NFL 2023

[Lineker]

 

[LL!]

34 minutes ago, Busch Wyatt said:

It would be hilarious if Russ filed a grievance with the union.  Honestly I wouldn’t blame him.  The trade sucked and he was one of the worst QBs in football last year and in the first month this year.  But that doesn’t mean he’s not getting screwed in this instance.  Multiple things can be true.

Probably goes without saying that the union frowns upon teams deliberately curbing playing time to avoid bonuses or incentives.  Teams who do this have to cite other reasons.

Undoubtedly the Broncos’ official communications will all be “we’re 1-3 in our last 4, may as well try to shake it up” while ignoring that Russ has quietly been playing well for over a month now and these losses are mostly due to the defense being ass.

Oh and they’re still mathematically alive for the playoffs, even though the Pats loss made those chances far more slim.  So the Broncos would have to sit in front of an arbiter and explain why Stidham is a better play than Russ while avoiding bringing up the aspect of money, which everyone and their brother knows is the real reason they’re doing this.

Russ and Payton don’t seem to get along anyway so that would make it a more entertaining trainwreck.  Come on Russ, file that grievance!

The punishment for a successful grievance play should be that Sean Payton is forced to replace Mike McCarthy as Cowboys head coach. 

A harsh punishment, but I understand why it needed to be done. 😔

[Krabby]

1 hour ago, Lineker said:

 

What's the deal with this - he like almost messed up the wording of the coin toss answer and is now suspended?

[Szumi]

1 hour ago, Krabby said:

What's the deal with this - he like almost messed up the wording of the coin toss answer and is now suspended?

He was not even supposed to be out there for the coin toss, is the big issue.

[The Buscher]

I can’t help but think he might retire after this year.  He’s always been a fiery guy on the sidelines but he seems angry/unhappy nearly every time they cut to him.  Nagging injuries probably mounting, slowing him down a bit.  Maybe the Swift relationship has him thinking more about life after football.

Jason too probably.  Nearly retired this year.  Kelce brothers going out together would be fitting, both have HOF spots locked up and their podcast is popular enough to give them something to do in retirement.

[gunnar hendershow]

I swung by the grocery store today and his face was everywhere in the chips aisle (I think it was Doritos. I'm boring and don't eat chips usually.) They've made a really successful brand for themselves as brothers and individuals - Travis nationally whereas Jason is a sports god for life in Philadelphia. I think Jason was ready to retire last year but losing in the Super Bowl is a brutal way to go out. I think regardless of where Philly's season ends he's done, it's so much work to get ready for and go through a season that it's no wonder players retire even while they're still really good.

Travis maybe plays another year because I don't think he wants to go out with a season quite like this. But that cliff is looming and maybe he could convert into a late career catching TE where he's not out there to block and is just running routes for longevity, but that would require a lot of multi-TE sets which I can't envision KC wants to do with Mahomes at QB.

[LL!]

2 hours ago, gunnar hendershow said:

I swung by the grocery store today and his face was everywhere in the chips aisle (I think it was Doritos. I'm boring and don't eat chips usually.) They've made a really successful brand for themselves as brothers and individuals - Travis nationally whereas Jason is a sports god for life in Philadelphia. I think Jason was ready to retire last year but losing in the Super Bowl is a brutal way to go out. I think regardless of where Philly's season ends he's done, it's so much work to get ready for and go through a season that it's no wonder players retire even while they're still really good.

Travis maybe plays another year because I don't think he wants to go out with a season quite like this. But that cliff is looming and maybe he could convert into a late career catching TE where he's not out there to block and is just running routes for longevity, but that would require a lot of multi-TE sets which I can't envision KC wants to do with Mahomes at QB.

Honestly, all they would really need are some legit wide receiver weapons and Travis could take it easy. It astonishes me that all they've had to this point is Tyreek Hill. You have to wonder that someone like Davante Adams or Amari Cooper is chomping at the bit to play in Kansas City knowing it would make all the difference. I don't get why they can't seem to give Mahomes a couple of more weapons while Rashee Rice develops. 

[Lineker]

Gates should be a lock.

[DMN in the House]

Devin Hester is the only name on that list that I personally feel should be a lock. Maybe Peppers and Anderson too.

