

[Hobo]

14 hours ago, Adam es Tranquilo said:

Liverpool deservedly out, Anfield was my preferred destination in the draw.

You've won one trophy in what, 12 and a half years? And you play that team in the cup. Pretty poor really, don't care if you are top of the Premier League at the moment.

That's the FA Cup' s problem in general these days though. It's not as important to Premier League probably even top Championship clubs.

It's just sort of this thing you have to do January and maybe longer that only becomes important if you get to the semis. 

[Baddar]

I can understand not taking the League Cup seriously. It's even more midweek matches for teams playing in Europe, and teams in the FL often have to play league matches on a Tuesday night. But the FA Cup, replays aside, takes place instead of league matches over a weekend, so it's a competition everyone can have a good crack at.

I think it's mostly down to managers wanting to give their squad players game time more than not caring about the competition, but one poor game can cost you. The FA Cup is very winnable for a side like Liverpool, and them going out last night will only be justified if they win the league or CL in May. When you aren't winning trophies, not giving it your all in comps that you should be challenging for won't go down well.

[DavidMarrio]

19 minutes ago, Baddar said:

I can understand not taking the League Cup seriously. It's even more midweek matches for teams playing in Europe, and teams in the FL often have to play league matches on a Tuesday night. But the FA Cup, replays aside, takes place instead of league matches over a weekend, so it's a competition everyone can have a good crack at.

I think it's mostly down to managers wanting to give their squad players game time more than not caring about the competition, but one poor game can cost you. The FA Cup is very winnable for a side like Liverpool, and them going out last night will only be justified if they win the league or CL in May. When you aren't winning trophies, not giving it your all in comps that you should be challenging for won't go down well.

Hindsight is great. But at this time we are 4 points clear with our best chance of winning the league with the first team we have. I don't blame Jurgen for the team selection and had we have won no one would bat an eye lid. What if we got knocked out in the 4th or 5th round would there still be the same reaction? 

Last season I was miffed we didn't really do anything in the domestic cups but we also managed to secure top 4 again and get to a Champions League final that season. I would class that as a good season for us based on the context of where the club was at. 

Whether we win or don't win the title, depending on how we do in Europe I again would class that as a successful season as we will have closed the gap and been competitive with City who have the squad they have with and the money they have. 

Don't get me wrong I want to win everything but at this time I'm just bothered about challenging for the title and advancing in the Champions League. I was not bothered before the game yesterday about the FA Cup... if we didn't have our first game in January then maybe it'd be different as we wouldn't have already played 20 odd league games and be in the position we are in. 

[Adam]

Baddar is spot on for me.

I was thinking last night, the FA need to find a better way to incentivise the competition. I was never for the "Champions League spot for a winner" thing but maybe that could be it, or just a substantial increase in prize money. The money on offer is lucrative at this stage for clubs like us and Oldham, but we'll always be motivated to get this far by the prospect of facing the big boys. To any PL team, the prize money is negligible and I believe never really hits the levels you get for even finishing last in the top flight these days.

Look at the difference between Liverpool and Spurs, two sides with managers doing a good job but yet to win a trophy in charge. Poch plays Alli, Son and co against a L2 side and they win 7-0...Klopp plays loads of kids against a PL team and deservedly gets beat.

Even City played a pretty strong side only days after the Liverpool game...and they also won 7-0. There's no excuse for Liverpool's team selection in my opinion.

[FLiam]

Honestly I think the best way to "save" the FA Cup is to get rid of the league cup. 

It frees up time earlier on in the season so that a couple of league games can be played, thus reducing the Christmas schedule a bit which in turn leaves teams not having to play the 3rd Round of the FA Cup at least with a completely knackered squad.

Aren't we one of the only leagues in Europe (out of the bigger leagues) with two cup competitions? And that's not including the others that lower football league teams compete in.

The suggestion of giving the FA Cup winners a Champion's League place, in my opinion at least, is a garbage idea.

[DavidMarrio]

4 minutes ago, Adam es Tranquilo said:

Baddar is spot on for me.

I was thinking last night, the FA need to find a better way to incentivise the competition. I was never for the "Champions League spot for a winner" thing but maybe that could be it, or just a substantial increase in prize money. The money on offer is lucrative at this stage for clubs like us and Oldham, but we'll always be motivated to get this far by the prospect of facing the big boys. To any PL team, the prize money is negligible and I believe never really hits the levels you get for even finishing last in the top flight these days.

Look at the difference between Liverpool and Spurs, two sides with managers doing a good job but yet to win a trophy in charge. Poch plays Alli, Son and co against a L2 side and they win 7-0...Klopp plays loads of kids against a PL team and deservedly gets beat.

Even City played a pretty strong side only days after the Liverpool game...and they also won 7-0. There's no excuse for Liverpool's team selection in my opinion.

Noted youngsters: Mignolet, Lovren, Fabinho, Moreno, Milner, Keita, Shaqiri, Sturridge and Origi. 

City have the squad depth they have. Not every team has the luxury of spending a small countries GDP on full backs. They can play strong teams no matter how many people they rotate. At centre back atm we don't have that luxury as Gomez and Matip are injured (I imagine Matip and Lovren would have started if we had no injuries) Centre mid we do have depth and they played shite. Keita and Milner had bad games last night  

We've been to three cup finals under Klopp and lost them. Two European finals and a domestic final. Not won them but still three finals. More than a lot of managers can say or teams for that matter. 

We played shit and deserved to get beat. No one is making excuses. Better team won. But at the same time we rotated and it was obvious that the 11 who started haven't played regularly as a team. End of the day I'm not losing sleep on it, and I imagine a lot of fans and the club aren't either again based on where we are atm. 

Unfortunately and I agree the FA Cup has no incentive for Prem teams. For fans, the cups do and for lower league teams but look at the likes of teams fighting for survival. Are they bothered about getting knocked out in then 3rd round? Not really. If it means any sort of advantage in helping to survive. 

 

[MDK]

6 minutes ago, Liam Mk2 said:

Honestly I think the best way to "save" the FA Cup is to get rid of the league cup. 

Or just make it EFL teams.

 

7 minutes ago, Liam Mk2 said:

Aren't we one of the only leagues in Europe (out of the bigger leagues) with two cup competitions? And that's not including the others that lower football league teams compete in.

Hey, the French Cup is insane. You could be playing your away games in Tahiti.

[Adam]

Fair points there Dave.

Liam, I believe it is just us and France yes. I have long felt it would be better to make the EFL Cup just for EFL teams, and scrap the Checkatrade since they've ruined that beyond repair.

[Naitch]

34 minutes ago, Liam Mk2 said:

The suggestion of giving the FA Cup winners a Champion's League place, in my opinion at least, is a garbage idea.

Makes a million times more sense than fourth place getting a guaranteed Champion's League group stage spot.

[Hobo]

I do think the FA Cup lacks a lot of incentive for bigger clubs. You can earn more from finishing bottom of the Premier League than winning the FA Cup (or from winning the Championship and getting promoted).  When you win it, you get into the Europa League. That's not really appealing to a team that can finish 4th and get into the champions league.

Yeah, they get a trophy and a trophy is nice but Arsenal won the FA Cup a few times recently and didn't seem to launch them any further in other competitions. I can't say I would turn my nose up at winning a domestic trophy but at the same I think all current English cup competitions are in a strange place right now where it's kinda hard to care about them too much.

I honestly got the sense that nobody was that arsed from either Liverpool or Wolves for most of the match last night.  Wolves have maybe as good a chance as anyone to go far and possibly win the thing. I'd kinda like them to as well rather than seeing another top 6 Premier League side win. Which is probably what'll happen.

[FLiam]

As much as people say the FA Cup has "lost its magic, I still think FA Cup final day is fucking brilliant as a supporter when your team is in it. 

That feeling has never gone for me. 

[DavidMarrio]

1 minute ago, Liam Mk2 said:

As much as people say the FA Cup has "lost its magic, I still think FA Cup final day is fucking brilliant as a supporter when your team is in it. 

That feeling has never gone for me. 

The only time it affected my opinion on it was when I went to Wembley for the final against Chelsea when Dalglish was in charge and I was subjected to a Hard-Fi concert. 

[Adam]

The magic of the FA Cup is alive and well but the beauty of it is in the small teams fighting famous sides and winning out. By the time you get to the latter stages that's usually done with and it's the same old teams facing off and leaving half their first team out.

[Molly]

 

1 hour ago, Adam es Tranquilo said:

Fair points there Dave.

Liam, I believe it is just us and France yes. I have long felt it would be better to make the EFL Cup just for EFL teams, and scrap the Checkatrade since they've ruined that beyond repair.

Combine the French League and English League Cups and only have them open to lower league teams from both countries.

 

 

 

Edited January 8, 2019 by Molly

[Adam]

No thanks, I don't really fancy Chateauroux away on a Tuesday night.

[DFF]

How about: 

• Abolish the EFL Trophy
• Remove Prem teams from the League Cup (essentially making it the EFL trophy with added Championship sides)
• Give the eventual League Cup winner a bye to the 5th Round of the next season's FA Cup
• Move the Europa League spot currently given to the League Cup winner to the FA Cup Runner-up, meaning both FA Cup finalists make the Europa League, not just the winners. 

[DavidMarrio]

Bring back the intertoto cup...  but with English teams. 

[Adam]

2 hours ago, DFF said:

How about: 

• Give the eventual League Cup winner a bye to the 5th Round of the next season's FA Cup
• Move the Europa League spot currently given to the League Cup winner to the FA Cup Runner-up, meaning both FA Cup finalists make the Europa League, not just the winners. 

I really do not like either of those. The first one I don't think is even workable due to how the tournament is structured, you would have to alter literally every round right from the Preliminary Round in August to make that work. The EFL Cup winner in this scenario should just get a good amount of prize money. Winning a trophy and getting a day out at Wembley is more than enough for these sides.

The last one isn't too bad I suppose, but I don't feel like it would do enough. If anything, having the EFL Cup be without the PL teams could create a more reasonable way to make the FA Cup winners a Champions League spot.

[Matt]

Champions League spots have to go through the league. UEFA rules. 

 

All your starting 11 must've been in the match day squad for your most recent game. There problem solved.