Holt, Johnson, and Wayne are second tier WRs (they all played at the same time as Moss, TO, Megatron, and Marvin Harrison), imo, and will go in but are helped by inflated passing numbers.

Gates will go in, but I think that there's been a number of TEs who've come after him and are better (Gronk/Kelce/Kittle) and he was probably only the second or third best TE (behind Tony Gonzalez and Jason Witten) of his era.

I don't think anyone else (outside of Gradishar, who I think Bronco fans have been pushing for years, but I don't know too much about him and might be confusing him with someone else) is really that deserving. Darren Woodson is the third best Woodson to play DB in the NFL but he's far, far behind Chuck and Rod.

Steve McMichael belongs in the WWE HOF, but I'm not sure he belongs in the NFL HOF.

[The Buscher]

RE Gradishar, McMichael, Parker, and Powell...they're essentially all locks.  The Senior/Contributor/Special Committee finalists almost never get turned away.  They already had to go through a lengthy nominee process just to get to that point to be the final candidates for their group.  The voters don't have to debate them like they do with the modern era guys - it's a simple yes or no majority vote and with all the due diligence already done to whittle down the finalists there's really no reason they'd ever say no.  Only person from one of those committees I can remember getting rejected was Tagliabue who the writers wanted to send a message for his CTE negligence, but then they simply put him through a year or two later.

The Modern Era guys can go in a million directions.  Just guessing I'd say Jared Allen, Willie Anderson, Antonio Gates, Devin Hester, and Torry Holt but you really never know what direction the wind will be blowing with the voters.

[gunnar hendershow]

I think Willie Anderson is the most lock of all given how voters love putting in offensive linemen. Gates and Holt feel like guys you have to get in soon or they're going to be waiting a long time as statistically better players all start getting on the ballot. Historically voters don't care about that though. Jared Allen and Julius Peppers probably both go in, doesn't make sense to try and pick one over the other.

[The Buscher]

As I've said for a few years I'd love to be a fly on the wall in the HOF debate room when Eli is eligible, which he is next year.  The modern era HOF QBs go in first ballot a lot more than they don't with Warner being the one somewhat recent exemption.  2 Super Bowl MVPs feels like the kind of thing that would make you a lock on its own especially with that old adage "if you can't tell the story of the NFL without him, he belongs in the HOF".

Finishing his career top 10 in the accumulating stats + the iron man streak + the Manning legacy clout/bias + NY bias all play into his favor.  But there are a lot of writers who won't overlook him only having a .500 career record as a starter, everyone knows the team around him was a dumpster fire but the idea of course is a HOF-level QB should elevate mediocre/bad teams.  Objectively he was never a top 5 QB in the league even at his peak and solidly outside of the top 10 for a good chunk of his career.

My best guess is that yes, he'll go in immediately.  But if he doesn't he's not likely to go in until 2026 at the earliest.  Brees is a surefire 2025 lock.  Rivers is eligible in 2025 as well and if the committee were to take a 2nd QB it's a matter of deciding what matters more between Eli's rings or Rivers' better statline and better consistency with team results.  If they turn Eli down the first time because of his .500 record they'd likely opt for Rivers in that case.  If he's not in by 2026 he might just never go in as Roethlisberger and Brady will be in subsequent classes and at a certain point the bar might just be moved too high for him to go in under the current structure.  Might be a Senior Committee guy like Stabler years down the line.

[GhostMachine]

5 hours ago, DMN in the House said:

Devin Hester is the only name on that list that I personally feel should be a lock. Maybe Peppers and Anderson too.

Holt, Johnson, and Wayne are second tier WRs (they all played at the same time as Moss, TO, Megatron, and Marvin Harrison), imo, and will go in but are helped by inflated passing numbers.

Gates will go in, but I think that there's been a number of TEs who've come after him and are better (Gronk/Kelce/Kittle) and he was probably only the second or third best TE (behind Tony Gonzalez and Jason Witten) of his era.

I don't think anyone else (outside of Gradishar, who I think Bronco fans have been pushing for years, but I don't know too much about him and might be confusing him with someone else) is really that deserving. Darren Woodson is the third best Woodson to play DB in the NFL but he's far, far behind Chuck and Rod.

Steve McMichael belongs in the WWE HOF, but I'm not sure he belongs in the NFL HOF.

Peppers and Gates should be a lock. Your argument is that Gates was the third best TE behind Gonzalez and Witten doesn't hold water, since Gonzalez is the GOAT, and Witten is all-time top 5. 

Agree with you about Woodson and McMichael.

[Maxx]

45 minutes ago, Busch Wyatt said:

As I've said for a few years I'd love to be a fly on the wall in the HOF debate room when Eli is eligible, which he is next year.  The modern era HOF QBs go in first ballot a lot more than they don't with Warner being the one somewhat recent exemption.  2 Super Bowl MVPs feels like the kind of thing that would make you a lock on its own especially with that old adage "if you can't tell the story of the NFL without him, he belongs in the HOF".

Finishing his career top 10 in the accumulating stats + the iron man streak + the Manning legacy clout/bias + NY bias all play into his favor.  But there are a lot of writers who won't overlook him only having a .500 career record as a starter, everyone knows the team around him was a dumpster fire but the idea of course is a HOF-level QB should elevate mediocre/bad teams.  Objectively he was never a top 5 QB in the league even at his peak and solidly outside of the top 10 for a good chunk of his career.

My best guess is that yes, he'll go in immediately.  But if he doesn't he's not likely to go in until 2026 at the earliest.  Brees is a surefire 2025 lock.  Rivers is eligible in 2025 as well and if the committee were to take a 2nd QB it's a matter of deciding what matters more between Eli's rings or Rivers' better statline and better consistency with team results.  If they turn Eli down the first time because of his .500 record they'd likely opt for Rivers in that case.  If he's not in by 2026 he might just never go in as Roethlisberger and Brady will be in subsequent classes and at a certain point the bar might just be moved too high for him to go in under the current structure.  Might be a Senior Committee guy like Stabler years down the line.

Rivers isn’t going in over Eli.  Rivers probably isn’t going in at all.

[GhostMachine]

Rivers might eventually be a Hall of Famer. If he's selected by the Seniors Committee 20+ years down the road, that is. Being an 8 time Pro Bowler doesn't get you into the Hall, and the Chargers only made it to the AFC Championship game with him once.

 

[Your Mom]

Hester better get in this time!  

[Lineker]

4 hours ago, Maxx said:

Rivers isn’t going in over Eli.  Rivers probably isn’t going in at all.

Won't someone please think of his children!

 

[Krabby]

He should have started the last two games tbh

[Lineker]

 

[DMN in the House]

6 hours ago, GhostMachine said:

Peppers and Gates should be a lock. Your argument is that Gates was the third best TE behind Gonzalez and Witten doesn't hold water, since Gonzalez is the GOAT, and Witten is all-time top 5. 

Agree with you about Woodson and McMichael.

Gonzalez is either second or third, depending on if you care about stats and receiving ability, in which case Kelce is ahead of him, or if you care about those things while also being a great blocker (which is what I believe), in which case Gronk is pretty clearly the best TE ever.

Witten isn't really close to top 5 all-time, and might not even make my top 10. In no order I'd take all the following TEs before Witten without really even having to think about it.

Gronk
Gonzalez
Kelce
Dave Caspar
Shannon Sharpe
Gates
Kittle
Kellen Winslow Sr

Which puts Witten 9th, at best, and that's without me even really thinking about it, and now that I am I might take Dwight Clark and Mark Andrews over him too. Wait, I forgot Mike Ditka, he's better than Witten, too, so Jason is falling faster than he did once he caught the ball at the first down marker.

6 hours ago, Maxx said:

Rivers isn’t going in over Eli.  Rivers probably isn’t going in at all.

Eli belongs in. I understand, even if I don't agree with, the argument against Jim Plunkett being in, despite winning two Super Bowls (he wasn't a 'franchise qb' type starter for the Raiders and, other than the two title runs does not belong int he Hall), and, sure, you could argue that Eli doesn't really belong outside of those two Super Bowl runs, but more than one ring as the starting QB is, traditionally, enough to get you in the Hall.

Rivers does not deserve to be in. Neither does Matt Ryan, or any of the non-title winning QBs of the last decade and a half, IMO. You aren't Dan Marino, it's gonna take more than counting stats at this point. It's the same issue as WR, where second and third tier WRs have much, much better stats than much, much better players from the past.